2 questions from a newbie

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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:28 pm

Nailgunner wrote:

robbed of some sort of tangible asset

Nailgunner wrote:

photographs, forms for fake churches, countless fake documents.

Anything you get sent is a tangible asset. The value may make a difference as to whether (a) anyone bothers to investigate and/or prosecute (b) anyone thinks you've been dishonest but it makes no difference to the legal principle. If you have obtained it by fraud, it matters not whether it's a banner worth £2 or an amazing carving you could flog on Ebay for 200 times that.

Nailgunner wrote:

no court in the world will ever convict you, if it ever went to court, which it won't.

Much more likely to be true, but even so, there are no guarantees. Smile

Not quite a Newb Joined: 30 Jul 2008 Posts: 27

I know it sometimes takes people awhile to get things done, didnt mean to sound impatient or anything, so far I think im doing ok (the guys already frustrated at me but still talking to me) so yeah one would be nice but when its convenient Very Happy

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:30 pm

For what its worth, and it may or may not be the legal view.
My definition of fraud is the act of deception with the objective to make material gains.

We don't have the objective of making a profit from the unsuspecting.
Thats not what we do here...!!

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:35 pm

Cowboyup wrote:

I know it sometimes takes people awhile to get things done, didnt mean to sound impatient or anything,

As I posted in this thread, until a mentor is assigned to you, please feel free to post your questions in the Scambaiting Help forum. You will receive help. Very Happy

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:41 pm

I nearly got scammed - twice. By love lads. These lowlifes prey on the loneliness and desperation of women purely for the purpose of taking money from them. Women - and men, too - who have been scammed of thousands of dollars by love lads liken it to being emotionally raped.

My motivation in baiting love lads is to keep them busy with me so they are scamming one less lonely woman. The messes these scammers get into - safaris, etc. - are purely due to their own greed and disregard for the feelings and property of others. They simply don't care that the woman is sending them her retirement savings, or that the man has taken a second mortgage on his house in order to bring the love of his life to be with him.

If the opportunity to send one of my lads on a safari opens up, I will send him with no remorse. Because I know his motivation in going is to get money for which he has told ridiculous lies and made promises he has absolutely no intention of keeping. He has no other motivation. He has no conscience. I have a conscience, but I also have a sense of fairness that tells me what I am doing to him is (1) legal and (2) only what he deserves and has brought upon himself.

My definition of "fraud" is taking from someone by devious means something to which they are entitled. What are these lads entitled to? Not my admiration, that's for sure. A little taste of what they put their victims through? Very possibly. Although I'm afraid it does nothing to make them into model citizens, it at least curtails their thieving ways for the time.

Sorry - I didn't mean to go on like this - I guess I'm more passionate about scammers than I realized. Embarassed

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:10 am

Wait a minute here.... did somebody say that what we do (misleading statements, not-quite-truths and blatant lying over the internet) is actually illegal? Shocked

Man am I in trouble! I'll deal with my scammers later, but just in case the FIB are in the room, allow me to clarify a few of the statements I've made here over the past few weeks.

- I'm not actually good looking.
- I don't really have a PHD in BS. There's no such thing.
- Two days ago, in the elevator, that was me.
- My nunchuku is actually made of paper mache.
- No, I didn't actually jam with Eddie Van Halen last week.
- I know exactly how fast I was going.
- I'm married. To a woman.
- I'm shamefully under-endowed.
- I've never actually been the sultan of Croatia.
- I did inhale.
- I was lying when I said "I wasn't looking at her butt".
- Heather Locklear has never actually been to my house.

That should cover me pretty good for now. Boy, confession really is good for the soul! You'd think that somebody here could have told me that cyber-BS was against the law before I started baiting. If anybody needs me I'll be burning my hard-drive and pouring bleach on my keyboard.

(yes, it was a joke)

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:19 am

You forgot to add that you baited me too. I am so ashamed. Embarassed

Elite Baiter Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 1269

juliette wrote:

Whether victims are part of the fraud is not an easy question.

It is in my book. Victims are always "part of the fraud". They're the ones being scammed. Their role is different sometimes. If somebody's new internet boyfriend needs BTA money to get out of Nigeria, they are often a love scam victim. But if a lad recruits somebody to cash fake checks for them, they are an (unknowing) accomplice.

juliette wrote:

if you would place (someone masked as) an elderly lady on an unsafe street specifically for the purpose of her attracting muggers so that you could whack them, it would be clearly illegal.

That sounds to me like a sting operation. There's nothing wrong with that.

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:35 am

Very interesting discussion.

I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but I've been doing this long enough to know that no one has ever been prosecuted for baiting a scammer.

First, the scammer isn't going to call up law enforcement and say, "Some joker was stringing me along while I was trying to con him out of five thousand dollars!" I have heard of them threatening victims with legal action for wanting to back out, but has anyone been arrested for baiting? No.

Second. Let's say that someone does get into legal trouble for this. Is a prosecutor going to take this to trial? The county's head district attorney would likely be voted out of office (we elect them in the U.S.).

Third......would a prosecutor be able to find a jury that's going to convict? I've heard of crazy things before but things are not that bad. Not yet, anyway.

I'm one of those who favors a discussion like this, if only for the sake of putting the issue to rest for the benefit of those who haven't been around very long.

Welcome to the Eater, juliette, and you too cowboy! Please stick around.

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:23 am

Shewho must be obeyedboppe wrote:

You forgot to add that you baited me too.

That was not a bait! I have a well-known weakness for beautiful girls, and there was no deception involved when I said I wanted to get your name tattooed on my chest.

Even if lying (even lying to a criminal who makes his living by lying) over the internet is a crime, I still think we're pretty safe from the FIB for at least a few more weeks. If they ever start putting our baiting names on their most wanted list, we'll know they've already caught all the murderers, terrorists, rapists, child-predators, false advertisers, thieves, fugitives, bank robbers, drug dealers, pimps, rap artists, unlicenced hairdressers, doodle-dashers, shoplifters, arms dealers, fraud artists, spammers, and cigarette smugglers there are to catch. Something tells me there's a pretty long line ahead of us though.

For the record, when I discussed this very topic with 2 guys from the RCMP's Phonebusters unit, I wasn't arrested. Laughed at and told to be careful, but not arrested. And I'm pretty sure fraud is against the law in my country. Very Happy

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:27 pm

So far, I've successfully avoided these discussions, but:

juliette wrote:

But after a quick search it seems the same applies to US law: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fraud

Which states:

Quote:

A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury.

There's is nothing in my actions which intends anyone to act upon them to her or his legal injury. As matter of face, it is quite the opposite!! I am quite ready to redress any opposing parties arguments to the opposite!

...welcome, bait safe and have fun!

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:59 pm

I should have listened - but I thought I knew better Sad

Quote:

WARNING: failure to produce the above requirement in the next 48 hours, legal action will be taken immediately by arresting and detaining you, justificated and if found guilty, you will be jailed. As terrorism, drug trafficking and money laundering is a serious problem in our community today. The F.B.I will not stop at any length in tracking down and prosecuting any criminal who indulge in this criminal act. FORWARD THE DOCUMENT TO US VIA EMAIL ATTACHEMENT AS SOON AS YOU OBTAIN IT.

Jail ? - wel maybe I can take a hundred year stretch - but please don't let them justificate Shocked

me.

"not stop at any length" - does that mean they're going to test my car's brakes too ? Geesh - they really are mean. They're going to give me a ticket too. Very Happy

They'll never take me alive. Laughing

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:15 pm

In the UK, the relevant offence is obtaining money by deception, which certainly covers all lad activities, and I would think cash baiting.
I'm curently baiting a hitlad. He's trying to extort $50 from what he thinks is a 10 year old girl.
Which wouldn't get him much sympathy if he complained to the local police about being baited.

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:00 am

^^^^^ Hahahahaa! Thumbs up

Master Baiter Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 123

interesting discussion. Personally, i havent really thought much about whether baiting lads is, strictly speaking, legal or not. What I do know is that no court in my country (UK) would convict me of an offence for partaking in a hobby that deliberately sets out to stop vulnerable people from being robbed.

I dont think scambaiting would fall under the category of fraud, but the scammers we are baiting are certainly commiting an offence when they tell us that they have $45,000,000 to give us if we can only send them a few thousand pounds through western union

As others have said, it really is just a case of doing whatever you are comfortable with. I'm no lawyer, so i'm not going to state categorically that scambaiting is definetly legal (although i think it is). I'm just certain that no court would ever convict someone who is simply trying to prevent others from being robbed so, as a result, i am happy to proceed. If you feel that it might technically be illegal, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with deciding you dont want to be a baiter.

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