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 This mugu is REALLY annoying me!!

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justinv
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Australia


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Most of us know that some scammers dont read the first one or two letters you send to them, but what if you met one who hasnt read the first three and still counting? I couldnt be bothered baiting this one so I basically abused him, but he just kept coming back for more. This is how it went:

Quote:
From xxxxxxxxx
Abidjan,Cote d'ivoire
West africa.
Dear,
I have go through your profil and likely to contact you for help so I have to introduce myself for, l am Miss. Rose Koffi, am very lovely person and l will like you to assist me to herite my fund in your country and l will live my life for you because l am the only daughter of late Chief and Mrs. Henshaw Koffi, I wish to request for your assistance in my efforts to procure the transfer of my inherited funds for investment ventures Overseas.

I have Five Million United States Dollars ($5,000,000.00) here in my name with one of the prime bank here in Abidjan and I will require your assistance in receiving the money for investment purposes. As it is my desire to come over to your country to further my education while you take care of the investment . I will be glad to give you 10% of the total sum for your co-operation.

I will be very appreciative if you can return to me with urgent dispatch to enable me advise you on the modalities.

I await in anticipation to receive your immediate response.
Best Regards!
With Love
xxxxxxxxxx
NB:Please reply to xxxxxxxxx


Then my first reply:

Quote:
How do I know this is a scam?

Because you live in West Africa!!


Of course I got a scripted reply, but this was expected:

Quote:
My Dear xxxxxx

How are you.I hope you are fine.
Thanks for accepting to receive the money which I inherited from my late father. I will depend on you for the wise investing of this money into a profitable business in your country.There is peace and security in your country so I want this money to be invested over there so that I can come over to you and start new life with education because I believe that good education will give me better furure .There was civil war in my country Ivory Coast since 19th September,2002.This war created much hardship and difficulties.Many people lost their lives.
The economic and educational system is bad because of this serious civil war which our political leaders are fighting for power.
As I told you in my previous mail it was my father that deposited this money before his untimely death. You will invest and guide it for me while I will come over to your country to start my education.

I will like you to give me your personal information so that I can submit to the bank where my father deposited the money so that they can make arrangement for the release of the money to you.I will inform the director of the bank that you are my family friend and my guardian.The information should include your full name,telephone number and address.

The informations needed.
Your fulll name
Your telephone numbers
You Home address
Your id card.

You will see my picture in the attachment and I am expecting to recevied your picture as soon as possible.
With love
xxxx


I still couldnt be bothered with this one, so I sent a reply to try and level with the lad:

Quote:
Whatever your real name is,
You obviously havent read my initial letter because instead I got a scripted reply. Also, I saw other email addresses on your previous letter, which means that you sent the same thing to a number of recipients. I just thought I should let you know that the people who respond to this sort of modality, are ordinary people like you and me who just want to find someone they can spend the rest of their life with. It is shameful to prey on people like that because you are ruining their lives. I have seen literally hundreds of scams like this and it sickens me that there are people out there who will do anything to make money even if it means destroying the lives of innocent people.
I know there are people in our countries who have exploited the wealth of your nations, and that you think 419 is payback for all this, but the fact is: you ALSO target innocent individuals who have done no wrong.
xxxx


"He who fights monsters should look to it that he does not become a monster, when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes at you"
Frederick Nietzche


...and did I get a human reply? NOOOOOO

Quote:
Hello xxxx,

Thanks for your mail and your information therefore l want you to know that this money is deposited in the bank here and l want you to help me recevied it into your bank account so that l will come to you and finish my education why you take care of the money for any business that you know that is why l contact you.

Now l will like you to please contact my bank here and ask them their details for the transfer and if the ask you any thing about me then you tell them that you are my family members that you want to help me recevied my money so that l can finish my studies ok.

Here is the bank contact.

BICICI - Banque Internationale pour le Commerce et l'Industrie en Cote d' ivoire.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(filiale de BNP-PARIBAS)
Contact Person, xxxxxxx
Email: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
TEe: xxxxxx
Swift: BICICIABA
Cote d' ivoire.

After you has contact the bank for the transfer then you up date me.
l wait to hear from you soon
Thanks and your's lovely
xxxxx


OK, right now ive had it with this one, so I sent a reply telling him just how I feel. Note that the title of this message was "READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY"

Quote:
Whoever you are,
You are seriously pissing me off!!!!! I have sent you 2 replies and I get 2 srcipted responses. You are the most irritating little 419 scammer I have ever dealt with, because you dont even READ the letters I have sent you. If you did, you would know that there is nothing I would like better than to implant a virus that would destroy every internet server in the whole of West Africa, so that everyone in your criminal enterprise would have nothing better to do than to actually get a job. You know what a job is dont you? Its one of those places where you actually do work and get paid for it. Why dont you look up the word "Job" in the dictionary, and you will see what I mean. 95% of the whole world does it, so I dont see why you cant.
xxxxx

...and what do I get: ANOTHER scripted response:

Quote:
Hello xxxxx
Happy new year with your family

l want to know if you has contact the bank for the transfer and try to up date me your out come with the bank ok
Thanks
xxxxx


Now im not an expert, I dont have a Phd in 419ing or anything like that, but how the fudge can this scammer think he will make money by not reading ANY replies?
I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT!
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D11
Elite Baiter


Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 1702


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Try writing back in FRENCH, its quite possible your lad doesnt understand any english at all and is purely sending a script waiting simply for the magic 10 digit numbers.

It does indeed seem very very strange, they might not understand french either but its worth a try or simply drop them from that account and aesm from a different account see if the result is the same.

Either that or someone took Jan 1st as Apr 1st and got very mixed up.

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Corona
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^That last sentence reminded me of April 1st, here! Laughing

Sorry, back to topic! Wink

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MattNW
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Try contacting the bank. It looks like your lad is very inexperienced and the bank contact is the one running the show.

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Cachuma
Baiting Guru


Joined: 04 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Did you send the bank info to Alan? That's probably a real bank account used by lads, that can be killed.

Also, I wanted to comment on this part:

Quote:
Whatever your real name is,
You obviously havent read my initial letter because instead I got a scripted reply. Also, I saw other email addresses on your previous letter, which means that you sent the same thing to a number of recipients.


One mantra around here is, never educate the lads. By telling the lad that you were able to see all the other addy's, you are educating him in how to make his scamming more effective. If he's not bcc'ing, that means that all his other recipients can see them too, and it might stop someone from replying who otherwise might have become a real vic. Once he realizes his mistake, he will fix the problem and become that much more likely to hook a live one.

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rumbero
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Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 3677
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Check the IP and see where the letter is coming from. This way you will know if the mugu speaks another language.
As mentioned, do not educate the lads. Most likely the mugu was just hired to send replies. The initial letter from the mugu will have a second e-mail for you to reply to.

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Mugatu
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Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 3773
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'll just echo what cachuma said, no matter how tempting, it's best not to just dive straight in shouting that you know he's a scammer. He'll eventually just work to improve his pitch, and we're not in the business of making lads better at what they do.

Also I was mildly concerned by this comment:

Quote:
How do I know this is a scam?

Because you live in West Africa!!


I hope you didn't mean that in the way it came across.

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justinv
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Australia


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The idea of my first reply was basically so he would either give up, or to push him into lying about his location, which I think would make him more likely to be caught out by a potential victim.
For example, I had a scammer trying to tell me that he was in London. When I told him a couple of times to meet me at this bar in Bethseda (London), I never heard from him again.
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mrsbean
Elite Baiter


Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 1775
Location: North of the Rio Grande, South of Alaska


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

justinv wrote:
The idea of my first reply was basically so he would either give up,


Not much of a benefit to have him give up and move on to someone who might be more receptive.

Your average lad won't give up even if you flat out tell him you know he's a 419er and he actually understands you.

Quote:
or to push him into lying about his location, which I think would make him more likely to be caught out by a potential victim.


Not so much. All he has to do is invent a reason to be out of the country or a foreign official you now need to deal with or a sudden illness that leaves them hospitalized. Given that lads make a living lying, that doesn't exactly tax them. These barristers/international bankers/diplomats have very sudden bouts of foreign business trips or foreign relatives dying when it's convenient.

Not to mention, lads don't easily change their scripts. That's the entire point of a script. It's there, it's never-changing, you grab the appropriate email and send it out. You don't fine-tune every reply. That kind of defeats the purpose of having a script... Even if you rewrite the thing for him (which I did, once, as an experiment), a lad is not likely to change his script because of one pushy "victim" who picks at a weak link.

Quote:
For example, I had a scammer trying to tell me that he was in London. When I told him a couple of times to meet me at this bar in Bethseda (London), I never heard from him again.


With me, that's the exception, not the norm. If a little thing like poking a hole in their story put off most lads, most of my baits would die within a week.

And I echo the opinion he's probably only fluent in French, given he mentions C๔te d'Ivoire. French is the official language. English is not.

_________________
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Cachuma
Baiting Guru


Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 2284
Location: Blowing bubbles at 130 fsw


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

On the topic of educating lads -- the rule of thumb is, ignore or agree with the glaring mistakes, so they'll keep making them. Slap the shit out of them for things that AREN'T mistakes, to manipulate them into changing them so they ARE mistakes. The more screwed-up you can make their scripts, the less likely they are to nab a real one...and isn't that what this baiting is all about? Sure we use it for entertainment, but I think it's important to remember that the ultimate goal is (or at least should be) stopping them from making money off victims.

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Master Nicholas [email protected]: I must confess that i am higly obliged to be a cretin, it is a rare privilegde.
pony pony Safari = Mr. Mandl4 & Mr. Brown, 1480 total miles: Johannesburg to Gaborone; Gaborone to Maun; Back to Gaborone; back to Johannesburg.
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Murry Guru
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What Cachuma said,

Baiting can be loads of fun but there is a serious side to it that does involve real people who have been or about to be scammed.

The fun of baiting will attract new people to the sport who in turn will help to frustrate the scammers and save victims.

If nothing else is remembered or learnt the first 2 rules are essential.

Rule number 1 - Bait safe
Rule number 2 - dont teach scammers

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justinv
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Australia


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

There has been an update. Before this thread, I later wrote:
Quote:
I want to know if you have read the previous letters I have sent. Do get back to me ASAP regarding this.


And the scammer responded:

Quote:
Hello xxxxxx,

Ok kindly tell me the things you told me before then l will know what is in your mined

l wait to hear from you soon
Thanks


So it looks like this time I havent educated the lad because he doesnt even know what I wrote. This is kind of weird because the lad could simply go through his inbox and fish out the previous letters, so I guess this means I can make up anything I want and start the bait.
The question is, why did it take 4 letters to finally get a natural response? At least now we know 2 things:
1. The lad CAN speak English (assuming its the same lad)
2. (If its the same lad) He is incredibly dumb.
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mrsbean
Elite Baiter


Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 1775
Location: North of the Rio Grande, South of Alaska


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Lads are often lazy. If they weren't, they would more likely be going to work and breaking a sweat or exercising a brain cell at a legitimate job. They want lots of money for very little (or preferably, no) work, or they wouldn't be scamming. Why should he spend thirty minutes looking through his inbox, weeding your reply out from the other dozen or even hundreds of magas he's working, or worry about the emails he's already permanently deleted if he can get you to tell him again? After all, he's offering you millions. Shouldn't you be willing to repeat yourself?

Another couple of points. "Understanding" is not the same as "fluent". Can I hazard a guess at the gist of a written paragraph in Spanish or French (for example) and occasionally get it more or less right, maybe even draft something of a coherent reply in the same language, especially with the aid of an online translator, without losing more than 40% of the meaning in each direction? Yes. I've done it a few times when emailing non-English speaking foreigners. Does that mean I can go to France or Mexico and summer there without the aid of a professional translator? No. I can understand some Spanish, this does not make me fluent in it, nor does it mean my reading comprehension would be very good if I attempted to read Don Quixote in Spanish.

If by "incredibly dumb" you mean "not fluently bilingual", you're calling quite a lot of people "incredibly dumb". Including myself. If the lad is fluent in French (Cote d'Ivoire's official language) and can "get by" in English (which is NOT an official language of Cote d'Ivoire), then he's exactly in the same boat I am when it comes to languages.

_________________
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I believe that you cannot get this type of opportunity again till you enter grave, you are such a bounch of stupid that I have never seen. - Jerry Gezi
Heaven help us, I've started publishing my baits in a blog... If you want to learn how to straight bait, thisaway...
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Mr Otto
Master Baiter


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
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Location: Anytown, USA


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

~ justinv,

It looks like he's trying to bait you. Laughing

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-First of all,I observed from the beginning that everything I did provokes you which I have never experienced in my life.

-As for me I have a strong Christian upbringing which thought me to “do unto others as you want them to do unto you” which is the golden rule. my only worry is if my 50% share is safe with you not after we have secured the fund in your possession you will now change on me.

-I am not afraid of death hence I know where I am going. I know that I am going to be in the bosom of the Lord.

-I am pleading to you to forgive me because if there is not quarrel, there will be no forgiveness.

-Be careful with their e-mails so that your parcel will not be in danger with their evil planes.
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luckey
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

~ justinv,

Could be you've been passed up the line. The person who answered that one may not have read the others. Has the email address changed slightly?

Many of them work on volume. They spam off of huge mailing lists and have grunts answering the first few. If they think they've got a good maga, they'll pass it up, or start reading. The test for that may not necessarily be the content of your email, but simply the number of replies.

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justinv
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Australia


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

By "incredibly dumb", I mean it has taken 4 letters to finally get a human reply. Most scammers either take 1 or 2. My theory is that I have just encountered the laziest scammer of all. He cant be bothered "breaking a sweat" as you said, so he has developed a script, then a scripted response, then a second scripted response, then a third. How would it ever work? The victims response might be "Whats the catch?" then after the first response, the victim might reply "You havent answered my question", then after the second the victim might say "For the last time..." then another sripted response. The irony is he is even too lazy to be a scammer.
As for the language barrier, I thought so too until I got a natural response. The fact is, if he could respond naturally on the fouth letter, he could have done so on the first or the second.
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ChainYanker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have to agree, your lad has deservedly earned the title of "mugu".

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Cachuma
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We like lazy mugus. Means they make more mistakes, resulting in more twigged vics. Very Happy

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Alex Mandl4: The past week has been the worst in my entire life, I have lost weight, I don't sleep at night, I left my job abruptly, and do you think it has been easy for?
Master Nicholas [email protected]: I must confess that i am higly obliged to be a cretin, it is a rare privilegde.
pony pony Safari = Mr. Mandl4 & Mr. Brown, 1480 total miles: Johannesburg to Gaborone; Gaborone to Maun; Back to Gaborone; back to Johannesburg.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am surprised this has not been mentioned previously:

    1. Read the Stickies.
    2. Sign-up for a Mentor.
    3. Bait Safe.


--J.D.

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manbiteslion
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

mrsbean wrote:
If by "incredibly dumb" you mean "not fluently bilingual", you're calling quite a lot of people "incredibly dumb". Including myself. If the lad is fluent in French (Cote d'Ivoire's official language) and can "get by" in English (which is NOT an official language of Cote d'Ivoire), then he's exactly in the same boat I am when it comes to languages.


In fairness it's not MENSA smart to scam in a language you can read - even poorly! It'd make more sense to search out French victims...
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luckey
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^It's possible that lad is just doing a job. He's might be one of many grunts just getting paid to copy/paste and push buttons. Reading may not be part of his job description.

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mrsbean
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Posts: 1775
Location: North of the Rio Grande, South of Alaska


PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

justinv wrote:
By "incredibly dumb", I mean it has taken 4 letters to finally get a human reply. Most scammers either take 1 or 2.


Not in my experience. Most of the ones I bait (And I'm not picky, I bait everything that lands in my inbox) stick to their scripts almost completely. If you can get one off script after a half dozen exchanges, that's generally a triumph.

Quote:
My theory is that I have just encountered the laziest scammer of all. He cant be bothered "breaking a sweat" as you said, so he has developed a script, then a scripted response, then a second scripted response, then a third. How would it ever work?


As I said, that's typical scammer modus operandi. Especially for lower level lads. They don't lovingly handcraft replies for every person who emails them. The time and work involved would be too great. They're working the numbers, they make profit on volume. They bombard hundreds. Maybe 10% reply, they send out a scripted response, and they work hard(er) at the ones who continue to reply. The longer a vic replies, the greater the chances they will invest in the scam. Maybe one of those hundreds pays a few hundred dollars. In some scammer haunts, that "few hundred" that a victim decides to risk may be more than a typical year's wages. Which makes it worth it.

For that matter, as luckey pointed out, the first few replies may have been received by a "catcher", a low-level scammer who doesn't really deal with the victims other than sending out scripted replies. When someone appears hooked, he passes them on to someone "higher up" with better scamming/language skills and more experience.

Quote:
The victims response might be "Whats the catch?" then after the first response, the victim might reply "You havent answered my question", then after the second the victim might say "For the last time..." then another scripted response.


Again, language barriers and a need to believe tend to cover a multitude of sins. People who want to believe that millions are waiting for them are going to write that sort of behavior off. It's especially true of romance scams, where the scammer is playing, say, a beautiful Russian woman.

_________________
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I believe that you cannot get this type of opportunity again till you enter grave, you are such a bounch of stupid that I have never seen. - Jerry Gezi
Heaven help us, I've started publishing my baits in a blog... If you want to learn how to straight bait, thisaway...
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mrsbean
Elite Baiter


Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 1775
Location: North of the Rio Grande, South of Alaska


PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
In fairness it's not MENSA smart to scam in a language you can read - even poorly! It'd make more sense to search out French victims...


You mean "a language you can only read poorly"?

Let's talk numbers again.

Approximate estimate of French speakers worldwide from some translation service website = 129 million.
Population of the United States alone, around 2007 = 301 million.

Supposedly, more than 70% of web content is in English (circa 2001), yet nearly half of users are non-native English speakers.

http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2001/112101/English_could_snowball_on_Net_112101.html

English is pretty much the de facto "lingua franca" of the internet. If the idea is to target as many people as possible in the shortest time possible, you're going to email people in English. If they happen to also be non-native speakers who also have a tenuous grasp on English, that may even be better for you.

ETA: Indians, in particular, are coming online at a great rate. They speak English, and they're starting to become victims of (mostly) lottery scams at a pretty alarming rate, if my experience at a victim information/support site is any indication.

I expect it's the same theory behind why most of the spam I receive is not in say, Chinese or Russian, but English, no matter how poorly translated.

_________________
Night of the Deaded Banks - 6 x United Kingdom United States Netherlands Spain Ivory Coast Mortar x26
I believe that you cannot get this type of opportunity again till you enter grave, you are such a bounch of stupid that I have never seen. - Jerry Gezi
Heaven help us, I've started publishing my baits in a blog... If you want to learn how to straight bait, thisaway...
Straightbait

Nifty anti-scam sites of interest
Artists Against 419 | Fraudwatchers |Scamomatic | Scampatroll Scam Victims United | Fake Checks Dot Org
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justinv
Wannabe Baiter


Joined: 11 May 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Australia


PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have decided how im going to bait this one. Basically I am going to mess with his mind by sending HIM scripted responses until he twigs that I am taking him for a ride. Hopefully he will be as annoyed as I was and he will start replying with some colourful language, then I will send him ANOTHER scripted letter and so on. This could be entertaining because I am looking for some good siggy material. Or if he is "incredibly dumb" he might just keep replying in the hope that he will get me off script. Here is what he been exchanged since I last wrote:

Quote:

xxxxxxxxxx,
In the previous letters, I have stated that I am more than happy to help you. I am familiar with your situation and I have helped many people in african nations who were in situations similiar to yours. I want you to know that the company I represent endeavours in every possible way to relieve the burdens of decent people like yourself, hence our willingness to help you out of your predicament. However, due to the new anti terrorism legislations that have been introduced into this country, there needs to be a record of money being paid into our account, in order to justify subsequent payment of the necessary advance fees to realease your funds. This fee is CPI adjusted, and varies according to what country the fee would be coming from, therefore I will enquire to the British chamber of commerce as to what the fee from IVORY COAST would be today. Please reply back as soon as you receive this so I can prepare the nessersary paperwork in order that this transfer will abide by the new anti terrorism legislation.
xxxxxxx



Then a response:

Quote:

Hello xxxxxxxxx

Ok send me the information and l want to know if you has contact my bank so that the can tell you how you will recevied my money in your account ok.
After you contact the bank kindly get back to me.
Your's
xxxxxxx.


Then another script:

Quote:

xxxxxx,
Thank you for agreeing to the conditions that we have previously stated. We have contacted the British Chamber of Commerce, and we have been advised that IVORY COAST is currently a level 6 terrorism threat due to the deterioating security situation and the most recent MI6 intelligence reports on rebel movements throughout the country. The fee that you would need to pay us in order to legalise the business relationship with an IVORY COAST partner is 653.17GBP. Please advise us as to how you prefer to pay this amount and when you have done so, we will use the reciept of payment to legalise our business realationship with you. The British Chamber of Commerce has also advised us that the maximum amount we are allowed to pay you to cover whatever expenses you may incur is 75'000GBP. I have made the decision to offload 75'000GBP worth of shares in order to free up our assets so that we can pay the maximum amount as soon as we have legalised our business realationship with you. Do get back to us as soon as possible if you have any queries regarding this.
xxxxxxxxxx



That is all for now, but firstly I should mention that this NOT a cashbait. Even if the scammer really is that dumb I will just keep sending him scripted replies until he finally blows his top. I wouldnt be able to do it anyway because I am in Australia so the scammer would be suspicious if I told him to send the money here. The purpose of this is to see how much I can mess with his mind by sending HIM scripted responses, because everytime he replies I will just send him another script.
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ChainYanker
Collecting TShirts the Hard Way


Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 1497
Location: Shouting "Fire!" in crowded theaters across America


PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Perfect!

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