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 When is it cash baiting?

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Glowstick
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 42


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm aware, for obvious reasons cash baiting is illegal, but when does baiting become cash baiting? Does it have to be them actually sending you cash?

I was thinking about a future bait idea (I'm learning from a straight bait - with help - for now) which if it went really well could end up with my character, one day being sent tickets and/or stuff. I have no idea how I'd receive things yet and that's not the point, I just thought I'd give some background on my thinking.

Isn't being sent stuff though, the same as cash baiting? I mean getting stuff with a value from them? I know that gifts and stuff have been done before (<3 the wooden head sculpture from one of the baits I read before joining) but is that not basically the same thing as getting cash from the lads (stealing)?

Basically what I'm asking is, is there a line between receiving gifts and receiving money? Not worried about ethics, just the law/forum rules.

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Eight
Retired Moderator


Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 8711
Location: UK


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Cash baiting is just what it says.

I know that people sometimes see no logical difference between baiting for trophies and baiting for cash. However, there are much greyer areas, legally, over trophies, not least the value, which may be negligible. And pragmatically speaking, no LEO is going to be as bothered about trinkets and trophies as they are about hard cash, although the closer your trophy gets to something that can readily be traded for hard cash, the harder it gets for them to ignore it. Smile

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Glowstick
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 42


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sounds sensible. Thanks. If I ever do get to the point of being sent stuff I may ask more specifically (that is to say with exactly what the item is) at a later date. Smile

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Eight
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

No problem. Smile You're welcome to PM me, bump this (if it is soon), or start a new thread whichever you prefer. Smile

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ShadowBeastie
419Eater is my life


Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 293
Location: Agility training pet peddlers across the globe.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Speaking of legality, isn't conceivable that cash received could be looked upon as a form of money laundering or the potential for it? Or am I off base there?

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Eight
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Location: UK


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You're not off base. Depending on the source and/or amount, cash baiting could get you into money laundering territory. Sad

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DrWho
Baiting Guru


Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Where ever I go, there I am


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Money laundering is passing money through different accounts and payees so that it's real source is hard or difficult to discover. I don't think cash baiting could fall into that unless you are forwarding the money to the scammer. Which would sort of be opposite to the point of cash baiting. Obviously there is a potential.

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Eight
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Location: UK


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The law in England and Wales has changed fairly recently, and much more falls into the money laundering provisions now than previously. There's more info here: http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Money_laundering

As it says, "the definition of money laundering offences in POCA [Proceeds of Crime Act 2002] is much wider and defines even passive “possession” of criminal property as money laundering." If a lad sends a baiter money that he's acquired from scamming, then it could fall squarely into the English laws on money laundering.

The Wiki Crimeline, btw, is run by a very well-respected and knowledgeable criminal practitioner in England, Andrew Keogh, and is entirely reliable on matters relating to criminal law in England and Wales, if anyone's looking stuff up. Very Happy

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Tolin Dorden
Master Baiter


Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 113
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Better tell him to stop practice crime if he's a criminal practitioner then eh ? Razz

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