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 (split): Ethics of Evil Safari- Lad in Abeche!!!

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Betelgeuse
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

In case you don't get it Ms. Ding L. Berry - As the good professor said above - no we don't care what happens.

Think scum, scum, scum X 10 and you have it...

They definitely don't care if their victim dies.... It's a hard line on them, but then again they have destroyed victims lives. Poetic Justice?

B

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Subma Shingun
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Personally I could never find it in myself to push the guys to Abeche knowing they could lose their lives.

The only way anyone can ever find out about who caused someone to lose their lives is if it ever went to court.

If a lad died and a baiter 'X' had absolute proof of it and baiter 'X' went on to say that he did not care, does not feel guilty, feel that what he did was right etc ... I personaly would only beleive his conscience was clear if he could tell anyone in his life .... a wife, a friend, a work colleague, an unknown stranger at a work conference, a policeman etc and actually laugh about it without the anonymity of the internet and an anonymous name.
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Ms. Ding L. Berry
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Ok peeps. I said I was sorry.
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Subma Shingun
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Nothing to be sorry about.
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dr stephen williams
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Ms. Dingle Berry,

There is no need to apologize. Almost everyone has ethical issues at some point.

It's good to have ethical qualms. It's fine to set boundaries. I think most people here would be happy to know their lad got offed on safari.

The golden rule here is do not do what you are not comfortable doing, and leave everyone else alone. So don't try to send your lads to Darfur, or to Abeche with signs in Arabic saying the Prophet ate dogs.

I had ethics issues, too, but the longer I am here.... the less issues I have.

For a test, tell the next 5 lads you bait that you need money for your daughters chemotherapy, and see if one of them says, "Hey, keep your money! She needs it" It won't happen. I tried that repeatedly, looking for a lad with a heart that didn't pump turpentine, and all I heard was "Yes! When you get your payment, then you will be able to cover all of those expensive medical bills".

Just find your boundaries, and forward!

Good luck! Bait safely! Etc!

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Ms. Ding L. Berry
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well obviously I only asked how you guys felt about possibly killing 2 people. I now know.

Nothing personal, I totally respect all of your opinions.... I was only asking, because to me, just reading it and knowing what I have done as a baiter.. gave me cause to question what I was really doing.

I love messing with them and shutting them down. I love to read about the time invested by others sending people on safari's. But to know that 2 people are being held ransom and may be killed over money just seems like the whole idea of what this is about has gotten out of control.

I guess if death is the ultimate goal then I am a little put off. I am all for wasting thier time, putting them out of business, sending them on safari. But.... killing is a little out of my league. Or intentionaly trying to kill is out of my league as well.

I am all for making them suffer... but these 2 brothers are on the brink of death. They should be cut loose to fend their way back to Nigeria in my opinion. But not be subjected to more sinister ways of being put to death. In my opinion they are already very near death at the hands of their driver. They are 1300 miles from home. Let them fight their way back. You guys have already said how stupid they are, is it neccessary to subject them to a more certain death?

Stealing money is one thing, but intentionally killing someone is totally different. And killing a greedy person by using his greed is just as sick.
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Subma Shingun
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

...to be honest even if there was ever any proof of a death there was a test case in a court of law....I think they may find that a baiter had a huge moral responsibility..but would definetely be acquited as the lad actually was driven by greed. ..and was not actually physically killed by the baiter. The closest similarity I can think off is the Angie Brewer case in London whose boyfriend shot a pregnant woman
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duckquack
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@doctor ^^^^
Ditto to the above.

I'm still having problems about how far to push things. I asked an ethics question a few months ago that I couldn't even look up now through sheer embarrassment now. Embarassed

I know they're human beings and until you get on their bad side they can seem like vulnerable unfortunate deserving human beings but they don't see their victims that way. I know that's generalizing and to be honest I'm baiting one poor guy who seems different now... but ask in 2 months time and I'll tell you what a bastard he is.

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Felix the Cat
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I believe that killing another human, however deserving he or she may be, is the most disgusting act that can be done.

Or, to put a different spin on it: nobody deserves death. Some deserve a fate to make them wish for death.

My general opinion of many baiters has markedly decreased now. The good news is that my opinion has no effect upon you, and that I do not believe it is my job to push my beliefs on others.

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Ms. Ding L. Berry
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree. We are all here to make them suffer. I guess I was just wondering... To what end?? I see all sides of this. Even the mugus side. If I grew up to be 20 in where they live and some offered my 50 cents to spam email, then I suppose I would do it. Personally I loved watching Adamu and his brother suffer as well. But at the same time it made me question my own morals. I mean yeah... it was nice to see them suffer and to think of all the scams I have suffered through. But as a human it made me think about how cruel what they were going through was. Even I too I laughed and had a good time at their expence. I guess to me, it just boils down to not wanting someone to die over what we consider fun and games. And they are definetly in a position to die right now. They kill people over there for less things than what Adamu and his brother have done. And to me that was a sobering reality.
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Akai Ryu
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I believe that killing another human, however deserving he or she may be, is the most disgusting act that can be done.


Nobody here has killed anyone. Last I checked, the lads have this little thing called "free will."

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SlayerFaith
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

OK, can we talk? I mean, really.
This type of thread really makes me nuts. The "what ifs" and "this might happens" are endless and 99% lad bullshit anyway. Lesson #1, lads lie... 24/7.

That said, I really couldn't care less where these lads are, or what is happening to them. Fact: they went on safari knowing damned well what they were doing. Lads have calculators where most peoples' empathy resides. We aren't talking about some scam victim who goes to meet the scammers and gets kidnapped/tortured/murdered here. We are talking about a couple of scammers going eyes wide open to a crappy place for the sole purpose of stealing a shitload of money. Please keep in mind that they were and are quite free to tell the baiters to fuck off at ANY time. there is no force being used here other than the scammers' desire to rip off what they think are innocent people.

For those accusing the baiters of murder, should the innocent lambs die...

Honey, please.

Can you really murder someone via email? Someone who is, as mentioned above, free to tell you to go fuck yourself at any time? Really?
How often do you travel to a foreign country knowing NOTHING about it? I didn't think so. They don't either. These lads chose the course they wanted to take.

Sorry, but if they get killed in the process of trying to scam some baiters, they get all the sympathy I reserve for asshole thieves who break into someone's house and grease themselves falling down the basement stairs.

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MattNW
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

As someone mentioned above all ethics threads in all the time I've been on Eater have always involved "what if?"

What if the sign gets someone executed. What if the lad really starves to death?

In the safari in question the driver will likely just leave the lad stranded. What good would it do to kill someone when doing so will get you no money? It's not worth the time, trouble or risk that the person you kill may have relatives who will seek revenge. Of course he's threatening the lad's life. Scare him enough and maybe he will come up with part of the money but to actually kill him I highly doubt it.

Now a baseball bat to the knee caps is a possibility but look on the bright side. The lad will be a much more effective beggar with two crushed knee caps. Maybe he will earn enough money to go home.

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sheboppe
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Krona wrote:
Where is the justice? YW and Jojo and ProfSoAndSo sit safely on the other side of the Internet while I have to go to Best Buy for a new keyboard.


This is why I buy them cheap and keep a supply in my closet. Laughing

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Felix the Cat
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Akai Ryu wrote:
Nobody here has killed anyone. Last I checked, the lads have this little thing called "free will."


And baiters have free will as well - the ability to choose which path they lead their lads down.

The intention of placing another human in a position where he or she may be killed is what matters to me. I view baiters as people who are supposed to be morally superior to the lads. I don't believe that choosing a path for the bait specifically intended to injure/kill a lad is a moral decision, when there are many other paths open that cause mental harm, financial loss, and great inconvenience to the lad.

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Professor So And So
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I can honestly say that we were not sending him/them to Abeche, Chad, and hoping for Darfur, in order for them to have some tea and cupcakes. I don't understand how someone could read the first post in that thread (not to mention the title) and wonder if we're going too far with our "fun and games" (Fun? Yes. Games? No.).

This safari has gone according to plan, outside of a few minor delays for us to work with. I do not think we'll ever hear from them again, at some point, so I hope you all enjoy the laughs now.

It's not our fault the lad believed us. I think he just needs to find the humor in it all from his side. I mean, come on, I think he'd even laugh and say something like "Okay, you got me". But only if the driver removes the duct tape from his wrists long enough for him to fire off an e-mail.

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Gnasher
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:26 am Reply with quoteBack to top

If lads decide to place themselves in mortal danger in pursuit of a victim's money then I say boo f*cking hoo. It's a choice they make. They of all people know the risks involved in visiting these God forsaken corners of the continent. Yet they still go because they are greedy and have no moral qualms about taking their victim's last cent.

I once told a lad I couldn't pay him because my 'wife' had died and I had to pay for her funeral. His reply was "never mind, you can borrow the money". If I was luring innocent or naive people on safari and into danger then of course I'd have qualms, but in that situation I wouldn't do it anyway. Lads are a lot more canny than we give them credit for sometimes and they take these risks with their eyes wide open so they get zero sympathy from me.

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GomerPyle
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Just a thought.

Hypothetical situation - if a thief came into your house and demanded to know where your money was and you told him it was on top of a cabint and you knew there was a rat trap there, and because of the shock he fell off the chair he was standing on and broke his neck - would you care ? - would you feel responsible ?

I'd say cracking result. That's the simplest and closest analogy I can think of.

It's not having a go at you Ms. Ding L. Berry. I've had moments of weakness too, but you always have to keep in mind that the scammers are not the poor and needy with their internet cafe access and mobile phones.

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sheboppe
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think that enough has been said in this thread to cover the OP's questions. Hundreds of different views on ethics have been posted in the many ethics threads on here, and almost all of the threads express the same questions and opinions.

Reading of the other ethics threads might also answer questions that have already been posted a few hundred times. If any further discussion on ethics is desired, my suggestion is to take it to PM's.

I am locking this thread as I feel that it is repeating what has already been discussed over and over. If anyone wants help in locating other ethics threads, please PM me and I'll help.

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