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 Just how much money....

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Shiver Metimbers
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

...do UK ATM machines actually hold on average?!

Was it really worth all this work:


Quote:
Tunnel gang targets cash machine

Image

An audacious plot to break into a cash machine was foiled after workmen found a 12m (40ft) tunnel heading towards it. Workers at a building site close to Fallowfield Retail Park, Manchester, uncovered the tunnel dug out from a nearby railway embankment. The shaft, just about 6m (20ft) short of its target, had electric lighting and scaffolding support. Greater Manchester Police said they were treating the digging of the tunnel as part of an attempted burglary.

Workers were digging into the ground near the retail park to lay electric cables when they breached the top of the tunnel. The 1.5m (5ft) high passage, supported with scaffold poles and boards, has now been filled with concrete.

Police sealed off the area near the Blockbuster store to examine the site on Birchfields Road, Fallowfield, after being alerted on Thursday morning. The entrance of the tunnel was found at the embankment of the railway line which runs behind the retail park.

A wooden trap door, covered with soil, hid the entrance to the passage, which was only accessible with a ladder. Inside, builders found a wheelbarrow and shovels the would-be thieves used for digging and moving earth.

Mick Duffy, from Stainforth Construction, told the BBC that his fellow workers puzzled over the discovery before realising what it was. "At that stage we've notified the police because it is looking very strange and it would appear somebody was tunneling from outside the site boundary towards the cash machine. "It's very well constructed, a semi-professional job with lighting, a fresh air supply and very well shored and lined out."

The railway line behind the shops is a busy route which supports frequent trains between Manchester Piccadilly and the airport. It is believed the thieves were planning to dig a hole under the machine and then move it away through the tunnel.

It is not known how long the gang had been digging - or what they did with all the soil.

Image



Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6966764.stm

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TheGreatOok
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That just seems like way too much work for an ATM robbery. It didn't sound like there was anything else in the area though.

I sit here and try to think of anything else it could be for, but it all seems like a lot of work with little pay off. Might as well be working honestly....

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JMRazor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'd be on the lookout for a very muddy Charles Bronson....

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kleindoofy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

shiver metimbers wrote:
Just how much money ... do UK ATM machines actually hold on average?! ...


Just after being filled or after everybody's been using it? Wink
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wokabo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

where I live (where the best beer comes from) most ATMs have 50000 Euro, the more frequently user 100000 Euro. I suppose UK atms hold a similar amount. OK KD, when just filled

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luckey
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I know of one that has a 12,000 note capacity. In the US, they usually dispense $20 bills. What would you do for $240,000?

Maybe it was a larger ATM?

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Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

UK Cash machines used by large banks normally hold around 50,000 each.

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Mugatu
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ I've heard a similar figure as a bottom estimate Shiv.

I believe that when full they can contain up to 80,000 sterling.

Not quite worth all that effort for a share between at least 4, and the chance of a period in chokey. Not if you ask me anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Maybe they weren't tunneling for the atm at all. Maybe they had their tin hats at the ready and were gonna use the tunnel as a secret hide out or maybe they were really gonna tunnel all the way to London and kidnap the
queen!!! Shocked

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Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It doesn't make sense to me either, but some people will sometimes put in an incredible amount of work for the sake of feeling that they are getting something for free.
If you offered the very same people a simple job for 20,000 a year, they would still pick a 10,000 share in a robbery and a risk of a prison sentence.

But anyway, here in the UK we let paedophiles walk free from court and lock up old people who don't pay taxes.
Perhaps crime does pay, provided you aren't ripping off the government in some way.

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kleindoofy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Cole wrote:
... people will sometimes put in an incredible amount of work for the sake of feeling that they are getting something for free. ...


True. A few years ago in my city I overheard a conversation while waiting for a bus. It turns out that three (criminally minded) men had spent three entire days driving around the city in a car looking for someone who owed them money. Yes, three men, three entire days, plus gas.

The man they were looking for owed one of them EUR 25.

Confused

That's the equivalent of an hourly wage of ca. 35 cents/man.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Was it (Sir) Alex Ferguson trying to bury his empties?

The only thing that surprised me about the news report is that the Blockbuster chain is still going. Shocked

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I asked my brother who used to fill these things a few years back told me this:

Quote:
depends a lot on location; mall/popular drive-up ATM=150K-200K, casino=500K


A lot of work, but also a lot of potential money. I guess if you have the time to kill... Rolling Eyes Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You're all looking at the obvious. Less obvious is the possibility that they might have wanted to remove the entire machine for the purpose(s) of:

1. Reverse engineering; see how it's constructed, how it's locked, wired, alarmed, etc. They want to know the best way to break in to it; how to circumvent the alarm, what kind of lock secures the access doors so they can have master keys made. They might want to see how the machine is secured to the building, or ground, etc. Makes it much easier to steal from them if they know the machine inside and out, and have an actual machine upon which to practice.

2. They might have wanted to take the machine and install it in a high-traffic location for a day. They could easily disable a real, fixed machine (stick an "out of order" sign on it) and then set their own machine up as a temporary replacement. Set it up in the morning, remove it in the evening...wait a week and then do it again 100 miles away.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Down south the crims prefer a JCB, drive up, hoick out the ATM, drive off. So much quicker and easier.
Building an extension to the Northern Line seems an awful lot of hard work.
Shame the Police couldn't have kept it secret and waited for the diggers to come back.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Typical ATM cassette holds 2000 bills. Most machines have at least four cassettes. So depending on the denomination in the machine and the traffic it sees you can get a general idea.

It would be worth more alot of times to steal the entire machine depending on the type and resell the it in some fashion.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

http://www.atmmarketplace.com

A quick search revealed models with capacities ranging from 7,000 to 12,500 per machine. Filling the larger unit with 20 notes would give a maximum capacity of 250,000, although in practice at least one cassette would probably be filled with 10 notes.

I recall a craze among the criminal fraternity for using diggers to literally tear ATMs out of bank buildings, also a Daily Telegraph cartoon showing a JCB driver queuing patiently to make a withdrawal.

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Cole
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

ATM's are quite well put together here in the UK and the idea of digging under the machine does kind of make sense.
If the ATM alarm is triggered due to tampering die packs go off in the note cassettes making the money worthless.
Also, if the alarm isn't triggered from someone tampering with the ATM and the ATM is successfully removed by thieves the alarm will be triggered when theres a certain distance between the install point and the ATM.
Finally, if the two methods of setting the alarm off aren't triggered there is a remote trigger for the die packs so that the money can still be made worthless.

So, when you think about it the idea of a tunnel isn't as crazy as you might think.
The machine may not detect tampering if it's carefully lowered into the tunnel and may not travel enough distance to set off the alarm either.
To top it off, if nobody actually knows the machine is being tampered with, stolen or may be getting cracked, then nobody will trigger the die packs by remote.

I'm sure there will be newer protection methods as well.
It's a clever, but stupid idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think they were just enacting The Red Headed League

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