This is sad, really

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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:48 am

Man, this is sad.

I had a chat with a scammer. It was so depressing reading his replies. I was pretty abusive at first, then I found out he had a degree, was married, had a son...we started talking about ethics and philosophy for Pete's sake.

I do not understand these people. I really don't.

These guys, born and raised in an environment with a completely different set of ethics, really do think that what they are doing is morally acceptable. I am a very open-minded person in regards to culture and philosophies, and I can understand people's views easily. Though I'm opinionated I can appreciate polar opposite mindsets. Yet...this is so contradictory.

After our hour-long chat, he said he needed to go to bed and we parted like friends do..."peace" and "talk with you later".

I'm too emotional. Yet this chat has caused me to think about things differently. I'm not going to be quite so belligerent from now on, unless they deserve it. Twisted Evil

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:00 am

It amazes me that you would believe anything that a scammer tells you. They are so entrenched in their scamming and their lies to cover it up and pull their scams off that they will tell you whatever you want to hear. Many scammers say that they have degrees and were or are married, blah, blah ad nausea. They say anything to justify their crimes.

You are a scammer's dream - gullible and easily pulled into his world. Why do you want to bait them if you believe that they are just innocent people that are down on their luck?

You having sympathy for a scammer makes me wonder about other things. Confused

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:12 am

No lad hugging please. That area is a shithole but there are still other ways to make an honest living. Even if they're on the internet, straight out begging, with no promises of any return, they're still better in my book than a scammer.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:34 am

Quote:

These guys, born and raised in an environment with a completely different set of ethics, really do think that what they are doing is morally acceptable.

Lads mostly claim to be Christian. Ask him to quote the bible passage where stealing someone's money is justified. I haven't found it yet.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:44 am

Lads lie. About anything and everything. The talented ones quickly find just the right buttons to press, just the right things to say to elicit sympathy, or charity, or to provoke greed. Take anything and everything he said with mountains of salt. He found your button.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:55 am

Steam, try contacting him as a different persona, and see if he tries to scam you.
I'm betting he will, and maybe you'll feel less sympathy for him.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:00 am

~ Steam,

Thay aren't "dumb" or "idiots", they are criminals who scam people out of thousands of dollars for a job. I have (in RL) talked to some real intelligent criminals. They can talk the logs off of a chair, yet they choose to follow a life of crime. Charm is real disarmig and works well for criminals/scammers.

Steam also wrote:

I do not understand these people. I really don't.

They take money that they did not earn from people who are gullible. Ours is not to understand, but to confound and keep busy so that they are not taking advantage of victims.

Steam wrote:

These guys, born and raised in an environment with a completely different set of ethics, really do think that what they are doing is morally acceptable. I am a very open-minded person in regards to culture and philosophies, and I can understand people's views easily. Though I'm opinionated I can appreciate polar opposite mindsets. Yet...this is so contradictory.

I can show you a whole raft of the "underworld" where things that normal people would easily see as abhorrent, yet it is every day for them, so it is "normal" for them. There is a danger with being too open minded. Aware, yes, open minded enough to say that as long as there is a reason any behavior is justified is REALLY dangerous. Scammers have made a career out of taking advantage of other people. We try to slow their effectiveness down.

Steam wrote:

After our hour-long chat, he said he needed to go to bed and we parted like friends do..."peace" and "talk with you later".

This means he needed to move on to another maga (mark/fool) because you were not going to pay out YET. He was just setting his hook into you psyche. He is skilled at what he does and found what will work to get to you. I really suggest that you get a Mentor! If you have one, please talk to him or her and get some perspective.

Steam wrote:

I'm too emotional.

Yes, and this scammer knows how to work people's emotions. They are masters at getting into your emotional hot buttons and putting them on overload. It is how they steal for a living. He will be back knocking at our door with his hat in one hand and his other hand will be reaching for your bank account. Scammers love emotional people as opposed to rational people. Hang on because he WILL be asking for money.

Steam wrote:

Yet this chat has caused me to think about things differently. I'm not going to be quite so belligerent from now on, unless they deserve it. Twisted Evil

Sooo, you are going to be gullible? You don't have to be belligerent to bait. You just have to know what the stakes are and how the game is "played". Scammers are not looking for friends. They are looking for stooges that they can drain their resources (emotional and financial), then they move on to the next "nice person" who will fall for their trap.

Talking to these scammers/criminals is not for the soft of heart. Volunteer at a nursing home or build houses for the needy. Don't communicate with scammers because you are likely to get scammed yourself.

For your own good, do some self-evaluation and step away from this nice, educated, philospher family man... Shocked

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:09 am

I too have conversed with lads (in chat), and it's true that many of them see the whole 419 thing as pretty harmless. In countries where scamming is socially accepted and legally ignored (nearly condoned really), it's highly unlikely that those who do it are going to see themselves as we do. It might be cultural, it might be rationalized behaviour, or it might be something I've never seen before, but many lads don't see a problem with being lads.

That said, these people are useless parasites - every damned one of them. I don't care what their situation is or how they got that way. The Nazis, The KKK, Al Qaeda, the FLQ, the Black Panthers, Heritage Front, and just about any other evil organization were all a) convinced that their actions were - or are - not wrong and b) accepted by members of their societies. Does that get any them off the hook? Hell no.

Yes, many lads are married with kids and have an education. They may even love their families, just like a lot of career criminals! Almost every criminal who is caught will provide a sob story and some sort of "I had no choice" routine. At least hookers and drug-dealers do something for their money - lads just lie, lie, and lie some more.

I think what Steam was saying is that it's depressing how the lads see nothing wrong with scamming, not that he's got lots of sympathy for them.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:18 am

Steam wrote:

After our hour-long chat, he said he needed to go to bed and we parted like friends do..."peace" and "talk with you later".

Obi, this part is where he clearly shows that he has sympathy for scammers based on his conversation with this particular lad.

Like friends do? Hmmmm.... Confused

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:31 am

Obi-Wan Knievel wrote:

I think what Steam was saying is that it's depressing how the lads see nothing wrong with scamming, not that he's got lots of sympathy for them.

After re-reading this thread, I have to agree that the OP's intent may have been different.

sheboppe wrote:

Obi, this part is where he clearly shows that he has sympathy for scammers based on his conversation with this particular lad.

Maybe we should wait for Steam's response before we pass judgement.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:36 am

There is always a "heart-warming" story, but you'll be the only one who gets burnt.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:36 am

@ Sheboppe: Well, with all due respect, and respect is due, my vote would be to wait for any clarification on the subject from the OP. I hope I'm right on this.

Many lads (out of character) have addressed me as "bro" and signed off in similar fashion at the end of a convo. That in itself doesn't mean anything, but I do see the danger here.

@ Steam: Might I suggest this: From a totally new account, bait this lad as a character more down-and-out than the picture he painted for you. In fact, do it with several different characters to see if there's anyone he wouldn't steal from. That will show you his true colours better than we ever could.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:37 am

Whatever Steam's intent was I think that spending some time at scamwarners reading the accounts of some of those scammed may help to put things in perspective.

Lads are often educated, married, family people and they do often feel they are justified taking money from not only westerners but also their own countrymen and women, it doesn't make it right what they do, if anything, it probably makes it worse.

Edit Typos

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:53 am

@ ParaNoid -- a very articulate and well-stated summary. You said it way better than I could. Thumbs up

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:40 am

Obi-Wan Knievel wrote:

@ Sheboppe: Well, with all due respect, and respect is due, my vote would be to wait for any clarification on the subject from the OP. I hope I'm right on this.

I agree, Obi and crash. I probably misread the OP's intent. He really needs to have his say about this. I know that what is meant, and what actually comes out in words can be two different things.

Let's wait and see what he has to say.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:44 am

Steam wrote:

I do not understand these people. I really don't.

I posted this a while back.

Pay attention to rules 1 and 2.

Quote:

Rule#0: Scamming is theft.
Commentary: Scammers believe it is their right to steal from anyone on the internet.

Rule#1: Lads lie.
Admonition: Always assume that there is a measurable chance that the entity you are dealing with is a lad.
Contradiction: Lads will redefine any term in order to disguise their scamming.
Corollary: Lads attempt to re-define "scamming" as that which they do not do.
Rule #2: If a lad seems to be telling the truth, see Rule #1.
Corollary: A lad when caught, blames his victims.

Rule#3: Lads are greedy.
Corollary: Lads' greediness can make them do things that are stupid.
Corollary: Never underestimate the greediness of lads.
Corollary: Lads assume everybody is more stupid than themselves.
Lads Standard of discourse: Threats and intimidation trump facts and logic.

Rule #4: The natural course of a lad's business is to get baited.
John McClain's Commentary: BAIT HARD.

Rule #5: Lads will screw over anyone, no matter what the victim's situation is, to scam money from them.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 51

If you begin to feel sorry for lads, try out the modality below:

Me wrote:

I just spoke with Mr. Gomer. I don't know who to believe or what to do. He says you are a thief and you took my money and he says you will be arrested. Are you a thief jacob? I sent away all this money and my 8 year old daughter has cancer and she needs surgery and I don't know if I have enough money now to get her operation. Please she will die if this transaction does not go well.

Lad wrote:

Am very sorry for you daughter illness, I pray that almighty God will heal her and give new life in JEUSE name …

Am here to protect you and guide you fund till you confirm the fund in you account. Am looking forward for your positive response after you have get to the remit dept.

I hope they all die of aids or in a horrible fire caused by one of the TWAT torches.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:23 am

Quote:

I had a chat with a scammer.

You defined him Steam, except that scammers don't chat, they scam and he was just using his powers of influence to get you on his side. Chat long enough and he'll have his hand in your pocket before long.

I find some of the Lads quite fun, very likeable and they crack me up with their lies and antics, but I know that they're just like scorpions and they do what they do irrespective of how well they hide their intentions.

If a scammer tries to act like my friend and make contact with me on a human level I'll make him feel pain of a greater intensity than usual. Scammers don't have friends - they have victims or potential ones.

We all have a sob story to tell - we just don't use ours as a passport of entitlement to commit crime.

Master Baiter Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 209

I just assume that anyone who sends me a scamming and/or begging email is an evil criminal bastard who completely deserves any crap he gets, and then a hundred times more. Actually I respect the beggars more than the scammers (although I'm baiting the beggar Arit@ J@ck at the moment).
Asking you for money is one thing, picking your pockets while doing so is another. Passive/aggressive behavior, if you like.

Anuyway, I do my best to make life difficult for them, and I don't have any problems sleeping at nights Wink

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:54 pm

WOW, talk about a hot thread.

Maybe I need to clarify myself. No, I have no plans to stop scambaiting! No, I don't trust any of them now. And NO, NO, NO, I absolutely do not think that these guy's soppy emotionalism justifies anything!

Maybe I came across in my post as a bit too soft. In the end of the chat I was playing around as much as him with a lot of "peace on earth", "blessings", and "goodwill" crap. He soaked it up.

Anyway, my main point about how sad it is, is that these guys seem to think they're outstanding upright citizens. Not how nice they are.

Just to clarify! Sorry for the confusion!

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:23 pm

Your wasting a scammers time safely via IM can't be a bad thing regardless of what you think of them Wink

I am glad you realise they are the trash desribed above, I have dealt with a couple of victims in my time, you will move that hate to a whole new level after dealing with their victims.

Please understand why some of us get touchy about people befriending lads, even when they actually are not befriending them. Laughing

Oh, one last thing

Quote:

unless they deserve it. Evil or Very Mad

If it's a scammer, they always deserve it Wink

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:36 pm

I've been having this conversation in private with another person from this site. I am currently LIVING with a scammer as a result of a scam he ran on me. He is educated, has been to college, was married once, is raising a son, and has a business that has fallen completely apart. His scam? Find gullible women with jobs and bank accounts to charm to the point where they think he loves them, get them to move in with them, spend up their money, ruin their credit, and then make up reasons why 'this just isn't going to work.' This man refuses to work, claims to have a 'calling to the ministry', says that he is living on 'faith' and pretends to be a law-abiding respectful citizen. I did not recognize it was a scam until I'd given up everything I had and moved 400+ miles away from all my friends and family (this is someone I 'knew' since 6th grade). As soon as it was apparent that I would not be able to take care of him and his bills and his child, he decided he couldn't marry me and that I would have to leave. I am in the process of packing my belongings and going back home.

My point for telling you this is, he can give you the biggest sob story you will ever hear. He's a mortgage broker - the mortgage business has gone down the tubes here in the states, thus his business is very slow so he has no work. The mortgage business was started with seed money provided by a woman he moved in who had just had a huge divorce settlement. After he spent up all her money and ruined her credit, he made her leave. He hasn't paid rent in 11 months because of the lack of business (yes - the landlord FINALLY is evicting his butt - something my sister in law and I never knew about until last night only because we did some snooping - any money we gave to him for bills went into his own bank account). Everything that happens to him is someone else's fault. Life has been hard on him. The list goes on and on. And because he's such a charmer, women fall for it (me included - and I didn't fall for the 6-year love scam that I had going on with my Nigerian/South African friend). He has complete disregard as to how his victims might feel. One of his victims recently was his own daughter who he caused to lose the house she was living in because he was trying to make a buck for himself.

I lost everything in this scam. But I still have my dignity. And somehow I intend to make it back to where I was before the scam. But I will never feel sorry for this person. He's a liar, he's a thief, he's deceptive, and there is not an honest bone in his body. He is not any better than any scammer you will find from Nigeria or any other country. He is presently surfing the Internet in search of his next victim. My prayer is that no one will fall for his ploy, but he's desperate now. The lad rules apply to him, and lots of other people who make their living scamming unsuspecting people - rule #1 Scammers lie - rule #2 if a scammer seems to be telling the truth, see rule #1.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:59 pm

Hey, it's thrown me for a loop to have "nice" and even "enjoyable" conversations with some of my lads. When I started baiting, I thought all lads were pretty much the same in tactic and personality = some kind of a lie and greedy.

The ones who have used "charm" and "philosophy" are very talented and scary smart. IMHO that makes them even more EVIL than the average lad. I keep myself on track by remembering "lads lie, lie, lie."

And, that makes it even more fun for me to mess them up. Laughing

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:39 pm

^

Agreed. The more charming, the more influential, the more believable a scammer is - THE MORE VICTIMS THIS SCAMMER HAS SCREWED ROYALLY and the MORE EVIL THE SCAMMER IS.

Such a scammer deserves the worst we can throw at them.

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:46 pm

Its the smarter lads we need to worry about