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 Lots of Money Orders and travellers checks

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Sam I Am
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 29
Location: San Diego


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I reply to every job offer that comes into my in box. I have collected many checks and now I am collecting some very convincing money orders and travellers checks. ( they are mailed to a safe address)
Does anyone know the source and cost (to the scammer) of these
Money orders and Travellers checks?

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Josh
Elite Baiter


Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Sam I Am wrote:
I reply to every job offer that comes into my in box.


I hope you mean your baiting inbox. It's not a good idea to respond to anything sent to an email inbox that has your real life name associated with it.

Not to be paranoid, but you need to separate baiting from your real life personality in order to bait safe.

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kleindoofy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Sam I Am wrote:
... Does anyone know the source and cost (to the scammer) of these Money orders and Travellers checks?


Rumor has it that most of those bogus checks are printed in Romania. Depending on the quality of the check and the lad using them, they can cost the lad anywhere from US$5 to US$25 per check.

Getting them to send you lots of them costs them money and is therfore a good thing. Thumbs up

But do so safely!
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Sam I Am
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 29
Location: San Diego


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I forward the "job offers" to my scam bait yahoo acct. and remove the traces of my real email address. Thanks for your concern ....

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I sent this directly to you via The Curse Of The Wicked Soul. Cradling the powers of the Orunmila to Wizard Of Ingoni, I have unleashed an army of seventy-two spirits and demons. The Eiye Efe will gaze from above as the summons of the spirits appear before your eyes. My cosmic powers have grown from the fears of deception and will reek havoc and spill the blood of the guilt. I have carved marks of evil into your conscience and your spiritual blindness will direct you to fall into the hands of proper authorities. The curse will begin when I attach this written segment of your soul you...
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Lester
Carrot Dangler


Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 2534
Location: Somewhere between here and there


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I have gotten a lot send to my box as well - some checks look very good others dont -

but NONE of the money orders i have received have had the water mark or heat sensitive part working

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Josh
Elite Baiter


Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Sounds like you've got a good system going there Sam. We often seem a little paranoid at times here, but it's just because we're concerned.

@ KD: sounds like cheque scamming is quite a costly occupation then, they'd need to hti the jackpot reasonably frequently to make it worth their while.

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kleindoofy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Josh wrote:
... they'd need to hti the jackpot reasonably frequently ...


They do. Sad
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Josh
Elite Baiter


Joined: 24 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well it is probably the most believable scam out there, as you do actually see the money in your account (although only briefly).

I'm really quite amazed that the banks don't end up legally responsible in these scams. They're the ones who have cleared the cheque and made you believe that it was real... yet you're the one who carries all the legal responsibility.

I'm sure someone will explain this more fully, it just seems to me as though the banks should be a lot more careful when it comes to clearing cheques of this kind.

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B. A. Ware
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^When you open a new account it's all explained in the small print that noone ever reads.

When you deposit a check into your account, your bank provides "provisional funding". Sometimes it's right away, sometimes it's after a few days. What you have to be cautious of is the word "cleared" because it isn't truly cleared. The check is sent to the issuing bank and then found to be fraudulant. This can take weeks or even months. Once the issuing bank refuses to pay, thats when your bank comes back to hold you responsible.

If the bank waited to provide funding to it's customers, noone would ever take a check for anything because they wouldn't get paid for weeks.

Always,
B. A. Ware

EDIT: Stell lernin to speel


Last edited by B. A. Ware on Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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sellingrich
Master Baiter


Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Far East LA


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

When I started out, I took a citi check to a branch and asked if they could authenticate it since it was a citi branch. No help. After a 5 min back and forth, the girl took it to the back, made a call, made a photo copy of it, and kept the fake original and gave me the photo copy. I'm sure i was photographed. Same thing at my b of a branch, "If you want to know ahead of time, fill this out, wait 3 weeks, pay this fee, and we'll let you know."
The bank has no interest in protecting mules.
My wife had her purse stolen. The thief wrote a check out to cash in PENCIL, printed my name for a sig. and took all the cash in the account with NO ID.
This was 20 years ago, so I hope security has improved. The cops caught the guy in a stolen car with his girl friend that had my wife's ID. I told the cops I wanted him arrested for fraud, forgery, ect..., They said the bank would have to press charges. Went to the bank...NOPE, not big enough. Man did I have it out with that manager. "You are telling me that I could steal a check, forge a sig, cash it for under $1,000.00 and get away with it?"
I don't use that bank, changed that day.

It's only the honest folks that get hurt.

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SlayerFaith
"Loves her joy stick"


Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Josh wrote:
I'm really quite amazed that the banks don't end up legally responsible in these scams. They're the ones who have cleared the cheque and made you believe that it was real.

No chance. Part of the fine print that BA mentioned is where you agree to take responsibility for any cheque that you deposit into the account. As far as the law is concerned, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that any cheque deposited is good.

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Josh
Elite Baiter


Joined: 24 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I guess it's a slightly counter-intuitive aspect of the law that clearly scammers take fully advantage of.

I suppose the alternative of your money not being available until the cheque has been approved 100% might mean that some cheques would take weeks or months to "clear" and that's why the system doesn't work that way?

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Red
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Joined: 25 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That said, if you cash it in good faith with reasonable belief that it was genuine, and no reasonable circumstances to suggest otherwise, then you've done nothing wrong (in this country anyway).

But the system would never work if the banks were responsible for it. As mentioned, the banks front you the money when you deposit a cheque, the 3 days clearing is simply a processing delay, not a real clearance. The money in your account is actually on loan from the bank.

So, basically, if you're not sure, take it to your bank or local LEA and ask them about it. If they tell you it seems fine then you can bank it and rely on their statement. Doesn't mean you will see the money at the end of the day, but you won't be held accountable for cheque fraud.

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Gnasher
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@Sam I Am - Does the name "Donald Anderson" mean anything to you? He's a prolific job/check (usually Amex) scammer and we are gathering as much info as we can about him.

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SlayerFaith
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Red wrote:
So, basically, if you're not sure, take it to your bank or local LEA and ask them about it. If they tell you it seems fine then you can bank it and rely on their statement.

Not necessarily. The only way that works is if you get a written statement that the cheque is good, which they will most likely not give you. They might (and its a big might) give you a written statement that you presented the cheque for their inspection and it did not appear to be fraudulent, but that will be the max. Such an action will most likely keep you from being prosecuted for cheque fraud, but will not prevent the bank from coming after you for the full amount of the cheque if it comes back fake or stolen.

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ANIMAL,MY FRIEND MY PRAYER IS THIS,LET ALL MY ENEMIES BE IN TROUBLE LIKE CHRIST INGIGE,AND LAZY PEOPLE LIKE YOU BE LIKE WABARA.THANK YOU- Kelechukwu Nduka
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Red
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Joined: 25 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry, you're 100% right, I should have clarified that.

From a purely legal standpoint, however, if you rely on information from an LEA or bank regarding a cheque to your detriment, you will not be held accountable criminally (but as slayerfaith said, your bank may come after you for the amount).

You can only commit cheque fraud if you do so knowingly (there must be intention), or do so recklessly (ie you should have known, this will hinge on the facts of the particular case).

If in doubt, ask your bank, if they tell you to deposit it make sure you get a written statement, the name of the person who said it was ok etcetera and follow these guidelines:

Qld Police wrote:
When you receive a cheque

Keep cheques you receive safe and bank them promptly. You can also make a request to the bank for special clearance.

Avoid cheque fraud by making sure:

* cheques payable to a third party are properly endorsed by the payee
* cheque endorsement is in order
* there are no alterations to the cheque
* the cheque has the correct date
* figures match the writing
* signature is okay
* the company issuing the cheque confirms it's validity


If you do all of the above, in this country, you should be right. The simple fact is that people bank cheques every single day of the week. If you take the necessary precautions you will severely limit your chances of being a victim of cheque fraud.

Thanks for clarifying that SF. Very Happy


EDIT: Also note what Gnasher says below. Although I am more referring to normal business dealings. Also, always use common sense!

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Last edited by Red on Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gnasher
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Red wrote:
If you take the necessary precautions you will severely limit your chances of being a victim of cheque fraud.


And the chances will be reduced to Zero if you ignore all these Easy Money schemes via emails from total strangers. Unfortunately these cheque scammers are very successful because (a) everything appears to go according to plan at first and victims think they really have 'earned' some quick and easy money - until the bank comes after them for a full refund, and (b) people don't understand the fine print of how the banking system actually works.

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Morgul
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 59


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

For a good explanation on how checks work, read "Catch Me If You Can" by Frank Abignale. It was the inspiration for the movie, and is really a fascinating read on the life of a check forger and con artist. It has a really good explanation of how the checking system works, and why it can take a while for a check to truly clear.

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SumYunGai
Master Baiter


Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 139


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Regarding why banks make the funds available: it's not only a convenience, it's U.S. Federal law that the bank must make the funds from a check available to the account holder within 1-5 business days, no matter how long it takes for the check to actually clear the issuing bank.

Given this requirement, if banks were also not allowed to hold account holders liable for the check amount, the entire idea of a check would cease to exist because no bank would bother with them; it would be too large of a liability. In the case of a hot check, someone has to lose, and the bank will do everything in their power to ensure it isn't them. Either the person writing the check (in cases where that person can be found and detained) or the person depositing the check are liable for its full amount.

Little secret, touched on by sellingrich but which holds in the general case: banks don't give two shits about you.

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Lester
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Joined: 20 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am amazed at the drastic quality of fakes I have seen in my baiting - some that would pass by quite a few experts to ones wouldn't fool Ray Charles.

But seems the Amex dont come froma specific place - sometimes from the US (all over) Canada, UK and direct from Africa.

_________________
Vcamera x3 - R&H Spam Skit.
pyramid x2 United Kingdom x6 Netherlands Hong Kong Nigeria
Closed lad accounts x75
$3,838,681.54 of fake checks taken off the street
Mortar x13 Tattoo x4 Sand Timer 4y 3m
_____
"Just open up and tell me the truth and stop tricking your dick." - Mr.Kofi Yousaof

"I'm a Muslim, Ok I'm a Christian, Mother F---. Get the F---- off my phone N-----, don't call me anymore." - A lad on the phone with "Homeland Security".
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GomerPyle
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Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If a fake or counterfeit cheque is charged to your account you will never have to pay it. You may be asked to show or prove it's a fake, but you will not have to pay up if you didn't issue it, and didn't cause its issuance by negligence and haven't caused the situation to be exascerbated by delaying reporting it when you could have done so earlier. They can be returned as fakes any time potentially.

That being the case, there are only two parties left to pay up (the scammer won't) - you or your bank, and who do you think is going to lose that fight ?

You accepted a cheque from a total stranger for some job involving collecting money and receiving a 10% fee - case lost.

Light a match near petrol, you'll get burned. Play recklessly with the money on your account and you'll lose it. A lot of people find this out the hard way I'm afraid.

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