Innocent 3rd parties

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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:48 pm

This is an interesting thread, and sorry to threadjack it...but...someone suggested we send them to MG. Both of my baits are trying to get me to MG them the money. Can they check it online or by phone to verify?

So why highjack the thread then feel sorry? Rolling Eyes

- drwho

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:09 am

MOneyGram doesn't provide the option to check it online, so they always go to the office.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:13 am

I love ethic`s threads Laughing

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:03 pm

IF WU is not an ITP, can the same thing be said about MoneyGram?

What about the other wire transfer services?

What about Banks who handle bank-to-bank wire transfers?

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:04 pm

@bobcat,

No they are not, since this is all part of their daily functions.
It's like asking if Yahoo is an ITP, since we send bait mails to their servers.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:59 pm

I have a question that is kind of off topic but still withing the overall ethics of "I"TPs subject.

My lad is insisting on a phone number and I'm thinking of giving them the phone number of the Westborough Baptist Church. They are the group that does the "God Hates F**s" protests at funerals of AIDS victims and veterans. Basically, I would have my lads waste their time crank calling the jerks for me.

Would this be unethical?

Master Baiter Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 156

ladyreverenddr wrote:

Would this be unethical?

Yes, why don't you use the phone service of one of the eater members instead ?

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:35 pm

This would ruin your bait btw.

IMHO, this wouldn't be unethical, but they still are ITP.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:44 pm

The IPT rule refers to making people who are not aware of the bait, part of the bait story. If you tell the lad that the bus driver is a secret spy, sent to protect him - then you are making an ITP play a role he would not ordinarily play (even if it is only in the lad's mind). If, however, you tell the lad to take the bus - you are not putting any expectation for the bus driver to be anything other than what he is, a bus driver. In the case of Western Union, the employee's job is to check to see if the number the customer has is valid, and either give him money or tell him it isn't valid. This would be true regardless of whether or not you send the lad there. They are an ITP, but you are not involving them in your bait, which is the point.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:10 pm

kurat wrote:

MOneyGram doesn't provide the option to check it online, so they always go to the office.

Or call on the phone. You can check them by phone too.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:38 pm

jojobean wrote:

Or call on the phone. You can check them by phone too.

Really? DAMN! I went to MG and got me a 2cent transfer, I wanted to send him my 2cents. Sad

Now, he'll be able to call and verify the amount, before he drags his butt down to the MG.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:17 pm

I have never had a lad call there...at least none have confessed.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:07 pm

I'm posting here just in case the mod comment in my sig becomes relevant.

And to say that Search is not your enemy, Search is your friend. Search gets you pink ponies. Search saves everyones time. Search is good! Wink

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:04 am

Picking up what US_Spook said.
Can they check the amount of the transfer or only if there is a transfer with that number? That goes for both, WU and MG.

I wouldn't mind to actually send them 0.50HKD (given there are no fees I have to pay, but I guess there are) just to make them run to WU to pick it up.

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:18 am

There are fees. But I was willing to pay 9.99 for sending my 2cents.

Yeah I am dumb like that. Smile

But I am curious if they can call and check the amount...hmm, maybe I should just call? And check on my own MG...

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:23 am

Well, 10USD is a bit more than I'd be willing to invest for that. Anyway, I guess here the prices are different. At lunchtime I'll have a look to see how much it costs here.

But anyway, would be good to know first if they can check the amount.
Would be so great to see the lad's face when the WU-guy gives him 10 Naira (given it's a Nigerian lad), for stick to my example of 0.50HKD...

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:27 am

This whole point was argued last year. If I can find the thread I'll post it.

Basically, although WU is a third party, they are in business to transfer money. the lad is sent there to collect money. Nothing else. It is the WU employee's job to provide the service the lad goes there for. So it isn't the same as sending a package to a hotel. It isn't their job to receive packages. It would be a third party involvement if you told the lad the WU service lady want to go out with him and he should ask her out. That would be an innocent involvement.

I read the other posts now and see that bearkat419 said the same thing. Sorry to be re-quoting him. It is an important concept to make clear.

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:33 am

Theres a sure fine way to eliminate 99% of the scams in Nigeria: Close down all WU and MG branches in the county. There are already companies that dont deal with any African countries because of the high volume of scamming activity so I think WU and MG should do the same.
Yes, its a sad fact but for the people in Nigeria who are legit they should just use direct bank deposit or payment by cheque or money order.
The fact is WU and MG should know better. They must get thousands of calls every day from angry victims and it must be having some effect on their intergrity.
I know they are only conduits, but they have the power to stop it in their tracks, because they would know what is going on. The fact is, they let it happen anyway because they ALSO make money from it.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

rootuser and us_spook: You may want to rethink sending a legitimate MTCN to a lad. Yes, it would make you look like a more credible victim, but the lads could also recycle it while it's showing as a legitimate payment and send it off to victims to make themselves look more credible too.

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:15 am

Good point Ima. Thanks for this info.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

@justinv-

Do you really believe what you posted? If so, I'd encourage you to read a bit more.

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:29 am

justinv wrote:

Theres a sure fine way to eliminate 99% of the scams in Nigeria: Close down all WU and MG branches in the county. There are already companies that dont deal with any African countries because of the high volume of scamming activity so I think WU and MG should do the same.

Good solution. Then the millions of people there who depend on support from relatives in other parts of the world can just starve, whilst the scammers move on to direct bank transfers (as many already have). Confused

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:54 pm

Or Paypal. Or scamming people by sending fake checks or using stolen credit cards, to buy something (without the "cash back" part)....

Never underestimate the scumminess of scammers. Just when you think they can't go lower, they get out the shovel and dig.

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:27 pm

Quote:

Theres a sure fine way to eliminate 99% of the scams in Nigeria: Close down all WU and MG branches in the county.

So, your master plan is to put hundreds of MG/WU employees out of work simply because they happen to be trying to earn an honest living in the most corrupt country in west Africa. Nice! Crying or Very sad

I wonder what they are going to do then?

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:33 pm

@US_Spook: Were you going to tell him what he can do with the 2 cents?

I know what I would tell him to do with one of them.