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 Teaching about 419?

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Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Although I don't have children myself (...and grew up in the dark ages before the internet), I've often wondered what is being done in schools around the world to teach kids about internet safety and 419 scams in particular. With all the time young people spend online these days in chat rooms, sending emails, and so on, teaching them how to behave and stay safe is a big and important topic.

Not that a young child (or maybe even a high school student) is likely have the wherewithal to send money via WU, but I'm sure education is still the best way to prevent someone from becoming a future 419 victim. To us, the scam letters we read everyday stick out like sore thumbs. So, what if anything is being done (or should be done) to teach about 419 scams as part of a wider curriculum on internet safety?

It's just something I've been curious about. Any thoughts or experiences?

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JMRazor
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

In order for kids to be taught, the teachers would have to know about it, and from my limited experience as the father of two young children, I would doubt most of the teachers have sufficient exposure to 419 to understand it and then teach about it.

Not to get all haughty about it, but I feel it's my job, not the school's, to monitor and inform my kids about the perils of the internet (and the world at large). My oldest is just now using the internet (mostly YouTube videos of silly songs plus the dreaded Webkinz [if you don't know, don't ask Wink ], and I make sure to know what she is doing. As she gets older, this will, of course, get much harder, but I'm a sneaky bastard. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Some schools do attempt to give internet safety advice to kids, but things change so quickly that any attempt to put specifics into any curriculum is bound to appear ridiculous, especially when the instructors don't know much about such things themselves ("you should stay away from these things called Chat Rooms because there are bad people there"). General safety advice (akin to "bait safe") is given very often, in schools and elsewhere (especially to protect kids from predators of various kinds) and summarily ignored by a substantial proportion of kids. 419 advice? I'd hate to try and explain this to a class even at the high school level.

Quote:
Not that a young child (or maybe even a high school student) is likely have the wherewithal to send money via WU,


I think high school students definitely could, especially the sneaky sort who have obtained access to their parents' accounts in one way or another. Um, sort of like me when I was a kid (fortunately I was too timid to actually try anything).

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JMRazor wrote:
the dreaded Webkinz [if you don't know, don't ask Wink ],


I am glad I'm not the only one putting up with that. It's almost worse than the purple dinosaur Barney.

Back on topic, I agree totally with JMR. I think no matter what they try to teach at school, it is MY responsibility to teach about the evils of the internet. Not only that, by belonging to this site, and letting my kids see what I do, I really doubt they would ever fall for a scam, and if they do, I will take away their Webkinz.
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nalei
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't think schools should teach about 419 frauds in particular but about frauds in general. Students should learn to use common sense. People fall for scams a lot in real life too, not just via internet.

When hearing the story later, one can only say "how could have he been so stupid?"
But most of them are not stupid, just very naive. And school can definitly help with this problem with the right education.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is a thread I would like to comment upon, but I'm afraid I don't know the right answers. As a computer technician doing mainly domestic work, it is common to find families with top notch computer gear, and the kids the only users of any competence in the household. I agree with the other posts that a curriculum system would not be effective.
I also agree with JMR that it would be ideal for parents to provide the necessary tuition.
My favourite rant is about aged people acquiring their first "hand me down" computer. They ARE susceptible to 419, and I have seen several cases of this. I don't see how you could legislate to require an appropriate adult to acquire the necessary skills to teach children good practice. OTOH, private one on one tuition costs an arm and a leg.
So I think we're stuck with computer literate parents having to accept responsibility for teaching their own children.
As for the multitudes of others, the answer eludes me.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Having taught kids longer than most of you have been alive, I have concluded that this is the only approach to learning that really works.

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Klaasvaak
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You tought children by Electro shock therapy?

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packman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That works for me. give my grandson a fork and a hardhat tell his to go play electrical inspector. (just kidding) Laughing
his father on the other hand. Shocked

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Having 6 of those animals (children) resident in the local zoo (aka household) and with 5 of them being in the 11 to 15 year age range - I feel it's MY responsibility not choice as to 'supervising' or at least 'attempting' to be aware of their activities.

Of course mine: on occasion do some of the research involving fake sites for/with me, and help with maintaining our household network; so are generally more aware/knowledgeable about IT and AFF than most of their friends and teachers.

edited to add) Often practical experience instead of book theory does seem to encourage retention of knowledge. Wink

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Last edited by justjay on Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Klaasvaak wrote:
You tought children by Electro shock therapy?


You betcha Twisted Evil

Reserveonderdelen de staaf dan verwennen van het kind
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JJ I like that , your teaching the kids about scams that will help them later in life and spending quaity time at the same time. plus they can go out and help spread the word .
the family that baits together... skates together... or somthing like that Confused

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Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@Gold Hat: Laughing Laughing Laughing

@JMR, JJ and others, I certainly agree with your comments that education is a responsibility for the parents and only so much can be done in the schools (not least because many teachers don't know about 419... that's a good point!).

How about any younger members here? What were you told not so long ago by your teachers or parents about internet safety? Were the messages just about sexual predation or did you talk about other risks too?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Reserveonderdelen de staaf dan verwennen van het kind


I don't know what you tried to translate, but this is wrong in so many ways.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Reserveonderdelen de staaf dan verwennen van het kind


Babelfish - Dutch to English wrote:
Reserveonderdelen then spoil the bar of the child


I get sort of something maybe meant as similar to 'Spare the rod, spoil the child" ?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If we could drum into everybody
A nothing is for free
B if it sounds too good to be true it is
C why should a total stranger want to make you rich


But i have answered my own queston they put smoking kills on cigarette
packets Sad

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

~ justjay,

JJ - you got it - KV wouldn't get it 'cause he is probably stoned on tulips again.

Klaasvaak wrote:
Quote:
Reserveonderdelen de staaf dan verwennen van het kind


but this is wrong in so many ways.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well Fortunately the lads themselves provide so many good teaching 'aids' that is is easy to illustrate this kind of scam.

In general I feel that internet scamming shouldn't be any different than other types of scamming. It's all part of what you teach your children. That's why it's called healthy skepticism. Doesn't matter if he sees it on TV, an email or a couple of guys selling 'white box Marantz' components out of a van.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm not so sure I would want the same government which has failed so miserably at doing anything about even the rare scammers inside our own borders to attempt to educate my children about the scammers... Shocked

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr. Green wrote:

How about any younger members here? What were you told not so long ago by your teachers or parents about internet safety? Were the messages just about sexual predation or did you talk about other risks too?


I'm not sure I qualify as a younger member anymore....

But I was taught that nothing comes free. If it looks like a scam, it probably is. Nobody will ever give you a free ride, you have to work for your own breaks. Cash doesn't just fall into your pockets. You need to work hard to get somewhere. Hard work is the only way to get monetary gain. And above all, if someone emails you who you don't know, ignore it or delete it.

That came from a combination of a 70's upbringing, an 80's education, a 90's course in common sense, and a 2000+ self education in the internet.

What I'm saying is that no-one is responsible or at fault. A savvy person comes from a background of a variety of good sources.
A vulnerable person comes from a variety of failings.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sore spot here!

:rant on

I would rather teach my child about this my own way.

Public Schools fail miserably at education of any kind IMO, and I want my son well informed about predators and scammers. He may not be able to multiply numbers properly until he is 40 or so, but he will be able to smell scam and scum a mile away.

Granted, with me being in Network Security, I have one up on a lot of parents, but it still does not excuse the parents from their responsibilities.

It is a crying shame that the schools have to teach children about stranger danger when their father and/or mother is sitting home on the couch, drinking beer, passing gas and screaming at the TV because a football team fumbled the ball. I see this all of the time and it's too much!

/rant

Sorry for the ravings of a lunatic.

B

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Betelgeuse wrote:
.

It is a crying shame that the schools have to teach children about stranger danger when their father and/or mother is sitting home on the couch, drinking beer, passing gas and screaming at the TV because a football team fumbled the ball. I see this all of the time and it's too much!

And at the same time the parants that arnt there to help with the child because they have to work late because their cereers are more important. so the over schedual the kids for sports,karate,ballet,play dates,ect, so they dont have to be bothered with nurchering of their own flesh and blood, " honey I know your a busy doctor and im a busy lawyer but let have a kid so that our life can feel complete and have someone else raise him/her for us".[/end rant]

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

At 31, I didn't really get any scam-related or internet safety training at school. My parents were not computer savvy, either, but they did instill a useful sense of skepticism in me.

I think, more than anything, teaching kids how to use logic/think things through would be a useful curriculum addition. Thinking skills seem to be a mite neglected. And more than anything, teaching them basic banking/money/budgeting/life skills (which they covered for me in middle school, about the 7th grade, at least some money handling and checkbook balancing, through a community program called "Junior Achievement" or something similar) would go a long way.

I get the feeling some people may tend to fall for scams because they have few resources, don't know how to manage what they do have, and have no clue how banks actually operate. They view a scam offer as "hitting the lottery". And lotteries, as the joke goes, are a tax on people who are bad at math.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Having been raised around a lot of animals I was told "it bite you" which I could totally comprehend instead of "no no". One bite from an artic fox and I get the point. So I think we should teach the children of the world "it bite you" if they think someone from the internet is going to make their life better by giving them money, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I STRONGLY believe that it is the responsiblity of the parent to educate their children on internet safety. When it comes down to it, IMO, a parent should think of school only as a nice helper with the ABC's and 123's, not a substitute for guidance, morals, or common sense. Im pretty young, mid 20's and I cant remember one teacher saying anything about internet safety, ever. Kids now days are online @ 2, heck my toddler can work webkinz like nobodys business. Its a huge information gap we are finding ourselves in right now. You cant leave something as important as safety and security to be taught by somebody else, thats like handing a kid a loaded rifle and saying oh his teacher will teach him weapons safety!

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