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 Camden insurance fraud?

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D11
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

First they demolish half the famous cosmopolitan market, then they increase the ground rents significantly.

And tonight all i can see from my window is flames and smoke, looks like someone got careless with matches.

If you are planning to travel around camden dont bother its locked down tighter than a cheap hookers panties after her cab home.

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friday3
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

???

How did you come to the conclusion that it is insurance fraud?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I was out in Kensington tonight and decided to head for home fairly early. I avoided Camden luckily but I saw it on the news when I got in.

Funnily enough, I said to the wife once we were back, some parties were looking for buying and refurbishing some parts of Camden Market, but they were turned down.

My first comment was "Well it wouldn't cost much for someone to torch it anyway would it?"
Looks like that may have been the case after all.

EDIT: @ Friday: It would seem that some developers had asked to buy, with the intention of knocking down some parts... because of that they'd been turned down. It seems a possibility that they "might" have burned it to get to redevelop it anyway.

Just speculation of course, but it might explain D1's comments about the insurance.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Bitter old cynic that I am, whenever I hear about a building that's been the subject of planning/developing battles going up in flames I assume it's deliberate. There was a former pub/hotel near here that stood empty and neglected for years because the local council wouldn't grant permission for it to be renovated as a residential nursing home. After yet another Council/Developer face off the whole place went up in smoke the following weekend.

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D11
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

im only speculating, it wouldnt be the first time, especially when the local free rag only a few months ago was saying it would be better for the traders if it all "went up in flames" -

Its still raging, theres orange glow and a lot of white smoke billowing down our street, it may be under control but its still definately still burning.

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mrbigtime
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Believe it or not...

Your fire just made the nightly news here in texas, I'm guessing Brittney Spears must have stayed in tonight Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

<br>Eye witness on BBC News 24 says the fire started on a billboard which then spread rapidly to various buildings in the market. Sounds like a prank that went wrong? No doubt the forensics will shed some light on it.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The fire featured in ABC news in Melbourne, just after a report of a suicide bombing in Iraq and followed by a report on a murder inquiry (local) and then Heath Ledger's funeral.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm in the next borough over and opened my window late last night and I could smell the smoke Crying or Very sad Whether it was fraud or not, it will probably result in the same thing - bits of the market being redeveloped. Evil or Very Mad

There are many stalls selling hot food though and the place is so crowded, I can believe that an electrical fire or a stray cigarette caused it.

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm sure the reporter's words of Camden market being a tourist hot spot were a slip of the tounge ( on the World Service last night. )

I wonder if the Fairy Goth Mother shop and other such clothing places are OK. Think there were a few located in that area.
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D11
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

im off out to survey the damage and take some pictures,

(and dont worry i havent revealled my locatation camden is a very very big place - plus im only here for another week or so)

The bbc has some pics from last night, im going to use an instant camera so it will be at least thursday before i show the pics - got to get em put on cd, but i will have some unique ones for us to see.

EDIT - it wouldnt have been a careless smoker - theres no smoking anywhere inside the market - from friends they thought a bomb went off, then it all went quiet till the first fire engines arrived - they think it began deliberately as people are saying it began in an alleyway - suggesting arson.

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Hekate
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Nanny Ogg wrote:
I wonder if the Fairy Goth Mother shop and other such clothing places are OK. Think there were a few located in that area.


I was wondering about that myself! Crying or Very sad

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sadly it seems a lot of the "altenative" clothing stores based there are affected.
Ahhhhh
Some have online stores so here's hoping all the good stuff was stored in the garage not the trading premises.
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D11
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Its difficult to get anywhere near it,

Image

The red circle is where the fire was, the red box where people were evacuated, as you can see the area OPPOSITE the market went up in flames, most of the shops damaged were on the corner and the block under the bridge, the pub on the corner was destroyed, as were 3 shops on the front, 2 on the side road and multiple stalls and sheds for stock, which ones i dont know.

The police wont let anyone directly into the area - its all blocked off from some distance so most wont realise where the fire is until around thursday or friday so i put it on a map for you. The actual place where cyberdog is wasnt affected - to traders its a loss of millions of pounds - the stables on the other side WAS open today. the bridge does not look to bad - but guess who i saw - 2 property developers lol, they want lockside so they can build multi-million pound apartments - even the local police said "its a suspicious one - although for now they dont know more than that and to go read the news website"

But i think they said enough, the fire is only yesterday and today lockside property guys are taking notes lol - i dont know but id guess there now dancing to the money they will make - most traders were uninsured - i found that out earlier, but the market is insured for millions.[/url]

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Seems like alot of the places I'd have been interested in may have been affected.
bbc linkimplies they know where the fire started.

been a weird day.
Heard a rig in the North Sea been evacuated in a security alert, then ....
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D11
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Camden is cursed.

This morning at around 9am the 24 bus had its roof ripped off, 6 injured.

Due to a diversion because of the fire the 24 was diverted down a low bridge road and of course had the roof ripped off - just like it had a few weeks earlier.

So if we are accurate the fire has so far injured 6, although its not direct. The curse of camden strikes again...

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this transaction is 100 percent risk/hitch free - bobo

why no pay me - abum bello
because the cops will know it was you - me
ok this is good - abum bello
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haywood_jablowmi
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I read that Ken livingston is going to come up with an aid package for the market traders to stop them going out of business. hmmm isn't that what insurance is for, and if you don't take it out, isn't it your own fault?

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D11
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Apparently a lot of the traders couldnt get insurance, but they are "working for a living" so theres a moral thing there - its cheaper to get them back on there feet than it would be to provide benefits etc for them.

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why no pay me - abum bello
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

~ Nanny Ogg,

AFIK the fire was on the East side of Chalk Farm Road. Fairy Gothmother and most of the other funky stalls are on the West side and so should be unaffected. Shame about the Hawley though...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

blimey my ex g/f will be happy then, i reckon she kept fairy gm in business the amount she spent there - mind you corsets do look good!

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Nanny Ogg
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ Rosarch
I know a few folk that'll be happy at that news.




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Rorschach
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

For those that are/were interested, the only part of the market affected by the fire is the Canal Market, a map of which is here http://www.camdenlock.net/canmarket/cnmap.html.

Camden Lock itself, the Stables Market, Dingwalls etc are unaffected and remain open.

And for what its worth, I doubt any insurance motive, BTW. It'd be pretty hard to guaranantee a good blaze without using some sort of accelerant, which would certainly be detected by the Fire Brigade. In any sort of suspicious fire the first thing the rozzers would ask themselves is Cui Bono who benefits? And so the landlords would come under the spotlight. Camden must be covered by about a thousand CCTV cameras and given that the penalty for arson can (I think) be life imprisonment setting a fire deliberately would be a massive risk for the owners.

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irishemigrant
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^ Lads will do anything for money, don't discount the arson possibility

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Rorschach
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ There may be a few lad types who hang around the market, but I wasn't aware that they actually owned it!

From Ham & High website

Quote:
Around 50 stallholders and shop owners met with bosses from Camden Market Holdings at its headquarters on Castlehaven Road to discuss the future.

There were emotional scenes as the stallholders were allowed back in to the burnt-out canal market to survey the devastation.

But there was also good news for traders, as Camden Market Holdings vowed to double the money Mayor Ken Livingstone recently pledged to a recovery fund.

The landlord is also offering rent-free periods and money for the rebuilding of stalls.


..Doesn't look to me like they're about to whack in a planning application for a 10,000 sq ft internet cafe Smile

EDIT: to correct name of website quoted

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ I wasn't reffering to the owners, but the lads who will do anything if the right amount of cash is shown to them

As D-1 posted, it has been up for re-developement but held up, there's been too many of these fortuitous fires that just seem to happen when planning gets sticky

Not just in England

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