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Craig007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

But if the person doing the moderating is incapable of understanding, then it simply doesn't work.

Perception comes up again.

And I doubt the police sit outside everyones house with laser sound device in their hands.

I think I'll stop arguing now, to prevent myself from getting banned Rolling Eyes

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Slightlyoutofit
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

deleted

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TheGreatOok
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JMRazor wrote:
And you are correct. If you state something in public about your intent (or having actually done so) to break the rules at Eater, and we learn of it, we will act. We're protecting Eater and its membership, not looking to "spy" or play "Gotcha!". The means of communication is what is irrelevant to the issue; the conduct is very relevant.

If you were to tell your neighbor while standing on your lawn about your intent to blow up the local church, and a police officer happens to drive by and hear you, well tough luck.

A chatroom is not somehow a "protected" environment that immunizes anyone from anything. Not sure why this would come as a surprise to some people.


Almost a good analogy, JMR. Let me make it more to the situation. You are in a group who have invited police to the group. Other members told you they invited police and pointed out who the police were. Then a few weeks later you announce to the group that you are in the process of blowing up the church and have set a few preliminary explosives. After you are arrested, you feign ignorance about knowing the police were there.

My question in this case is, does the presence of police or not make this a crime or not?

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Goldry Bluszco
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ If this was any other thread it would now be locked for going off topic....

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Nurse Nasty
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

craig007 wrote:
I think I'll stop arguing now, to prevent myself from getting banned Rolling Eyes


No mate. You actually have to do something really, really, really dumb for that.

So we've moved onto skype chat and strange analogies involving police and lasers. Cool. Let me grab the popcorn.

@ Ook, at the risk of sounding odd, I think if you stood up and announced that with cops in any room, they'd probably stop you. Maybe beat you with a truncheon and then throw in a wagon.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^Couldn't make 24 hours, you are becoming weak.

Some people like getting beat with a truncheon also.....

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Simba
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Goldry Bluszco wrote:
^^^ If this was any other thread it would now be locked for going off topic....


Thats possibly true, but the accusation is that the Mods have become 'trigger happy' with censorship.
We cannot lock a debate thread about censorship can we... Very Happy

Of course there is a degree of censorship on Eater, the question is do we have the overall balance right?

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Nurse Nasty
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We don't really censor, so you can pretty much say [deleted] with a giant [deleted] bear trap. I could even offer the suggestion that Ook has [deleted] [deleted] [deleted] of the bovine persuasion, while most others here [deleted] and [deleted] and [deleted] in their own [deleted] - We're developing a balance so you [deleted] [deleted] feel like you've been [deleted] [deleted] with a rusty pipe. No-one wants any of you [deleted] to feel [deleted].

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TheGreatOok
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^I thought you said you sold me all those [deleted] [deleted]. You also promised not to mention [deleted] [deleted] [deleted]. I want my money back!

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The Man
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

okay I have resisted posting in this thread for however long it has been going on, at least after the OP was actually taken care of, but I cannot resist now.

The question is not if Eater has the right to censor. It clearly does. This is a baiting forum, if someone started discussions about knitting and that became the dominate theme most of us here today would leave. Rover/Shiver don't want that. They want a forum about baiting.

Further most Western countries have something akin to the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution, which states:

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Interestingly the first word of that amendment is CONGRESS. So it says the government shall make no law....

Rover/Shiver/Admins/Mods != government/congress.

As a citizen I have the right to shout you down and refuse to listen to what you have to say. It may be rude or boorish behavior, but I am not violating the first amendment.

Now with that said, the real question is if the moderation here is acceptable. I don't think it is of any moment that it has changed or has not changed from the past. There is no question it has changed (for example cash baiting was a topic openly discussed WAY in the past) over time. Whether it has changed in the time frame the posters in this thread are discussing is something I am not sure I can put my finger on directly.

What I can tell you is simply saying "it has changed, I don't like it" is not very constructive. Saying we used to be able to discuss "A" with no problem, now those posts are locked/deleted would be constructive. Discussion could then ensue as to the benefit of both sides of that argument.

I am not suggesting that I am siding with the Mods in this case or the "loyal opposition" and I certainly do not want to see anyone leave eater over this kind of debate. What I am trying to point out is without a concrete discussion of "A" had changed we are just talking about perception and people's perception can differ.

I can state from my perspective I enjoy mine time at eater because for the most part it is simply about baiting and there is not this on going debate about some "hot button" topic like politics. But on the other hand we can discuss many other topics in the "general" category and if I have some obscure question about some non-baiting related topic I am going to get some reasoned answers from some very smart people... and some snarky comments from some very smart people, both of which are appreciated.

So my bottom line? I think this debate is healthy, but has probably run its course unless someone has a concrete example that can be discussed.

/just my $0.02 which is worth about nothing now since the US Economy is in the doldrums.

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luckey
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ook: Fair enough. Here you go:

Image

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bill2
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
the question is do we have the overall balance right?

How can we know, it's gone when I get there Laughing And only the OP will be pissed as he knows what was written there.(+ a few fast answers)

So we have to trust that you guys (the moderators) do what best is for eater and yes, you have to step on toes sometimes to do that. When I know I'm walking the line, I report myself, just to find out where that line exactly goes and that differs from Mod to Mod as they are only human. Personal preference will play some role in that, but as other mods review/advice I don't think that it will be that bad. One way to make it any better and thus more complicated is to have a second forum/group of members(could be mods) check the deleted posts if the OP requests it. And to make it fool proof, a third supreme forum for the final decision. That reminds me of something Laughing
A message of mine has been hovering in the mod forum for a few days until it was approved, which makes me think that they do their best to be fair (I'm definitely not the most popular member here after the Fokker story) The best thing, I have no clue what message that was, that's how important it was Rolling Eyes
No it's no fun being corrected or when your message is deleted, but then, we're only members, for free or not(your choice) and they provide the platform where we can talk/compare/boast/and have fun so it's normal that they control it the way they see fit to keep the site up and running, growing and away from trouble that might endanger the site or even the hobby.

Hell, if you really think that your opinion, reply, message is that important you're probably in the wrong forum anyway. The rest is just crushed ego and that heals pretty fast usually.

EDIT: Mods, you can remove this message if needed, You won't hear a peep from me LOL_sign

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Goldry Bluszco
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Simba - that was my point... Smile

My only point, that has been ignored incidentally, was that the Olympics thread was over modded. Just my opinion.

It is annoying when posts dissapear and no reason is given. I just posted something in the football thread (it is about football) that is a link to a very funny video. If you need to move it, please do so.

{EDIT} - the first post sounded even worse than this one.

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Last edited by Goldry Bluszco on Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

May I be in the top 4? Shocked

I'm honored Embarassed

EDIT: and then I realize that there were 8 pages, and I thought only 1...

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TheGreatOok
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@Luckey - Thank you very much, I truly appreciate it.

Quote:
One way to make it any better and thus more complicated is to have a second forum/group of members(could be mods) check the deleted posts if the OP requests it. And to make it fool proof, a third supreme forum for the final decision.


Bill what is it do you think mods do? They are selected by admin to be this group. They are chosen for a reason. They are given the power to delete posts because admin trusts their judgment. What you are suggesting is making mods for the mods, there is no end to this as you pointed out. You can just keep complaining that each group is biased setting up more and more groups, until nothing is ever done. Yes that is taking the argument to the absurdity but where do you think red tape comes from? The system may not be perfect but it works. Members are guests here, this is the Administration's house. We have to abide by their rules and admin has the right to change the rules.

Honestly this whole argument is ridiculous. It is also still speciest more rights need to be given to the other great apes!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

TheGreatOok wrote:
What you are suggesting is making mods for the mods, there is no end to this as you pointed out. You can just keep complaining that each group is biased setting up more and more groups, until nothing is ever done. Yes that is taking the argument to the absurdity but where do you think red tape comes from? The system may not be perfect but it works.


HMMM That sounds like how government works. Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

bill2 wrote:
One way to make it any better and thus more complicated is to have a second forum/group of members(could be mods) check the deleted posts if the OP requests it.


With the exception of spam, double posts, etc, deleted posts are reviewed by the mod/admin team whether the OP requests it or not. Initial decisions are made by individual moderators, but if there is disagreement, we discuss it and adjust as required.

As far as I know, we do not delete posts without giving the OP an explanation. Very often, they are given an opportunity to re-post within guidelines.

Most of the active members here, especially the ones who have been here a while, know full well what should and shouldn't be posted. Running a marginal post past a moderator is a great way to confirm if a post is within guidelines.

The persistent notion that we randomly and arbitrarily delete posts is simply false. If that seems to have happened, PM a mod and we'll try to sort out what happened.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
but then, we're only members, for free or not(your choice) and they provide the platform where we can talk/compare/boast/and have fun so it's normal that they control it the way they see fit to keep the site up and running, growing and away from trouble that might endanger the site or even the hobby.

That's the line that gives them the rights to do what ever they think is needed. Nobody holds a gun on you and makes you login here. Wink
And yes the admin will pick the ones that are closest to his ideas and why not, he is in the end responsible for the whole show

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think Goldry Bluszco, harry bawls and Craig provided good examples. Slightly tried to ride the coat tails of Craig's post so, by accident, he made a good post as well. As Slightly's Oga I will be punishing him for this.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The reason that Skype Chat is irrelevant to me is because it is simply the medium used to communicate.
If members here decide to break Eater guidelines/rules, it is irrelevant if they communicate together in PM, email, telephone, gmail chat, AIM, or skype chat.
If members choose to conduct themselves in a way that directly affects Eater it is our business. If members communicate their desire and/or plan to do so in a way that is available to Moderators, such as skype chat, it is unreasonable to say that Mods are moderating skype chat, or snooping and sneaking.
We could really care less what is said in Skype chat, as long as it doesn't affect Eater. If it does affect Eater and we become aware of it, we will get involved.

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Professor So And So
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the whole Skype chat thing is pretty retarded, personally. I know for sure that this particular version of it wasn't started up in order for people to have a launchpad of idiocy in some sort of "private" arena. It was started (kept alive) in order to have a place for baiters/site-killers to have a place to shoot the shit without cluttering the boards, or trying to do it in a lame PWT.

It's actually a good way for members to get to know each other, and also a way to get immediate assistance with a phone call, or site-killing help (or to rail on each other). There are some participants with incredible knowledge on all aspects of what we do here at Eater, and I think it's a good thing to have around.

If I would have thought that there was shit going to go down in there that would lead to people feeling like the mods are suspicious/creepy for reading it, I wouldn't have added them and announced their presence. In fact, I wouldn't have originally named it "The Unofficial Eater Chat" either. I would have named it - "It's a private chat with no mods in it, fuckwits" and then I can see people having a gripe if they caught some flak over being seen plotting to do dumb shit on the boards.

Start that chat up, but keep the idiocy out of the other one. I was pretty damn annoyed by all of that, and I really don't think anyone has a leg to stand on when they whine about how they were treated because of it.

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Radden
** SUSPENDED **


Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1267


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I was the one that got the Skype Eater Chat Room started and I never said it was the official one see here. I wanted a place for us to chat outside of Eater, but it was never endorsed by 419eater.com. Anything that is said on that chat has a chance to be brought back to this website and the mod's and admin's have the full say in what to do with that member.

Since I am not involved with the "new" skype chatroom (if that's even still going), I'm sure the same rules apply. When I first started my chatroom, I recall even having a mod being a room host (or co-host) but my memory might be wrong because I'm so very old Laughing .. so basically anything said on that chat was a free-for-all live chat, but with the understanding that you could be subjected to the jackboot (Very Happy) of the mods and admins here.

Everything I basically said above was most likely said in this topic, but I really don't have the time to read it.

Does Harry Bawls still give you guys trouble? I'll hire a hit-man to take care of that problem Wink.
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Harry Bawls
Elite Baiter


Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 1310
Location: Somewhere, nowhere, everywhere


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Radden wrote:
Does Harry Bawls still give you guys trouble? I'll take care of that problem Wink.


That's what JMR thought too.............











Laughing
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JMRazor
Baiting Guru


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 7103
Location: Yes


PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I work slowly but surely my friend. Wink

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Tsnerd
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 41


PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I posted several pages back, originally, but deleted it because other calmer voices posted.

Those calm posts have been ignored, so screw diplomacy, since a few of you just don't feel like climbing off your soap boxes.

Grow the fuck up or just leave.

We have grown tired of the shit stirring.

Stop your whining, crying crap; stop momming and popping us; stop posting things just to get a reaction, and then complaining about the reaction you get.

Eater will still be here. We're on Exodus VI (I think, haven't bothered counting) and your absence isn't going to hurt anything.

Two months from now, unless you troll, you'll just be forgotten, regardless how wonderful you thought you were.

This is a baiting board and we allow a general chat- I'm one of the ones that supports it being kept.

It can easily go away.

I don't care about your silly Skype thing- chat all you want. I've never been there and never will go there. I will say this:

Any member here that participates in that, and posts racist posts or goes after another member, we'll hear about.

Badgering or racist crap that I hear about, regardless where it is, I'll request banning.

Eater is about baiting and education. If you've forgotten that and allowed your head to swell, you need to rethink things.

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