SmartFeedSmartFeed          

Porsche Hangout


WELCOME - YOU ARE CURRENTLY VIEWING 419EATER AS A GUEST

By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics and access other forums reserved for members. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today by clicking here.

ScamWarners.com - Internet Anti-Fraud Center - now open!


 This is sad, really

View next topic
View previous topic
 
Post new topicReply to topic
Author Message
sir scam alot
Doesn't share his goats


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 5076
Location: Louisiana


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ I get what you're saying. While stealing is wrong, yes, sometimes I feel worse for some victims than others. I started to feel bad for my newest addition to T.W.A.T. today but then I realized he had a better education than many of his peers and he still choose to be a scammer.

_________________
Safari = Rev. JB Johnson. Lome to Parakou "i thought it will just be a day jouney. unknowingly to me that it will last up to one week."
Safari2 = Harrison: Owerri, Nigeria to Cotonou, Benin and Accra, Ghana "i know ive been a sucker for twat "
Safari = (Group safari) Oy3nka Ch1dinma: Lagos to Cotonou: "Thank you so much for the embrassment."
Safari = Group safari - Dan Nkwerre: Port Harcourt to Abeche, Chad
Safari2 = Barr. Mustapha Marlick: Lome, Togo to Abuja Nigeria and Accra, Ghana.
pony Mortar x15 (some survived) Closed lad accounts x280 T.W.A.T Nurse Nastys Audi TT United States
<b>Have you kicked your lad today?<b>
Over $1 million USD in fake checks/money orders confiscated Easter Egg
View user's profileSend private message
Eight
Retired Moderator


Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 8711
Location: UK


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

AEarhart51 wrote:
The fact that many people are willing victims (through greed or stupidity or both) of these scammers doesn't excuse the scammers' amoral and criminal behavior.
So if I think I have found a proper job, pay in a cheque and see the proceeds in my bank account and send 90% on, which is it, greedy or stupid? If I fall for someone from a dating site whom I believe to be in love with me and I help them out financially, which is it, greedy or stupid? And if I send money to what I believe to be a charity for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, which is it, greedy or stupid? Surprised Blanket statements about victims don't work, I find. Smile


AEarhart51 wrote:
They're religious and speak of God? Well, so are all the evangelists who deceive and manipulate people least able to afford being conned. link removed

We have a "no religion or politics" rule here - please abide by it.


Steam, the trouble with making calls about from whom it's less bad to steal is that you start to judge their circumstances when you may not really know how they got there. One person may be poor because they had loads and squandered it, and another may be rich because they worked hard all their life. Who do you pick then? Smile I prefer focus on the fact that whatever the victim of crime's circumstances, they will almost certainly feel angry and/or vulnerable, and deserve support.

_________________
Mortar

United Kingdom United Kingdom United Kingdom United Kingdom Benin Benin United Kingdom United Kingdom United Kingdom Spain Nigeria France Benin

Avatar from sweethell ** www.ScamWarners.com - Victim warnings, support, advice & information ** Click here to donate to 419Eater.com
View user's profileSend private message
luckey
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 5629
Location: Check the lost and found


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the major points have been made, but I thought I'd share this dialog from a post I made a few weeks ago. I was posing as a college student doing research on scammers. This is from the middle of a discussion with one lad. He answered my general, non-accusatory questions with questions of his own. His point of view is a fairly typical representation of the kind of BS backfill a lot of lads seem to use to justify what they do (his words are in black, mine are in blue):

Quote:
How do you feel when the whites were using we Africans for slave trades?

That was wrong. It was ended before my parents or grandparents were born. Many, or most of the people who descended from slaves live here, and fall for these scams. Are you scamming the great grandchildren of the slave keepers, or the great grand children of the slaves? Do you do try only to scam white people? How do you find out?

How do you feel when upon how your country is developed but still our selfish rulers are looting our finances for real and your people will be accepting it while the poor masses here cannot afford to eat nor train their children in school?

That is also wrong. Ordinary citizens in most countries are not able to control their government officials, any more than you are yours.

How do you feel accepting money you did not work for?

Can you explain your question better? What money do I receive without working?

All this happens, upon how Africa is poor? Your people are wicked?
They deserve what we are doing them.

Isn't it true that there are wicked people in every society? How can you know who is wicked and who is not. What if one of your victims is is of African decent? Or what happens if one of your victims lives in Africa now? How do you know where your emails go?

Does scamming people help your country? Or is the damage to the reputation of the honest, hardworking African people being sold just as the slaves were?


Rather than answer my follow-up questions, he told me a story about how his friend scammed someone for two million dollars. He claimed the scam worked because the victim had previously stolen 12 million from the Nigerian government.

He was unable, or unwilling to counter any of my points. In my opinion, the rationalizations he offered are largely racist, and as such, they can not be defended with reason or logic. They are also based on shreds of misinterpreted or over-simplified facts. His mindset reminds me of the kinds of arguments terrorists use to justify harming innocent people to forward their agendas. One could argue that terrorists have a moral leg up on scammers since, however misguided, their agenda is not to simply line their own pockets.

_________________
Moderator: \ˈmä-də-ˌrā-tər\: noun
A material which slows down neutrons after fission to speeds at which their probability for interaction with the fuel material is increased.
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Steam
Master Baiter


Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Selling a Magic Levitating Burrito


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Luckey, good post.

I do find it interesting that in general, the scammers are more racist than most Americans or Europeans I know. To me this nullifies the "racist" complaint people have against scambaiters. There are lads, vlads, and Filipinos. Americans would scam if they weren't afraid of actually getting punished by the government.

I tried to get this guy to admit that he had lied to me, even in the course of his humble pity-party conversation, but he just couldn't. After I point blank asked him if he was ashamed, he made an excuse and said he needed to go to bed. It was about 6:00am local time there, so that was obviously an excuse...either that or he was some new nocturnal breed of human.

_________________
I WILL CALL YOUR SPIRIT AND DESTROY YOU - Captain Scott
i am so furious - Captain Scott
YOU ARE IDIOT 419MAN BYEEE - Prince Kelvin
i am 29 Years old and wil celebrate my 27th birthday on the 30th of December - Clara H.
CARRY YOUR WAHALA GO,I NO I BE U - Francis A.
View user's profileSend private message
jojobean
Baiting Guru


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 7586
Location: YOU WILL DRINK YOUR URINE IN A COMERCIAL BUS


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Steam wrote:
I'm not going to be quite so belligerent from now on, unless they deserve it. Twisted Evil


Not understanding... can't comprehend.

I respect no person or group of people raised with the ethical thoughts that stealing from others is okay. That's not being a bigot or intolerant, it's being right. Just because their mentality is that way doesn't make it acceptable.

_________________
Golden Pith Globe T.W.A.T Jack Boot
Christ Safari Ghana-Chad
Miracle Safari Benin-Chad
Omar Safari Edo-Abeche T.W.A.T
Adamu Safari Lagos-Abeche
Emi Safari- S Africa-Egypt-Sudan 10k miles
Chris Safari Jolly Roger Dakar-Niger-BF-Cameroon-Lagos-Mali-Nairobi 9.6k miles

Kevin Pith Helmet 10 Safari Accra- BF x2, Togo x2, Kumasi x3, Bolgatanga, Benin City, Tamale x2 Suitcase 5k miles Tattoo x 6
Kenny Safari Safari Safari 3k miles- dont f*ck me up about the payment plz. i have a policy about that. I JUST GOT A SMALL GOAT TODAY AND ITS IN MY HOUSE NOW. i lobve the goat.
Goat
Ben Safari Safari Safari 2.5k miles

Misc Pith Helmet 20 Pith Helmet 5 Pith Helmet 5 Safari Safari Germany-Holland, Atlanta, Beijing-ChangZhou, London-Glasgow, TIMBUKTU x 2
View user's profileSend private message
Steam
Master Baiter


Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Selling a Magic Levitating Burrito


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well...I'm not going to immediately start being belligerent and insulting them, until they start being jerks or overly idiotic.

All these guys are morally corrupt. We all agree on that. They do all deserve to get cussed out/led on/lied to/time wasted/etc, but I'm going to let them transgress against me before I really lay it on them.

_________________
I WILL CALL YOUR SPIRIT AND DESTROY YOU - Captain Scott
i am so furious - Captain Scott
YOU ARE IDIOT 419MAN BYEEE - Prince Kelvin
i am 29 Years old and wil celebrate my 27th birthday on the 30th of December - Clara H.
CARRY YOUR WAHALA GO,I NO I BE U - Francis A.
View user's profileSend private message
luckey
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 5629
Location: Check the lost and found


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^Sounds like a good plan. Everyone here should use their own moral compass to guide their baiting efforts.

While you are busy doing that, I will be trying to get them to shave their heads with a cheese grater while drinking gasoline and running with scissors, regardless of what they say or do to me personally. Wink

_________________
Moderator: \ˈmä-də-ˌrā-tər\: noun
A material which slows down neutrons after fission to speeds at which their probability for interaction with the fuel material is increased.
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Steam
Master Baiter


Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Selling a Magic Levitating Burrito


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I will be trying to get them to shave their heads with a cheese grater


Give me a photo. Twisted Evil

_________________
I WILL CALL YOUR SPIRIT AND DESTROY YOU - Captain Scott
i am so furious - Captain Scott
YOU ARE IDIOT 419MAN BYEEE - Prince Kelvin
i am 29 Years old and wil celebrate my 27th birthday on the 30th of December - Clara H.
CARRY YOUR WAHALA GO,I NO I BE U - Francis A.
View user's profileSend private message
ParaNoid
** REMEMBERED **


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5123
Location: Looking for Steward.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Steam wrote:
Americans would scam if they weren't afraid of actually getting punished by the government.


Umm, Steam, what kind of comment is this? Evil or Very Mad

There are Americans who scam anyway. HOWEVER, not ALL Americans would scam out of fear of the government. Not ALL Nigerians scam. Not ALL Filipinos scam (I have met some very nice Filipinos over the years). Not ALL Russians scam.

Generalizations are dangerous and a form of prejudice. The scammers we work with are that, they are scammers. I don't think anyone cares what nationality they are. It is their behaviour that gets our attention. It is the damage that they do do victims that fuels our efforts.

As Luckey said, bait the way you are comfortable with. Most baiters (and all successful baiters) do not cuss out/curse at the scammers they work with. When we do discuss them "here" the language gets quite colorful at times. That doesn't mean we talk TO them that way. If we did, they would just end the communication.

Please read some in the Published Baits forum, and please don't generalize any Culture, Ethnicity or Nationality. It isn't nice.

_________________
Gold Coins here

pony pony Closed lad accounts Goat Goat Goat Goat Sand Timer Easter Egg Easter 2015
Mortar x 4 <b>Looking for a Mentor? Click here</b>

"If I get mad at you, please just understand me. I am just being ParaNoid because I love you so much." - unknown

Visit www.scamwarners.com
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Peanut
awaiting my WARNED tag


Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 1143
Location: Chicago


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ Agreed. Let's try to work on a case by case basis here.

_________________
Nigeria Mortar x11 Closed lad accounts x17

Sand TimerSafariSafari(Lagos-Benin City-Lagos-Kano-Maiduguri-Lagos-Calabar): ~2,696 miles,stranded for 11 days: "I am very grateful that you have turned me into a tourist,international espionage and adventurer." ~Desmond and Churchill

Please i am advicing you to comply with the bank so that they will tranfered this fun into your account. ~Rosemary

U.S. Passport Application - 50 Pages of Fun

The Peanut Gallery - Artwork Baits "DO YOU KNOW THAT SECURITY PHOTOS IS AGAINST HUMANITY , CAN YOU TELL A RESPONSIBLE MAN TO BE CARRYING IN FISH ON THE HEAD TO TAKE A PHOTO. CAN YOU DO THAT?" - Mr. Ferguson
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
ShadowBeastie
419Eater is my life


Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 293
Location: Agility training pet peddlers across the globe.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Generalizations are very dangerous. They feed fear and lies and result in prejudice which can come to an even greater issue: genocide.

Human beings, regardless of nationality, are capable of scamming. Just like human beings, regardless of nationality, are capable of committing crimes and on the flipside being constructive members of society. This is called human nature, and it has very little to do with nationality, creed, age, sex.

_________________
Look what pet peddler pets can do!
I just do not know why, You know some people are very jelouse and wicked. Have you send the money already?
AND fuke your ass
AND Who the hell do you call your boss. Is your boss Idleness?--kelly notsobriete

yes i mating pair. ok. you will have to pay me $3500 when you receive them.
AND you are a thief. you are not in USA. please send me your number to call then i will happily call the airport to proceed with the shipping.--Hey Jude
Cameroon is not in Ireland. i am not a snake piss seller
AND i have very healthy ship that i will be shipping them to you ok.-- Mac Ferdy
View user's profileSend private message
jojobean
Baiting Guru


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 7586
Location: YOU WILL DRINK YOUR URINE IN A COMERCIAL BUS


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

As a baiter, now that I know the tricks of the trade, I really feel that I could easily steal from vics if I wanted to. I think I would be quite good at it too. The government plays no role in my choice to earn an honest living.

_________________
Golden Pith Globe T.W.A.T Jack Boot
Christ Safari Ghana-Chad
Miracle Safari Benin-Chad
Omar Safari Edo-Abeche T.W.A.T
Adamu Safari Lagos-Abeche
Emi Safari- S Africa-Egypt-Sudan 10k miles
Chris Safari Jolly Roger Dakar-Niger-BF-Cameroon-Lagos-Mali-Nairobi 9.6k miles

Kevin Pith Helmet 10 Safari Accra- BF x2, Togo x2, Kumasi x3, Bolgatanga, Benin City, Tamale x2 Suitcase 5k miles Tattoo x 6
Kenny Safari Safari Safari 3k miles- dont f*ck me up about the payment plz. i have a policy about that. I JUST GOT A SMALL GOAT TODAY AND ITS IN MY HOUSE NOW. i lobve the goat.
Goat
Ben Safari Safari Safari 2.5k miles

Misc Pith Helmet 20 Pith Helmet 5 Pith Helmet 5 Safari Safari Germany-Holland, Atlanta, Beijing-ChangZhou, London-Glasgow, TIMBUKTU x 2
View user's profileSend private message
Steam
Master Baiter


Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Selling a Magic Levitating Burrito


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I was expressly NOT making a generalization based on race, culture, or ethnicity. I don't see how my statement was misconstrued here.

My exact point was that it doesn't matter what culture they come from. But there is a very real reason why 90% of all email scammers come from Russia or Nigeria...the laws and enforcement regarding that crime are very lax. Here, in the US, they're not.

Please reread my comment. I wasn't attacking anyone. If anything, I was criticizing fellow Americans, who would e-scam if they could.

_________________
I WILL CALL YOUR SPIRIT AND DESTROY YOU - Captain Scott
i am so furious - Captain Scott
YOU ARE IDIOT 419MAN BYEEE - Prince Kelvin
i am 29 Years old and wil celebrate my 27th birthday on the 30th of December - Clara H.
CARRY YOUR WAHALA GO,I NO I BE U - Francis A.
View user's profileSend private message
jojobean
Baiting Guru


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 7586
Location: YOU WILL DRINK YOUR URINE IN A COMERCIAL BUS


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

No big deal, it's just that you are saying that fellow Americans would scam. That was the problem that people had with the statement. Sure, some Americas would scam, because some people are just rotten. However, there are many (most) that wouldn't.

Sometimes it is very hard to get across what you mean without the luxury of tone and such. Trust me, I have stuck my foot in my mouth a number of times.

_________________
Golden Pith Globe T.W.A.T Jack Boot
Christ Safari Ghana-Chad
Miracle Safari Benin-Chad
Omar Safari Edo-Abeche T.W.A.T
Adamu Safari Lagos-Abeche
Emi Safari- S Africa-Egypt-Sudan 10k miles
Chris Safari Jolly Roger Dakar-Niger-BF-Cameroon-Lagos-Mali-Nairobi 9.6k miles

Kevin Pith Helmet 10 Safari Accra- BF x2, Togo x2, Kumasi x3, Bolgatanga, Benin City, Tamale x2 Suitcase 5k miles Tattoo x 6
Kenny Safari Safari Safari 3k miles- dont f*ck me up about the payment plz. i have a policy about that. I JUST GOT A SMALL GOAT TODAY AND ITS IN MY HOUSE NOW. i lobve the goat.
Goat
Ben Safari Safari Safari 2.5k miles

Misc Pith Helmet 20 Pith Helmet 5 Pith Helmet 5 Safari Safari Germany-Holland, Atlanta, Beijing-ChangZhou, London-Glasgow, TIMBUKTU x 2
View user's profileSend private message
ParaNoid
** REMEMBERED **


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5123
Location: Looking for Steward.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^That was my point, and jojoobean made it too. I do not scam our of fear of the government. I don't scam because it is not right! I know hundreds of people who would not scam if it weren't regulated either.

Criminal behaviour occurs regardless of the laws. Infact in some people's minds, it is the laws that MAKE their behaviours illegal.

Lets not make this a political or government hating thread.

If I misunderstood the statement I quoted from your post, I apologize. I stand by my statements about generalizations. Cool

_________________
Gold Coins here

pony pony Closed lad accounts Goat Goat Goat Goat Sand Timer Easter Egg Easter 2015
Mortar x 4 <b>Looking for a Mentor? Click here</b>

"If I get mad at you, please just understand me. I am just being ParaNoid because I love you so much." - unknown

Visit www.scamwarners.com
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Steam
Master Baiter


Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Selling a Magic Levitating Burrito


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

jojobean wrote:
Sometimes it is very hard to get across what you mean without the luxury of tone and such. Trust me, I have stuck my foot in my mouth a number of times.


Thanks! I've been sticking my foot in my mouth a number of times in this thread.

I am sure, that of the millions of Nigerians and Russians, only a small percentage of them scam. Yet I'm pretty sure that a close percentage of Americans are probably involved in some criminal activity of some kind. I'm not trying to lessen the fact that crime in Russia is particularly bad, or to accuse Americans in general of being crooks.

I guess I need to really close my mouth. That's the problem with the world wide web...if we could only be face to face we'd probably all agree!

_________________
I WILL CALL YOUR SPIRIT AND DESTROY YOU - Captain Scott
i am so furious - Captain Scott
YOU ARE IDIOT 419MAN BYEEE - Prince Kelvin
i am 29 Years old and wil celebrate my 27th birthday on the 30th of December - Clara H.
CARRY YOUR WAHALA GO,I NO I BE U - Francis A.
View user's profileSend private message
packman
Aye Spel Betterrer


Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 1498
Location: In his own little world but it's ok, they know him there.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is been a awsome thread, lots of view point and thoughts. I need to add my .02, a am very much a Christian, very active in my church and commuity, but the is a point that even a person who pratises the teaching of his lord and savior Jesus Christ, where he have to say enought is enought.
there is something called "rightous indenation" I know its not spelled right. But there is a time when a person of peace need to arm him self, even if its with a keyboard.
we are all there to help our fellow man, all of us here it by proteching the unprotected from scum. ethicly we are in the right as it sead in the bible " an eye for an eye. we are here and what we do is because the need of the many (the victims) out weight the needs of the few (the lads),
I feel and show NO remorse for what I do, I did not start the scamming the first bullet was fired be the scammer, I am here to put my body up as a sheild metaphoicly speaking, takeing the shot instead of some poor soul.
and I have talked to my pastor of my church and told him all about scambating and why I do it. and he comfirms my feeling that what I/we do is right and is in the eye of the lord is justafyed. as a shepard I am tending to the flock keeping the wolves at bay.

_________________
Pancratic Cancer is beyond suck.
Our Forum Mods. can beat up your Forum Mods
SB Eye Regime.
The receipt you send is totally invisible ok-Kelly

FUCK YOU SMALL BOI YOU ARE POOR IN HEAD AND SOUL
AND GOD WILL PUNISH YOU FOR SCAMMING HOUNST MEN LIKE ME.. Segun Akintemi
Click here to support 419Eater.com
pony <-- I got a pony WAHOO Easter Egg 2013
Closed lad accounts x3
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Murry Guru
Baiting Guru


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 5561
Location: Turned into Ralph


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
While you are busy doing that, I will be trying to get them to shave their heads with a cheese grater while drinking gasoline and running with scissors, regardless of what they say or do to me personally


Why waste perfectly good petrol / gasoline unless you are going to have them set fire to themselves, there is a worldwide fuel shortage at the moment and wasting it in that fashion would be wrong and unethical Wink

_________________
"I want to hold your hand and let you scream at me while you bring our child into this world"- Linda Lopez
Safari Bait with Frumpy on the hitman "i though we are partners in this and now u turn around to stub me on the back"
Click to learn how to romance bait Click to get your name in mugu gold
Got info on a scam vic? PM a mod Recieved a scam warning? Say "thank you, I am a baiter"
Ruin your pets day, post their details at scamwarners
Nurse Nastys Audi TT <- I run like a girl
Mortar x12 Closed lad accounts ? not enough Twisted Evil
Goat Goat <- this one belongs to Ralph.
View user's profileSend private message
AEarhart51
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
So if I think I have found a proper job, pay in a cheque and see the proceeds in my bank account and send 90% on, which is it, greedy or stupid? If I fall for someone from a dating site whom I believe to be in love with me and I help them out financially, which is it, greedy or stupid? And if I send money to what I believe to be a charity for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, which is it, greedy or stupid?


I fail to see the comparison. In the above examples you mention, you are sending money to help out. Of course there is no "greed" involved in that. How could there be, when you are promised nothing in return? It might be less than prudent to send money to unknown charitable organizations without checking them out first, or to send money to someone on a dating site BUT, the outlay there is usually limited, since most people wouldn't send the last dime they have while getting nothing in return..

Sending money to to anonymous names in email spam for the express purpose of receiving riches beyond your wildest dreams in return is a whole other ball of wax. Lots of people will turn off their common sense when they smell money...lots and lots of money.

As for "discussing religion" - I was not discussing that at all, but talking about people who commit mass fraud every day. Fraud is fraud and the positions of the people committing it - evangelist or Ebay seller - is not the issue.

And BTW, I never said every single person who is scammed is stupid and greedy. I said "MANY", and I stand by that.
View user's profileSend private message
luckey
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 5629
Location: Check the lost and found


PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

AEarhart51 wrote:
I fail to see the comparison. In the above examples you mention, you are sending money to help out. Of course there is no "greed" involved in that. How could there be, when you are promised nothing in return?


Some charity scams promise nothing in return, some promise a commission for setting up a trust. I have personally had contact with victims of scams like these who lose tons of money, with no promise of return. I knew a woman who had been sending money to a "charity" for years. She didn't think it was much, but when we figured it what she had sent over the years, it was a huge amount of money. She wasn't stupid, just inexperienced with the internet.

With job scams people believe they have found a job. They deposit checks that are fake, deposit them and send 90% or so of to their "employer". By the time the thing comes tumbling down, they are thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and they are in a heap of legal trouble as well. Sometimes they will be approached again by the same scammers pretending to be law enforcement and they get scammed again. Stupid is a harsh term. Many of the people who fall for these scams are desperate for a job. Maybe undereducated, but not stupid.

Romance scams are brutal too. People sincerely fall in love and believe they are sending money to help their future spouse, or to help them get a visa etc. to come to where they live. These people routinely get bled dry.

With lottery scams, people genuinely believe they have won a pile of money. Maybe that's greed, but is it wrong to want to win a lottery?

Even inheritance scams can be highly targeted, where lads research family names. Is a person greedy if they want to claim what they believe is a legitimate inheritance?

Quote:
And BTW, I never said every single person who is scammed is stupid and greedy. I said "MANY", and I stand by that.


Many people probably are.

Many are not.

_________________
Moderator: \ˈmä-də-ˌrā-tər\: noun
A material which slows down neutrons after fission to speeds at which their probability for interaction with the fuel material is increased.
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
Eight
Retired Moderator


Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 8711
Location: UK


PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

AEarhart51 wrote:
I fail to see the comparison.

I'm not surprised. I was not drawing a comparison. I was talking about the other types of victims, the ones that don't fit the aspersions in your post. You made your point, and I filled in the gaps so that the thread as a whole presented a more complete picture. We have victims coming here looking for advice and support, and I don't see any reason why "many" of them should be categorised as stupid or greedy without further comment or some kind of rebuttal. And even if a victim has been stupid or greedy or both, I think they deserve a little compassion. Besides which, telling someone they have been stupid is not an effective way of getting them to learn from a mistake, in my experience.

_________________
Mortar

United Kingdom United Kingdom United Kingdom United Kingdom Benin Benin United Kingdom United Kingdom United Kingdom Spain Nigeria France Benin

Avatar from sweethell ** www.ScamWarners.com - Victim warnings, support, advice & information ** Click here to donate to 419Eater.com
View user's profileSend private message
Tsnerd
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 41


PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
And even if a victim has been stupid or greedy or both, I think they deserve a little compassion.


I'll second that.

Just a general comment, but I see the 'many people scammed are just greedy/stupid' thoughts in these threads all the time. It doesn't make what happened to them any less of a crime than a prostitute being raped or victimized.

_________________

Fakers: many, many, lots; an SSL and a couple of Resellers.
Mortar x 6
AH, AH, AH! Two little !
View user's profileSend private message
sheboppe
The Sparkly Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 5002
Location: United States


PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

AEarhart51 wrote:
The fact that many people are willing victims (through greed or stupidity or both)

The only "willing" victims that I have ever seen are the ones that know that the check or money order is fake, and either attempt to cash it or succeed in cashing it hoping that they won't be caught.

Those are co-conspirators, not victims, and are driven by greed.

Victims are often in need of money, and are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to someone that promises to help them. Yes, some victims are hard-headed. Like the person that plays the slot machine and loses but keeps feeding the machine hoping that the next pull of the handle will be the big jackpot, many victims have the same hope for the millions they are promised. The words gullible and trusting come into play here, but to call scam victims stupid and greedy is hard-hearted.

These people need compassion, not contempt.

_________________
| <a href=http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=135992> Official Eater T-Shirts</a> | <a href=http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81028> Premium Membership</a> | ScamWarners | <a href=http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5413> Forum Rules</a> | <a href=http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=51> Baiting Tutorials</a> | <a href=http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118738> Baiting Help</a> | <a href=http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=137846> FAQs</a> |

star pony pony pony Pretty Rose Pretty Rose Mortar x22
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail
manbiteslion
Baiting Guru


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: Connecting my chair and keyboard


PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

mewing_ghecko wrote:
Quote:
4. Scammers do not contribute to the welfare of their own economy and environment.

this one i would like to comment on. Scammers do contribute to their economy.

I see what you're saying, but I see a different scenario...

In terms of social responsibility I don't imagine many scammers really can claim to be Robin Hood characters driving around in BMW's through streets of hungry innocent people. Their economic contribution is a by-product of consumption at best, and I'm sure their lax moral compasses mean they'd steal and extort what they consume given even a fraction of a chance. Robin Hood lived more or less as his local community lived (so the legend goes), giving away his takings as opposed to reluctant dickswinging power play spending.

After all, how much of a scammer's gains do you reckon they declare for tax purposes? Wink
View user's profileSend private message
PsycheDelia_Smith
Baiting Guru


Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 3573
Location: Devon, UK


PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Steam wrote:
I'm not going to be quite so belligerent from now on, unless they deserve it. Twisted Evil


This is one of the lines that stirred up the hornet's nest I think, and they all deserve it mate, as you know. He nearly had you there.

_________________
SATISFIED CLIENTS:
"I was forced to sell off my designers black suit to be able to return back to Ouagadougou and on my coming back here my wife
took me to the cyber cafe and showed me the site where my photographs of circumcision was put on the net."-'Tosser' 0gugu0

"I am now completely twatted and shagged and will obey all your instructions to the fullest."-"Tosser" Oguguo

Golden Pith "Frankily speaking,I wouldn't want to travel to the far east again."-Edward Smith, Lagos-Singapore (14600 miles round trip via Dubai)


9x Safari 4 x Lagos-Accra , 3x Port Harcourt - Ibadan, 1x Lagos-Singapore, 1x Burkina-Bamako
Netherlands Nigeria Ghana South Africa
Sand Timer'Ed', 3 yrs 8 mnths Sand Timer'Oguguo',6 years and 4 months
View user's profileSend private message
Display posts from previous:      
Post new topicReply to topic


 Jump to:   



View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



** Find out information about your IP address **


All Content © 2003 - 419Eater.com
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group :S5: FI Theme :: All times are GMT