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 What about the EFCC?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Call me a dreamer, or maybe I set my hopes to high... but have you guys heard of the EFCC? http://www.efccnigeria.org/

They do "investigate" advanced fee fraud, but I wonder if they make arrests when it comes to that. I know Nigeria is so full of our lads that arresting each and every single one of them would fill up their prisons quickly, but what about some of the more cynical scams like a death threat scam? Those punks deserve some good hard smack downs. As such, I'm thinking about trying (key word there "trying") to lead people some of my pets on safari... and it would be nice to lead them into an arrest. Has anyone made any progress or done any research in the area of hooking up an arrest in lad land?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

EFCC has been around for a while, even some lads use names of EFCC personal.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yeah I know the lads like to imitate officials from that organization, but can we actually get officials in lad land to work with us on arresting some of these guys? That's mainly what I want to know.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

A few people have signs in their signatures, which means an arrest. I am guessing most of those would have come in western countries rather than Nigeria, but you never know.

PM one of them and ask how they did it perhaps?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't know, I think..that they don't really like baiters (don't hold me against this)

The general public doesn't like the EFCC much as they think the scammers bring more money into nigeria. They have a hard time, a more senior member may shed some light

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

There is a great video showing a cafe bust the link is here somewhere.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fLn86Q4wSM

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:27 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Reaper wrote:
The general public doesn't like the EFCC much as they think the scammers bring more money into nigeria.

Whilst I'm not Nigerian, if I was trying to do business, or even living, there I'd hate scammers more than anything else in the world. They've torn Nigeria's reputation to shreds.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Neither can I, but I remember a video in which 60 minutes (I think) went with the EFCC when they made some busts and I remember the presenter saying that "They had to do it as quick as possible, as the public don't like the EFCC, they think scammers bring in money from the Western Countries.

Of course it is 60 minutes...

EDIT: The video harrya posted is an example, some of the Nigerian general public begin to start throwing stones at the EFCC...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:32 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well we have to remember that the "general public" of Nigeria has been hit with a lot of scammers. It's not that everyone there is a scammer, it's that the general public sees so much of it that it's no longer appalling to most of them.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Josh wrote:
Whilst I'm not Nigerian, if I was trying to do business, or even living, there I'd hate scammers more than anything else in the world. They've torn Nigeria's reputation to shreds.


Maybe, but the vast majority of Nigerians don't give two flips about the effect of their country's reputation on their international business. What they do care about is seeing wealthy scammers spending money at their roadside stand which they otherwise wouldn't have. Perhaps more importantly, the high-ranking scammers spend money on "charitable" projects. Roads have been paved, schools built and public transportation systems put in place using the money gained from 419. Those improvements impact Nigerians' daily lives far more than what the rest of the world thinks about them.

Of course, the scammers gain too; often the improvements are made in order to make them look good in the public eye, which is the first step to a chieftancy or other position of power in the tribal system of government currently in place.

What would change public opinion? Not much; any attempt to remove the scammers' access to money would be seen by the public as an attack on their well-being, and it wouldn't work as long as free enterprise is alive and well.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

full auto wrote:
Yeah I know the lads like to imitate officials from that organization, but can we actually get officials in lad land to work with us on arresting some of these guys? That's mainly what I want to know.


I think you'll get some EFCC officials to offer help you out, but it'll cost ya. They're as corrupt as they come. In my opinion they're as criminal as the lads. Perhaps more so because they betray the public trust. The 419 game is a funny business in Nigeria. If you are a successful scammer, then your village loves and adores you. If you are not successful, then you are not looked upon in a favorable manner. The video link above is a fine illustration of that. Those lads must be making some money for their Oga, who in turn infuses a bit of the cash into the local economy. Watch how the gathering crowd reacts to the EFCC's crackdown on the cafe.

My guess is that as soon as the cameras went off and the EFCC van made it back to the station, the fighting began over which official got to take what computer home with them. Nigeria has a culture of corruption that goes wayyyyyyyyy back. Seriously, you're not likely to get any help from the EFCC or any other agency there.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Strangely enough, I have just been contacted by the EFCC. What a coincidence. Apparently I have been scammed out of a lot of money, and need to fill in a really crappy form and send it back.

To a yahoo.fr address. Hmmmmm....
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Recent arrest report from the EFCC after a bank asked nicely.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bustyn_Yuhrass wrote:
I think you'll get some EFCC officials to offer help you out, but it'll cost ya. They're as corrupt as they come. In my opinion they're as criminal as the lads.


Supposing all luck swings my way, and the world is suddenly set aright by someone willing to help me at the EFCC... how should I approach contacting them? Nigeria is full of corruption, even up to the government and law enforcement level. So should I approach not giving away any information about the art of scam baiting/the eater? We don't want to educate lads, so educating the corrupt government officials/law enforcement would be the same right?

Shaky ground I'm thinking.

edit: Thank you (insert appropriate mod name here) for moving this to the right location. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Josh wrote:

Whilst I'm not Nigerian, if I was trying to do business, or even living, there I'd hate scammers more than anything else in the world. They've torn Nigeria's reputation to shreds.


Yeah, seems crazy right?

But still, as others have said, the locals don't care about the macro effects, they don't see the big picture.

Now obviously there's some that do, but the general person on the street in a small town full of scammers cares not.

Why?

The scammers buy their milk, the scammers buy their bread, the scammers buy the houses the local mason builds, the scammers buy the clothes the local tailor sew etcetera. So you can see that for the locals, the money coming in from scams is a good thing, they only see the carrot.

On a 60 minutes report a couple of months ago the EFCC swooped and arrested some guys and the locals (non-scammers by the look of them) came out onto the streets, hundreds of them, and started throwing rocks and rioting against the EFCC and the media crew.

As I said, it seems crazy like you mentioned, but that's life.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Red wrote:
the locals don't care about the macro effects, they don't see the big picture.

Now obviously there's some that do, but the general person on the street in a small town full of scammers cares not.

Thats one sweeping generalisation. What are you basing that on exactly?

Red wrote:
non-scammers by the look of them

Excellent. I had no idea it was so easy to spot the difference. What should we be looking for?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:

Thats one sweeping generalisation. What are you basing that on exactly?


Nothing. Pure interpretation of the situation on what I've read and seen. Two reports I watched about the EFCC and the local economies surrounding scammer rings suggested that the locals derive a benefit from the scams vicariously through increased localised wealth. The locals, it seems, are not interested in international trade, but rather their own situation. I would suggest this is a much more natural response than thinking "well, the scammers bring in money that wasn't here before... but I sure do wish the Westerns thought more highly of my country's trading ties".

But hey, like I said, I'm sure it's not all locals, but I for one would be surprised if this wasn't the effect of scam income.

Quotes such as "In Enugu... the locals drool over Emmanuel Nwude's (scammer) wealth" from The News, 3rd June 2003, suggest this is not isolated.

Quote:
Excellent. I had no idea it was so easy to spot the difference. What should we be looking for?


A market full of people buying and selling food, clothes and other goods and going about their daily business while the raided internet cafes were full of the lads... if they were scammers, they were very busy scammers, what with having other jobs and all. Unless of course the entire town were scammers... which I personally feel is a little less believable.


I also thought this was an interesting read of the general attitude:

Quote:
The main defence of the Nigerian authorities is to claim that the scammers are mostly from other countries and that any Nigerian who participate do so because of high unemployment and, above all, the greed of victims.


Seems, from that tid bit anyway, that it is more excusable than we might think Sad .


Incidentally Fishe, you're 100% right, my comments were rash and generalised, but it was simply my own interpretation and I should have emphasised that. Thanks for pointing out the idiocy of my comments, sometimes it is easy to carried away without realising it Embarassed .

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr Fishe wrote:
Red wrote:
the locals don't care about the macro effects, they don't see the big picture.

Now obviously there's some that do, but the general person on the street in a small town full of scammers cares not.

Thats one sweeping generalisation. What are you basing that on exactly?


Res Ipsa Loquitur. The fact that the lads operate with impunity in a public place without fear of reprisal indicates to me at least, that the locals condone what they are doing. Qui tacet consentire videtur! If I witnesses the next door neighbor dealing drugs on a daily basis, and never bother to do or say anything about it, one could probably safely assume that I don't care about what they're doing.

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Old Coaster wrote:

In the 18th century, European traders sat in hulks and trading posts at the mouths of the Oil Rivers, Badagry and other sites and were well used to the ridiculous amounts demanded by Nigerian traders for Palm Oil, Ivory and Slaves. Serious negotiation was involved and people like John Holt are on record complaining about the difficulty of dealing with the locals

I grew up in Nigeria long before oil was discovered in the Niger Delta. The culture of Southern Nigeria has always admired those who can make money without working and I have scam letters going back to the 1950's.

Us Old Coasters became increasingly irritated with the outrageous prices demanded by traders for Nigerian Craft work as the tourist business increased and naive tourists (usually Americans) paid the initial prices asked which could be up to 20 times the going price elsewhere.

The somewhat "jack the lad" culture of southern Nigeria combined with the stupidity of foreigners showed how easy it was to make money from the white mugus and intelligent scammers soon developed the 419 scams, initially via fax and then via the internet. The white mugus are becoming wiser and so the Scammers are now turning to other markets such as Asia, China and Latin America


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Watch out, KD is going to run over here and start kissing you with all that latin! Wink

Good points on the EFCC though -- it's just there so the Nigerian officials have something to point to when asked what they're doing about electronic fraud. It's not uncommon for the EFCC (or those impersonating the EFCC) to raid cyber cafes and haul the whole lot into jail. How do you get out? Well, I suppose you could protest your innocence and wait for your trial. But more normally, you wait for your family members to show up with enough money to pay your way out.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I suspect that the most worrying thing for Nigerians (and foreigners in Nigeria) -- if the EFCC is as corrupt and inefficient as it appears to be -- is that the EFCC is also responsible for combating terrorism!!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

While regular Nigerians are probably not concerned too much about international trade, they are deeply upset about the perceptions of their nation abroad, the endemic corruption and the rampant crime. To say that people weigh up either international trade or what benefits me personally suggests that every Nigerian is happy to turn a blind eye to fraud if they can make a few extra bucks. Decent, hard-working people will always be pissed off at criminality, just as they are anywhere else, because fraud is crime and decent people think crime is wrong. There are plenty of decent, hard-working people in Nigeria.

Of course, this is also all anecdotal and based on what I have read over the years. Ive no idea what percentage of the population admire the scammers and what percentage despise them, and I doubt anyone else does either. Nigeria is a massive country of over 100 million people, with all the varying outlooks, politics and opinions that brings. You cant say that most of these people support scammers based on a few news reports.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ You're completely right.

My post was, although poorly explained, more referring to small localised areas where scammers are more rampant, like Festac Town. I by no means think that the majority of Nigerians support scams or crime, not at all. I'm really talking about locals (as in the few hundred who live in scammer populated areas) and the benefits they would no doubt derive from scammer money coming into the town.

There's about 130 million people in Nigeria, and whilst I made the mistake of making it appear I was referring to the general population I really was talking about a very minor percentage of people. My mistake was in the way I used the term "locals" in my head I see a country of 130 million and don't think of them all as "locals", but rather I was referring to small townships or suburbs where the scammers and EFCC operate.

Thanks for letting me clear that up. Smile

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I imagine the reality is a bit of both. Those directly linked to scammers such as the owners of internet cafes, or those selling high-spec electronics who would surely have their sales dramatically reduced without this money coming in may have a more positive attitude towards scammers. As Red says this would particularly be the case in areas with a high concentration of lads.

As for the rest of Nigeria (which would clearly be the majority) as I said above they probably hate scammers more than we do. This would especially be the case for those trying to engage in business relations with other countries. Regarding the government and the EFCC, well it's really difficult to say. What we do know is that Nigeria is one of the most corrupt countries in the world ( http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/001668.html ). At a guess, there are lots of people trying really hard to rid the country of scammers, but money talks, and it's the lads with the money unfortunately.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I am going to try and contact the EFCC tomorrow before I begin my daily tasks around here at the place. All pointers will be appreciated. My main concerns are as follows:

1. Finding out that they are corrupted officials.

2. Actually getting someone who will give a rat's ass.

As such, I plan not to mention the art of scam baiting or any anti-419 sites. I figure if these people are corrupt, why place valuable information in their hands (might be a money angle for them as far as giving valuable info to our pets). I'll probably take it from the angle of:

"I can bring in a few scammers directly to you for arrest as I've been using methods of psychological warfare/counter intelligence on them, care to have that happen?"

I won't play anyone in an official role, as that would be a crime in my country (impersonating an officer etc), and I sure as hell won't give out any personal info. Feel free to critique, provide opinions, or throw out any additional input as this is totally a new deal for me.
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