Microsoft Conspiracy?

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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:51 am

I have a client who purchased a Compaq Presario c500 notebook with vista Home installed, from a chain store. After crashing it 5 times in a month, I advised him to trash Vista and install XP Pro. However the tech support from HP/Compaq does not support this sort of treacherous conduct.
It turned out to be an onerous task. Nobody in Computer Command Centre wants you to resort to XP. All their support sucks. So does Vista.
However anyone having the same problem should try this site. It cuts through all the problems compounded by Microsoft and the Computer manufacturers.

http://divergex.blogspot.com/2007/02/install-xp-on-compaq-presario-c500.html

A dog was eventually transformed into a user friendly computer, thanks to the enterprise of the guys at this site.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:56 am

Its not a scam. Most of what they said in that article is basic knowledge anyway. In any case, its a marketing technique. A lot of people aren't ready for the transition from Vista to XP and therefore don't want to learn to use Vista for what it is. I personally love Vista. It has a much better out of box experience, has DX10, certain Vista-exclusive features, and future program compatibility. I say people should just get with the times, but to each man his own. I wouldn't expect tech support to recommend you "down" grade because they'd get in trouble for recommending inferior or old software. At least they didn't try to force you to pay 400 dollars for a XP Pro product key and setup disk.

Sorry about the rant.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:15 am

You have missed the point. You like Vista, fine. Your in the minority. It's about consumer choice. Anyone who wants to run Linux, or XP, or anything else should have that choice when they buy a computer.
The tech support should not be Vista only oriented. The client I mentioned is a 50 something almost computer illiterate male. He has an older desktop with XP, which he manages passably well.
He should be entitled to freedom of choice as regards software and opereating system.
You are obviously light years ahead of him in computer literacy. Therein lies the difference.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:37 am

Well I can see how I missed the point, but, technically, they don't have to offer tech support for something they didn't sell him. Tech support is often useless and I know for a fact that most tech support is trained to upsell unnecessary and superfluous software to try and remedy your problem. Personally, I would have done what you did in the first place. Now if the computer came with XP its a different story.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:18 pm

[smug]iMike's new toy [/smug]

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:30 pm

@ iMike !

Out of interest, what OS does it use? I'm totally Apple illiterate.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:35 pm

^^^Came loaded with OS 10.5 Leopard. Seems much slicker than the old 10.4. Only bought it yesterday, so I'm still checking out the features. Need to get hold of a copy of Windows XP SP2. If Boot Camp works, I can finally dump my old PC.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:45 pm

^^Forget boot camp mate, you have to restart every time to swap OS's, try this: [url] http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/[/url]
I'm running 10.5 and Ubuntu Linux at the same time (and could run XP too if I wished). It's an excellent bit of software.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o78/rodlong2k/IMAGE_007.jpg

Mod edit - image changed to link to prevent blowout, 600 pixels width maximum for images, please - SP

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:02 pm

@ iMike !

Googled. Found this in a review

Quote:

If I had high expectations for 10.5 back in 2005, they've only grown as the months and years have passed. Apple's tantalizingly explicit withholding of information about Leopard just fanned the flames. My state of mind leading up to the release of Leopard probably matches that of a lot of Mac enthusiasts: this better be good.

Maybe the average Mac user just expects another incrementally improved version of Mac OS X. Eighteen months, two and a half years, who's counting? Maybe we enthusiasts are just getting greedy. After all, as Apple's been so fond of touting, there have been five releases of Mac OS X in the time it's taken Microsoft to deliver Windows Vista.

Sounds like one reviewer is an ardent fan of Leopard. Apple has a different approach from Microsoft!

BTW, check out software on Ebay for SP2. I have found that prices there can be better than wholesale at times, particularly for XP Pro.

@ Rodus !

You didn't mention Vista. Please explain yourself! Most unpatriotic!

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:04 pm

^^ that looks interesting. I've bookmarked the page for future use. Still need to get hold of a full copy of Windows yet - my copy of XP is an update copy.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:07 pm

I wouldn't run Vista if you paid me, at work we are still sticking with XP because it does everything we need and we don't want to upgrade half the machines and spend months troubleshooting the OS. Microsoft knows Vista is a dud, hence the upcoming XP SP3: http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/xp_sp3.asp

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:23 pm

I've used Vista on a couple of occasions and found it very slow. Making an OS as big as Charles Soludo is a bad idea.
I remember when an OS only did a few things, like boot the system let you create/delete/move files etc. They seem to want an OS to be all singing and dancing affair these days. Trying to make all the different apps on a machine integrate, creates more problems than it solves as far as I can see.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:37 pm

@ Rodus !

Seriously, I cannot say I have ever had any issues of consequence with XP, or it's service packs. The only people who encountered problems were those who didn't practice user maintenance seriously. It's a pretty much bullet proof system.
In addition, XP never encountered any serious issues on networks running some Windows98 computers.
Vista tends to suffocate XP computers on a network. I wouldn't say I would not run it if you paid me, but I would certainly ask for a substantial sum.
The biggest downside for XP is the emergence of large hard drives. Anyone wishing to upgrade a hard drive to 200 + Gig has to purchase a new copy of Windows XP just to format the HDD. Just so I don't get corrected by a reader, I know Windows XP only formats to 130 Gig, but there are ways around this to 200+ Gig.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:07 pm

Does anyone realize that you are all playing into Apple's hands?

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:32 pm

Ex: How do they play into Apple's hands? Is it the same as you playing into MS Vista's hands?

While you enjoy Vista, you are in a minority. I know Microsoft employees that switched back to XP on their machines (home and work) because it's faster than Vista. The system is a resource hog, and you need a beefed up system to try and run it properly. When people moved with the time to XP, there was no real demand to have a brand new "XP Ready" PC... unlike Vista.

Afferbecklauder: You are right, it is about choices. Microsoft allows vendors to sell machines with XP (at least until June). I don't know if all vendors do it, but Dell is offering consumers the option to buy a system with XP.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:37 pm

@Ex, how? instead of buying Windows and playing into Microsofts hands? I'm not sure I get your meaning. I use a Mac because in my opinion it is a far superior OS, others use Linux and Windoze for the same reasons. We are all playing into someones hands.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:56 pm

@ HellRyder; I am a certified PC technician (A+) so I know how to think for myself in terms of what I want on my computer. I won't lie, Vista requires more of your PC than XP. However, it just goes back to what I said earlier, you can't expect more for less, simple as that. If all you do is get on the Internet and type a few documents, then stick with XP. After all I am an advocate of "Don't fix it till its broken". Just don't complain if you did something unnecessarily of YOUR free will and you decide you don't like it.
As for the Apple thing, don't you people realize that Apple is using the public's general paranoia of Microsoft to sell their overpriced crap? I swear to God if I see another $1399 laptop thats only sporting a 1.8 GHz processor and 1 GB RAM with a 8400M GS graphics card, I am gonna blow the store up. I spent exactly $1052 on my laptop and it out performs most iMac up to the $1700 price line. Its specs are Intel Core 2 Duo T7500 @ 2.20GHz, 2 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT. Its a simple marketing ploy and many people are falling victim to it. All people do by unnecessarily complaining about things is make it easier for Apple to get away with this highway robbery.

@Rodus I'm not saying that everyone should use Windows. To each man his own. Personally, I am considering dual booting Ubuntu. And yes, before people start asking, its possible to run Leopard on PC.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:43 pm

Ex wrote:

However, it just goes back to what I said earlier, you can't expect more for less, simple as that. If all you do is get on the Internet and type a few documents, then stick with XP.

What benefits does Vista offer to an advanced user? I do a wee more than just typing a few documents... please enlighten me...

Don't patronized people that know less about PC's than you (like Afferbecklauder's friend) and that basically have no choice when it comes to an OS out there... how many people that need/want a new PC/laptop know that they can get XP with it? The market push Vista, because that what MS wants to sell. Not anyone can afford the top of the line HW to properly support Vista, and that's on new PC's that come with Vista.

Apple does not work on fear... apple users are loyal to apple because they like it, not because they fear Windows. I use windows because of what I do, if my trade was better served with Apple, I would have bought apple.

As to the pricing of Apple -- it goes back to choices -- don't buy it.

Besides, if you blow the store, you will end up in jail, and they probably still have W95 (or worse, they'll have Apple)... I doubt you'll like it Wink

Edit: Typo -- the = they

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:50 pm

^Prisons have a special Micro$oft OS, it's called Bars. Embarassed

Yup, what Hellryder said, if you dont like it dont buy it but please don't patronize mac users here by suggesting that we are all suckered by Apple's marketing. I used to work for a major PC company building and repairing machines so I know the corners that are often cut to lower costs. I doubt your cheaper laptop has a screen or keyboard that will match an Apple one, thats the kind of thing you pay more for, along with magnetic easy release power cables and firewire as standard (which a lot of pc's don't have).

As far as Vista's overheads, one of my machines I'm running Leopard on is a G4 400mhz with 512 mb/RAM, and it is very snappy. Try running Vista on these specs...what's that?....oh, right, you can't.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:44 pm

@ HellRyder
Windows Vista Home Premium which is what comes with most retail PCs comes with a lot XP doesn't have. For example:

* Built-in DVD Codecs
* DVD Burning (Data and Movies)
* Instant Search
* Speech Recognition
* ReadyBoost and ReadyData
* DirectX 10
* Better network management
* User Account Control (I will elaborate on this further)

....among others. Go here for more info.

@ Rodus
I am not attacking Mac users. I'd go to the bitch thread for that, lol. Don;t even get me started on their fallacies they spread in the propaganda campaign. I'm simply saying that because people like to complain about things, often unfairly and wrongly, Apple uses this to their advantage. If you want to use a Mac, fine. But I don't like and don't think its right to just blast Windows because you wanna be malicious or don't understand the full potential of what you have. As for my laptop its 1440 x 900 WXGA+, has Firewire, a "zero insertion force" power cable, has HDMI output, and S-Video output. Also has a nice little design on the chassis and an infrared mini-remote that rests in the PCMCIA Type II port. I got my money's worth, believe me. I also seriously doubt that your claims are true as to hwo well Leopard runs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5#System_requirements.

As you both said, it lies within free choice. If you don't want Vista, then don't get it. Just don't get mad at Microsoft if YOU made the mistake.

As for User Account Control, I believe this is the greatest advance in securing PCs everywhere. Basically, it denotes all users to a standard level access and requires administrator privileges only when doing administrative tasks such as editing program files or installing software by stopping the program and giving you a prompt for the admin username/password before letting it continue. If your user account level is already admin level, you just say continue and you go on. What sets it apart, however, is that in WinXp, if you were an admin, any program could run and alter system files without your knowledge. In Vista, due to UAC, any program that tries to install, edit system and program files, change registry entries, access restricted system resources etc. will be immediately brought to your attention and you can deflect malicious attempts to compromise your computer.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:00 pm

^^Wikipedia is hardly a good resource for computer info compared to the tech sites out there, plus I'm actually using that machine and it is running fine. Sure I had to hack the installer to get it to install in the first place, due to 'official spec requirements', but thats no more then hacking it to run on a PC (which is illegal). Please don't accuse me of making this up as that is rather offensive. Just because Vistas system requirements are very high doesn't mean that every other OS suffers from this. You don't work for Microsoft do you? as you come accross as having some sort of agenda here.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:11 pm

Quote:

As you both said, it lies within free choice. If you don't want Vista, then don't get it. Just don't get mad at Microsoft if YOU made the mistake.

I hate to get into this but I have to.

"Free choice"???? As long as M$ approves it. If I try to exorcise my free choice by buying a new computer without an OS then install what I want, I can't. I *have* to get a computer with M$. If I want to modify my forced OS from M$ by changing how it runs, I can't.

How would I make the choice to not get vista? Yes some manufacturers offer some computers with XP. But not all computers tho. Just bought a laptop I wanted but couldn't get XP. I had to settle for visa. Was that my mistake? Was I given a choice? Yes I could have bought nothing, that was my choice. Does M$ have a service for the valued customer where they can exchange vista for xp if they make the free choice they don't want vista? If you know of one let me know.

M$ has admitted vista is a failure by allowing manufacturers to continue offering xp and to offer a SP3 for xp.

Notice the term "allow". In the past, M$ would not allow manufacturers to continue to support the previous OS. Is that "free choice".

Master of Master Baiters Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 593

Quote:

As for User Account Control, I believe this is the greatest advance in securing PCs everywhere...

Hasn't linux been doing that since, well, forever?

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:43 pm

@ DrWho - You can buy laptops with no OS installed easily. Same with XP. The choice isn't what you buy, its who you buy it from.

@ Rodus

I apologize if I offended you by questioning the validity of your claims. If you had to do some modification then that doesn't count does it? After all, we only talking about the average user-level stage of things, not "advanced" users. And it shouldn't be a problem to use Wikipedia to merely look up the sys. req. I myself, know that minimum system requirements are rubbish in many cases. But the spec you listed were so under teh sys. req. that I felt I had to question them. I don't work for Microsoft btw. I just know a low about computers and I fix them for a living.

@ MrMe

Its funny. A quick-lookover an internet article just brought this to my attention.

You guys are missing the point entirely. I don't care about each persons technological preferences. The whole point of the thread was to say that people should find a solution to the problem rather than talking about it. There is always a way, you just didn't look hard enough.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:46 pm

Yes. And most of what M$ promoted as innovative for vista (and even the parts M$ promised but remove from vista) have been in different distributions of Linux for years before. 3D gui, see through windows, I don't know what else is new in vista. Oh, M$ innovated the dancing paper clip and the dog that helps me search me hard drive. Linux doesn't have those.

Quote:

its who you buy it from

That only answers one point. Yes I could go to a lower level manufacturer. I thought about it. I do prefer to use the bigger names for the deals I can get and the warranty. At least I still have that freedom.

And I realize that vista has made Linux more impressive and driven many software and hardware companies to start supporting Linux.