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 webdesigners earn too much me thinks

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D11
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think some quotes for prices for php work are made by clicking random numbers in calc.

For a genuine website, I asked for the following:
    Member login using ssl & done with php
    Careful consideration to eliminate possible xss attacks and phishing
    scalable images and drop down menus to aid those with poor sight, and stop bots etc
    a basic guestbook thats searchable *(dont want to give too much away but thats about all it is)


Quote 1: 11,540 Excl vat
Quote 2: 2x3360
Quote 3: 10 (i thought thats a bit low considering everyone else is in the thousands.

16 quotes later and apart from the guy who said he would do it for a tenner the cheapest quote is 5,999 are designers suddenly getting paid top rates? i offer minimum wage, for 28 days work 5.60 an hour and i might consider hiring someone for the month.

EDIT: im not offering work plz dont pm me to do the job, im moaning about how expensive things have become.

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OxygenDeprived
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Wow, that's expensive... except for the 3rd grader who quoted you on the last one. Very Happy

I better pay attention for my PHP classes starting at the end of the month so I can earn that kind of money on the side soon!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Wow. I'm majoring in the wrong field. Smile
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Ivor Grimey Colon
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

*grins ear to ear and gets on with work for his Web Design degree*

And TBH, you are asking for some stuff requiring a lot of design considerations and coding expertise (to the extent that you'd probably want more than 1 person working on the site), so I wouldn't consider quotes in the range of your "Quote 2" unreasonable

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

goodbye medicine, web design is where the green is at!

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nomex419v2
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:09 am Reply with quoteBack to top

digital-one wrote:
EDIT: im not offering work plz dont pm me to do the job, im moaning about how expensive things have become.


Can I beg for it then..... Crying or Very sad


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D11
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@ OD yup definately go for the php, most work i would do myself, but when it comes to sites requiring login etc i leave it to the professionals to do the checks for exploits etc.

Ivor - yea it would have taken a team of four nearly a month to create, but most of that would be testing it against known stuff to see it doesnt fall over.

but still thats 1500 each for even the cheapest quote - a good wage - but overpriced by anyones standards lol.

As for the guy who offered to do it for a tenner - i dont think i even considered him, when everyone else was asking thousands he seemed to be too cheap or unaware of the real work involved.

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thud419
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That doesn't seem too expensive for outsourcing. The ball-park calculation for costs is to double salary, more if you've got employees who don't contribute to income, and then you've got to make a profit. I charge out at over five times my salary.

So for a guy on 20,000pa, you are talking 8,333pcm. Add in two PFYs on 15,000 and you've got a total of 20,833.

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rootuser
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

First of all: If the page uses SSL or not has no influence on the code. SSL is purely a web-server-thing, and PHP doesn't care if it's used or not as this encryption is completely transparent for the scripting-language.
If somebody would charge you for that, slap them. Except of course they charge you to apply for a signed certificate, which you will need if you don't want your unsigned SSL-certificate to act as a user-/customer-repellent.

As for security-stuff: Not only logins, but actually everything that computes user-supplied data can suffer flaws for code-/sql-injection.

Just one example:
You include pages through the parameter $_GET['page'], if you only use
Code:
include($_GET['page']);

and allow_url_fopen (or in later PHP-versions allow_url_include) is set to on this will allow the user to include an external pages which are executed within your code, and thus can do whatever your code can do, for example accessing the filesystem or database.

Testing for that kind of flaws takes time and expertise. And as said, everything that computes user-input (like form-data, passed parameters or cookies) has to be checked.
Code always has to be written with keeping in mind that ALL USERS ARE EVIL!
As said, checking for flaws needs a certain level of expertise, the programmer needs to know what are common points of attack and how to avoid them. This usually makes the code bigger than would be necessary to make it "just work", thus it takes more time.
And even when you think you did great, secure code, you still need to test it.

Then of course there are the differences on how the code is done. Is it just top-down programming without reusable passages, does it use functions for code that is needed more often or is it even object-oriented, so that certain codes is within classes that offer the most advantages in terms of adjustability and reusability.

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