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 SP moves to Ubuntu Linux, and help question, please

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Scam Patroller
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have had a bad few days, firstly, all my websites vanished due to a server failure at the webhosts, managed to back all my site files up before it happened, phewwww, got them all saved to my Windows ME desktop, the following day, the ME desktop decided to bite the dust as well Crying or Very sad Mad, I then had to visit each page of my sites individually using my laptop and save everything yet again, all sites are working again.

A bit of luck, my mum gave me a hardly used since new, Windows 98 desktop recently, but it was only 64MB RAM and was not sufficient to run my BT Broadband on, as that requires a minimum of 128MB RAM and Windows 98SE , not thinking it would work, I took 2 of the memory sticks out the now broken ME machine and stuck them in the 98 machine, at first, it gave me a horrible lime green screen with wobbly lines on it, but after swapping the 3 memory sticks to different slots several times, it finally worked, booted up normally and showed 256MB RAM on this machine.

Then I needed to install Windows 98SE so I could get online, I have an 98SE disk, except the computer was telling me it was Windows 98 and not SE Confused, so, I decided to throw in my old Ubuntu Linux CD that I got about 4 years ago, I had read that some people get problems connecting to the internet, but after plugging the USB from the BT Home Hub in to the computer during the Ubuntu installation, as soon as it was installed, I hit the FireFox button and it was online, this is my first post using Linux Cool

My first question so far is, I prefer to use Opera browser, and downloaded Opera 9.50 for Linux, which saved to my desktop, normally, on Windows machines, I simply double click the .exe file and it will run the installation, that doesn't happen on Ubuntu when I click the opera.exe file, how do I get it to install the Opera browser?

Also, is there something on here like the "my computer" button on Windows desktops? Where I can see what RAM and how much hard drive space I have?

[edit]

I think I'll have to get Ubuntu to send me their latest release, there are no security updates for my version from 4 years or so ago:

Quote:
Your distribution is no longer supported

Please upgrade to a newer version of Ubuntu Linux. The version you are running will no longer get security fixes or other critical updates. Please see http://www.ubuntulinux.org for upgrade information.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

hi. I've been using ubunty for some years now and it's far and away my first choice for day-to-day stuff.

Upgrading: Ubuntu can be downloaded from http://www.ubuntu.com/GetUbuntu/download . this will get you 8.04, the latest long term support release. If you can download the .ISO and write it back it to a CDR you're laughing. Canonical will post you a disk but I'm told they take ages. If you're really stuck getting it onto a CDR for any reason, PM me and I'll burn a copy and post it to you.

Opera - The easiest way to install software in ubuntu is using Synaptic: (System - Administration - Synaptic package manager). search for what you're after and hit "go". it collects software data from a number of known repositories which by and large are of good quality. I can't find Opera among them unfortunately, so this may be a manual install if you feel you really need it. This will take some care... Ubuntu's well worth using though. If you're using old hardware, disable all the eye candy and dt effects for performance. Good luck Smile

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Nailgunner wrote:
I can't find Opera among them unfortunately, so this may be a manual install if you feel you really need it.


Any idea how to install Opera manually? I'm not a fan of FireFox and the version I have on here is ancient, it's version 1.0.2 Laughing, I have tried importing my faves list from an html file on desktop, but the FireFox option to import appears to be knackered Mad

I'll order a new CD from Ubuntu, not in any rush to update it, this will do me for the time being.

[edit]

Ubuntu is pissing me off already, downloaded the latest version of FireFox, went to the synaptic package manager and can't find it listed anywhere to install it, I though Liniux was supposed to be simplified, a double click in Windows and it's done, but Linux is a pain in the arse, it can't even find downloaded stuff to install Rolling Eyes

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Shemp
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Whoa, slow down just a little bit...

First and foremost, software management is different with Linux. Typically you don't download programs and double click to install in Linux.

With most major distros, you would install software packages from their own repositories through the synaptic package manager. This prevents "dependency hell" and other breakage.

It's actually easier this way than it is in Windows. You can read more about this at the Ubuntu FAQ (Sorry no link).

Disclaimer... I use PCLinuxOS.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Shemp wrote:
It's actually easier this way than it is in Windows.


The package manager is of no use to me at all, there is nothing in there that I need, infact, there is nothing in there that I have heard of before, unless it's called FireFox or Open office, apart from those, never heard of the listed stuff and don't need it.

I can't understand how it's easier to use the synaptic package manager if there is nothing there that is of use to me, no FireFox 3.0 that I downloaded, it only lists the version 1.0.2, nothing else, and they don't mention opera at all even though i downloaded it, so how does that make it easy? All it does it makes it a pain in the arse, I have an old browser that can't be changed, I have favourites to import but the current old browser won't let me import them, it won't let me install with a simple double click like Windows does, that's not making things easy, it's bloody stupid and annoying.

Quote:

With most major distros, you would install software packages from their own repositories through the synaptic package manager. This prevents "dependency hell" and other breakage.


Again, they have no repository for Opera, which is what I need, they do have FireFox, but only the old version listed, can someone please explain to me how you are supposed to get anything to download, or if you can't download stuff unless it's listed in Ubuntu's bloody manager, what are you supposed to do, I thought all this open source stuff was about giving people choice, damn, it's no better than Windows, more restrictive if anything, at least with Windows i would have been completely set up with browser and favourites imported in about 3 minutes.

Ok, simple question for Ubuntu users, if you wanted to install an Opera browser on your machine, how do you do it, bearing in mind you are not allwoed to download it and it's not listed in the synaptic manager, it must be simple, right? Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

With all due respect... Very Happy

You're going through what EVERY new Linux user goes through when experimenting for the first time... As you would do to the lads, you must de-educate yourself about the Microsoft ways of doing things.

Now, your main issue as I see it. You have a very old version of Ubuntu. (5.10 or 6.04 maybe?). Of course you can't install FF3 on it. Do you really think you can install it on Win3.1 (or Win 95)? This analogy holds very true. FF3 will never work on your version of Ubuntu as the kernel and libraries required to run it have advanced and improved while a 3 year old OS has not. Most linux distros have a shelf life of 18 months or so until they must be re-installed with a newer version. (Rolling upgrade distros are another matter. PCLOS cough cough).

If you could download and install the newest version (8.04) you would have more software than you could ever want. The added bonus is that it's all free.

As another analogy;

Ubuntu 6.04 -> 8.04 is similar to Win3.1 -> WinXP

Patience grasshopper, the final rewards are worth the short term learning pain...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Shemp wrote:
Now, your main issue as I see it. You have a very old version of Ubuntu. (5.10 or 6.04 maybe?).


Yes, mine is very old, it's Ubuntu version 5.04

So basically, I am knackered until I can get a new Ubuntu installation disk sent to me, oh well, it's back to using the Vista laptop until a disk turns up, it took something like 6-8 weeks for disks to arrive last time.

Now I need to buy a usb keyboard and mouse for the laptop as it drives me mad using the laptops mouse pad and right/left click buttons, it's so slow moving the cursor across the screen and it's a pain when trying to edit webpages in particular.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ I concur

It's exactly what I did.

My guess is that your old Ubuntu doesn't have its package manager aimed at the new repositories anyway, and the old ones may be dead or no longer maintained. You need to get the latest OS version first, and all will be well.

i thought of another way to do this: system - administration - update manager, hit "check for updates". It should look for an OS upgrade. I'm not sure if you need to install sequential OS upgrades, but try it and see.
Save everything you want to a flash drive first, just in case.

Alternatively, any internet-worthy computer with a CD-R drive can make you a new Ubuntu disk and you can bomb it flat and start over with a nice clean sheet. you'll need to be able to write from an ISO disk image, a tiny bit of software called burnatonce will do this from Windows.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ nailgunner, I checked for that earlier in my first post, it said:

Quote:
Your distribution is no longer supported

Please upgrade to a newer version of Ubuntu Linux. The version you are running will no longer get security fixes or other critical updates. Please see http://www.ubuntulinux.org for upgrade information.


I can't do the ISO thing, I tried burning stuff like that before, but couldn't work it out, the only option is to have the CD sent to me, I'll try and find the ordering page now.

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Last edited by Scam Patroller on Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

ah, ok, old enough not to get any updates .. that's pretty old. I think i first started using Ubuntu around 5.0 ... that was a while ago.

the disk offer still stands, I'll send it to a drop box if you'd prefer to maintain double-blind security. Eight weeks is a long time to wait for anything these days.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for the offer of sending it, but I'm not in any particular rush, I just ordered the disk from Ubuntu:

Quote:
Request accepted. Please note that requests usually take from 4 to 6 weeks to deliver, depending on the country of shipping.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ Ooops, faster fingers than me...

Scam Patroller wrote:
So basically, I am knackered until I can get a new Ubuntu installation disk sent to me, oh well, it's back to using the Vista laptop until a disk turns up, it took something like 6-8 weeks for disks to arrive last time.


Is there NOBODY in the UK that could download it and mail it to you? That would take a lot less than 8 weeks. Very Happy

I just did that with my distro on this side of the pond.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

edit: ^^ yes, me Smile Canonical must use real slow pigeons.

Another alternative is find your nearest Linux User Group and see if anyone there has a spare install disk floating around, there's bound to be someone who can drop one round on their way to/from somewhere. They really, really like people starting using Linux and take an almost evangelical approach to recruiting n00bs.

More than one way to skin a cat...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Try this if you have time.

http://www.download.com/Active-ISO-Burner/3000-2646_4-10602452.html?tag=lst-1&cdlPid=10792184

Free ISO burner for CD's that you download.

Also for an older computer you might want to take a look at puppy linux. It's a distro optimized for older hardware. I use it on P3 class machines and it works great.

Puppy is over at http://www.puppylinux.org/

Then if you wanted to come up with a list of software you wanted to get running I'm sure people here will be able to help out.

Cheers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm planning to move to Linux too, but I'm going for Kubuntu. Have it downloading at the moment.

I've had nothing but grief from Vista since I first lay hands on it, but this time the computer decided to blow up just when my exams are over and I'm willing to spend the time to learn something new.

I expect I'll have a few tears and tantums over the coming weeks, but I hope it's got to be better in the long run.

I'll still have my laptop infected with Vista, sadly: I need to be able to run from time to time one particular program that doesn't seem to run on Wine.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ginger Head wrote:
I'm planning to move to Linux too, but I'm going for Kubuntu.


Just my biased 2 cents (pence?) here on this statement. Kubuntu neuters KDE to be almost useless. If you want a KDE distro, i would recommend one of the following;

1> OpenSuse (install KDE 3.5.9 NOT 4.1 Beta)
2> Mandriva
3> PCLinuxOS

As always, have fun...

Shemp
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I've played around with the live cd that I used to save the day one of the other times windows went pop and I like the look of it.

I'm not that much of a techno geek so I'd probably never notice the difference between things that are much of a likeness.

Plus, everything's blue, and one of the other live cds I used to rescue stuff from a hard disk with a screwed vista before was mainly green. I prefer blue... Smile This is the level of my decision making process I'm afraid!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Stoker Thompson wrote:
Try this if you have time.

http://www.download.com/Active-ISO-Burner/3000-2646_4-10602452.html?tag=lst-1&cdlPid=10792184


@ Stoker, yes, but how are you supposed to install it, it downloads to desktop as IsoBurner-Setup.exe, but double clicking doesn't work, box pops up saying:

Quote:
Couldn't display "/home/linuxbox/Desktop/IsoBurner-Setup.exe".

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

.exe files are for Windows machines.

If you're running a linux computer and try to open a .exe file it'll cough politely and just not do it.

if your laptop runs Vista this may be your best bet if it has a CDR drive (since it has Vista I'm assuming it has a CDR drive).

Alternatively download the Ubuntu 8 ISO image to your Linux machine, right click on it and select "open with CD/DVD creator" - I think, having looked into it, that 5.04 had this capability.

then just write to a CD from there (assuming your linux box has a CDR drive)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

You can run PC programs (some) using wine but that's getting a little more technical. I'd have a browse over at the ubuntu forums http://ubuntuforums.org/ they should be able to help you out with anything if the question hasn't already been answered. I'd also agree with shemp, Mandriva is an excellent KDE distro.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@SP, I've had a bit of a checkered past trying to get linux up and running on my computer.
If you look out for a copy of Linux User magazine they always have a full up to date distro of one type or another on their cover disk. Most let you try them from dvd first. You can install it if you like the look.

Could be worth a look if you're having problems burning a distro to disk.
http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Coverdisks are an excellent option, if you don't have anyone willing to download and burn a CD/DVD. (Uh, does your laptop have a DVD drive?)

Scam Patroller wrote:
Where I can see what RAM and how much hard drive space I have?

Open a terminal. Type
Code:
free -k

and press enter. The free memory is displayed in kilobytes.
Type
Code:
df -h

and you'll see the amount of space used in each partition and various other places. The -h switch tells df to print the space in human readable format (e.g., 1K, 234M, 2G). You are looking for the HD available to you, which will be at the mount point /home

The *nixes have manual pages for each command available to you. For example,
Code:
man df

will tell you everything you want to know about df. Now, how would you know how to look for a command like "df" in the first place?

Each manual page has a Name section, like "df - report file system disk space usage". And someone created a program for reading those sections called apropos. So if you are looking for editor, you'd type
Code:
apropos editor|less

and the system should happily print several editors like ed, emacs, pico, nano, vim etc etc etc. The pipe | mark there passes the output to the next program (in this case less) so that you can read the text one screen at a time. Quit less by pressing q.

Read the online forums, use Google and borrow some books from the library.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ok, I'm going to try installing "Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Desktop Edition", I have downloaded InfraRecorder on my laptop, erased a 700MB disk that I found, the InfraRecorder is now burning the Ubuntu download file to the disk, I assume it's then just a case of putting that disk in this old desktop, go through the set up and that's it?

[edit]

Ubuntu now burned to disk, I'm going to turn this machine off and put the disk in, lets see if it worked properly Very Happy

[edit]

Disk inserted and Ubuntu currenty installing, fingers crossed for no errors during it, step 1 of 7 starting now.

[edit]

Bollox, knew it was going to well, put all my details in, then started installing, just checked it and there is an error Mad:

Quote:
Failed to copy files; faulty CD/DVD or hard disk?

The installer encountered an error copying files to the hrd disk

[Errno 5] Input/output error

This particular error is often due to a faulty CD/DVD disk or drive, or a faulty hard disk. It may help to clean the CD/DVD, to burn the CD/DVD at a lower speed, to clean the CD/DVD drive lens (cleaning kits are often available from electronics suppliers), to check whether the hard disk is old and in need of replacement, or to move the system to a cooler enviroment


As the older Ubuntu installed alright, it can't be the hard disk, so it must be a damaged DVD, it is fairly old and isn't in pristine condition, I'll give it a wipe and try again, failing that, I'll have to buy a new DVD and try again in the week.

[another edit]

Now I'm confused, I closed the pop up error box and then desktop loaded, which is the new Ubuntu version and has FireFox version 3 on it, which connects to the internet, so, if there was an error during installation, why is it working Confused What should I do now, use it as is or what Confused I noted when the error box closed that in install bar was on 24%, so it must not have installed a lot of stuff, so I kmight get errors if try to do certain things, now it wont eject the CD for me to clean it.

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Nailgunner
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

oh dear. hmm.

if the CD drive is playing up check the power connections to it.

try a software eject: places - CD drive - right click, eject.

failing that use the emergency paperclip method to open the drive.

If i were you I'd use a brand new CD-R for this - U-8 will fit on a CD-R and read reliability is a lot better. Cheaper too.

While you're there run up a Knoppix disk, this is a good KDE based distro that runs straight off the CD and can mount, analyse and shred hard drives (when told to Wink ). keep it safe as it's very, very useful on occasion - like getting an internet connection up from a computer with no hard drive, or recovering data from a drive that's half dead and won't boot, or a corrupted Windows partition, etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I loaded Ubuntu on the d-partition on my laptop. It runs no problem, but won't detect the wireless so I can't get internet connection.
That's the problem I've always come unstuck on when trying to get Linux working on any of my computers.
I've never managed to get eithernet, USB or wireless working.

It's obviously possible but defeats me every time. Sad

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