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Roycropper
Baiting Guru
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 7992
Location: Luxury Coffin
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:45 pm |
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Jim is at the Western Union office, sending $293 to Usman for his barrister fee. He makes a mistake and sends $239 by accident.
This is called a transposition error. They teach you at accountancy school that if you have a difference after adding up numbers, try dividing the difference by 9. If it goes exactly you may have transposed 2 numbers. In this case 293-239=54. 54/9=6. This always works. The first number it works for is 12 (you cant transpose 11) 21-12=9
I was explaining this to Hayley last night as it was part of the answer to a much more complicated puzzle. My question is WHY? I know it does work, but there must be an explanation.
Answer me this and I'll show you a good magic trick that uses this principle. |
_________________ the European Union has bounced on our freckles
COULD YOU IMAGINE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN I WENT TO THE BANK
our Agent is Completely broke, pocketless and stranded
I WLL SEND AN AFRICA WITCH TO ATTACH YOU BASTARD
You go die like bird
i started shouting HALLELUJAGOBBLE but none of them notice me immediately police arrested me due to the shouting
f*ck u asshole ur damn mother will loose ur fcuking skull brain ur brain is nothing to compare with rat f*ck ur u
MY FRIEND ALEX WAS DETAINED IN POLICE STATION
I am not happy due to the question i answered at money office. Let me tell you do not play with me ok.
x4 6Yrs x6
Last edited by Roycropper on Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chibuike
Master of Master Baiters
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 693
Location: My corner of the world...
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:49 pm |
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er um, I wan't good in math. Thank God for calculators! |
_________________ "I didn't know Oscar was a pimp!" Chibuike
"simple....go fuck a tree trunk" Phillip Johnson
<--I got ponies! Wahhooo! |
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Klaasvaak
Baiting Guru
Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 2163
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:54 pm |
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budanzig
419Eater is my life
Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 267
Location: Flying low with a high velocity
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:02 pm |
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Here you go Roy:
Any permutation can be obtained by a sequence of interchanges in
which we swap one pair of digits. So it is enough to show that the
difference is divisible by 9 if we swap any two digits. (You can fill
in the details.)
Suppose the digits of the number are a_n ... a_1 a_0, so that the
value of the number is
a_n*10^n + ... + a_i*10^i + ... + a_j*10^j + ... + a_1*10 + a_0
Then if we swap digits a_i and a_j (I'll assume i>j), the new value
will be
a_n*10^n + ... + a_j*10^i + ... + a_i*10^j + ... + a_1*10 + a_0
The difference is then
(a_i*10^i + a_j*10^j) - (a_j*10^i + a_i*10^j)
= (a_i - a_j)*10^i - (a_i - a_j)*10^j
= (a_i - a_j)(10^i - 10^j)
= (a_i - a_j)(10^(i-j) - 1)10^j
So we can prove our goal if we can show that
10^n - 1 = 9k
for some k, for any positive integer n. (Think about writing such a
number out, and you will immediately see that it is true; but we
still need to prove it.)
Now consider the polynomial
x^n - 1
Since it is zero when x=1, it has (x-1) as a factor. For example,
x^2 - 1 = (x+1)(x-1). |
_________________ Opie and Anthony - XM202/Sirius 197
Check out Jim Norton's new book - I Hate Your Guts |
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bill2
Baiting Guru
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5495
Location: Yeah who can tell me where I am?
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:02 pm |
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simple:
first digit=a
second digit=b
You claim (10*a+b) - (10*b+a) = x times 9
10a+b-10b-a=9a-9b so what's there to understand |
_________________ I don't do bling, I just do lads |
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packman
Elite Baiter
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 1498
Location: In his own little world but it's ok, they know him there.
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:05 pm |
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(scratching head) huh? |
_________________ Pancratic Cancer is beyond suck.
Our Forum Mods. can beat up your Forum Mods
SB Eye Regime.
The receipt you send is totally invisible ok-Kelly
FUCK YOU SMALL BOI YOU ARE POOR IN HEAD AND SOUL
AND GOD WILL PUNISH YOU FOR SCAMMING HOUNST MEN LIKE ME.. Segun Akintemi
Click here to support 419Eater.com
<-- I got a pony WAHOO
x3 |
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bill2
Baiting Guru
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5495
Location: Yeah who can tell me where I am?
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:19 pm |
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Okay in numbers then pick two for me. 2 and 7 ? Thanks
he says 72 - 27 is a natural number times 9, so I write
(70 + 2) -(20+7) = 45 or 5 times 9 so he is right, now when I fill it in with letters you can see that it is alway a 9 no matter what the digits are. |
_________________ I don't do bling, I just do lads |
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packman
Elite Baiter
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 1498
Location: In his own little world but it's ok, they know him there.
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:32 pm |
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ahhhh I think I got it |
_________________ Pancratic Cancer is beyond suck.
Our Forum Mods. can beat up your Forum Mods
SB Eye Regime.
The receipt you send is totally invisible ok-Kelly
FUCK YOU SMALL BOI YOU ARE POOR IN HEAD AND SOUL
AND GOD WILL PUNISH YOU FOR SCAMMING HOUNST MEN LIKE ME.. Segun Akintemi
Click here to support 419Eater.com
<-- I got a pony WAHOO
x3 |
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bill2
Baiting Guru
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5495
Location: Yeah who can tell me where I am?
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Posted:
Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:50 pm |
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Good and budanzig wrote down the same a bit different, but I'm lazy |
_________________ I don't do bling, I just do lads |
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Roycropper
Baiting Guru
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 7992
Location: Luxury Coffin
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:54 am |
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Ok cheers, now I can explain it to Hayley.
TRICK:
Take your phone book, find page 108, count 9 names down, and write that name and number down. seal it in an envelope
Ask someone to pick a 3 digit number, or 3 people to pick a digit each. Write that number down. Then reverse it, and write that down. so for example we have:
459 and 954. take the smaller number from the bigger one.
954
459 -
495
Reverse that number, ie 495 becomes 594, then add those 2 numbers, The result is always 1089. Ask someone to turn to page 108 of the phone book, and count down 9 places. The name and number will be the same as in your envelope!
If the answer isn't 1089, you made a mistake.
As far as I can get my head round it, you have only transposed the first and last digit in stage 1, (the middle one stays where it is) so the number 9 rears its head, no doubt due to the earlier proof. The difference divides by 9, in this case 495/9=55. It also divides by 11, as far as I can see.
When you add the 495 to 594, look what happens:
495
594
You always get 2 9's on the middle, flanked by one either side. So the 9's are in the ratio 1:2:1. 121 x 9 = 1089. QED, kindof. (121 also = 11 x 11) - confusing myself now, but it's true.
Now try this on your mugu. If you can get your hands on a Lagos phone directory, all the better. |
_________________ the European Union has bounced on our freckles
COULD YOU IMAGINE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN I WENT TO THE BANK
our Agent is Completely broke, pocketless and stranded
I WLL SEND AN AFRICA WITCH TO ATTACH YOU BASTARD
You go die like bird
i started shouting HALLELUJAGOBBLE but none of them notice me immediately police arrested me due to the shouting
f*ck u asshole ur damn mother will loose ur fcuking skull brain ur brain is nothing to compare with rat f*ck ur u
MY FRIEND ALEX WAS DETAINED IN POLICE STATION
I am not happy due to the question i answered at money office. Let me tell you do not play with me ok.
x4 6Yrs x6
Last edited by Roycropper on Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Breddan Butter
Retired Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 4170
Location: Soligorsk, Belarus
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:54 am |
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Roy,
You should explain that, when you ask someone to pick a number, the first and last digits must differ by at least 2, otherwise the trick won't work. |
_________________ Можно заплатить кредитной карточкой ?
Пошёл на хуй, мудак !!!
(x4)
My IP address is 217.21.39.255. (86.57.134.49 on Sundays) Please don't come knocking on my door. |
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thud419
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 3193
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:08 pm |
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^^^ I disagree. The sole condition is that the first and third digits are different, which can be assured by asking the audience for three different digits, although the value of the middle one does not matter.
OK, Here's how it works:
You have a number abc. let's assume a > c, because otherwise you would do the subtraction the other way round, which confuses things without changing the argument.
abc - cba = def
From our previous proof, we know that def is divisible by nine. However we could have done:
ac - ca = gh, and gh would also have been divisible by nine.
We know that a > c, and therefore there must be a borrow in from the tens column, but b=b, which means that there will also be a borrow in from the hundreds column.
So in both cases the borrows are the same, and therefore g=d and h=f.
Now we have def is divisible by nine and df is divisible by nine. It follows that e must be divisible by nine, and we also find that it is a result of a zero subtraction minus a borrow of one. It must be 9.
d is the result of the subtraction of two single digits, less a borrow of 1. It can never be 9.
df is divisible by nine and therefore d+f is a multiple of nine. The only values of df that can cause us difficulties are 99 and 0. Neither can arise given that a > c and d < 9.
Our second stage is def + fed = 1089
We know d+f = 9 and e = 9, giving the 121*9 result analysed above. |
_________________ Click here to feel warm and cozy.
I did not f**k your wife in any way -- Nike Akanbi
I don't know what else to do or do I continue filling and filling forms. -- Barr. Koloti
you has been dribbling me up and down but I will show some thing you have never seen before, I think you breath air wait and see. -- Barr. Cole
x14
x 0.25 won from Reaper in a sucker's bet
x8 x several |
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Breddan Butter
Retired Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 4170
Location: Soligorsk, Belarus
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:03 pm |
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That's all very impressive.
I tried Roy's 'trick' with the initial chosen number of 413, and then again with 514.
It doesn't compute to 1089. |
_________________ Можно заплатить кредитной карточкой ?
Пошёл на хуй, мудак !!!
(x4)
My IP address is 217.21.39.255. (86.57.134.49 on Sundays) Please don't come knocking on my door. |
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seton
Not quite a Newb
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 57
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:32 pm |
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^^ I guess you know this, but what you should be doing is 099 + 990 |
_________________ "i have sent to you the Death and the deposit of the late deseases.please do not use them against me." - Barista Williams. |
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Willy
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Currently... Iraq. :(
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:33 pm |
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Technically it does as long as you maintain 3 digits.
413
-314
_____
099
+990
_____
1089
Its one of the oldest mentalism tricks in the book. I always use a "prediction" on a piece of paper and fold it up and clip it underneath the clip on the pen so I cannot "change" it. Then have them use the same pen to do the work. |
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Breddan Butter
Retired Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 4170
Location: Soligorsk, Belarus
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:41 pm |
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seton wrote: |
^^ I guess you know this, . . . . |
Guess again; I didn't know that, and it sure wasn't obvious to me.
Thanks for the enlightenment. |
_________________ Можно заплатить кредитной карточкой ?
Пошёл на хуй, мудак !!!
(x4)
My IP address is 217.21.39.255. (86.57.134.49 on Sundays) Please don't come knocking on my door. |
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bill2
Baiting Guru
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5495
Location: Yeah who can tell me where I am?
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:54 pm |
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depends how you do it
number=413 reverse=314 diff.=099 reverse of diff.= 990 then it works.
Those fl**ing mathematicians
You should have a new restriction not a>c but a > (c+1) and then it works. And of course c > 0 |
_________________ I don't do bling, I just do lads |
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Dott. Giascopato
Elite Baiter
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 1174
Location: Germany
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:12 pm |
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Hm....
Mrs Hildegard Wilhelm was quite surprised when I called her and asked how she managed to get the entry in my phone book. |
_________________ Dott. Giascopato
non importunare.
Some from: x7
Failure to complies with this order require a severe act by the mets and
purnishment by law. (The Metropolitan Police)
fork off.. ([email protected]) |
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kleindoofy
*** BANNED ***
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6248
Location: Europe
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Posted:
Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:29 pm |
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