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 Debate Super Safari and Ebola HERE

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FireWyrm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Mod Introduction. This is an ongoing discussion of the safari thread here:
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116760

How about a little bit of perspective here people.

You are talking about wishing that this lad will contract EBOLA. One of THE most feared viruses on the planet. There is no cure and it is horrifically contagious. To all intents and purposes, it has an almost 100% mortality rate. You liquify inside and you bleed from every orifice but you dont die immediately. For aproximately 24 - 36 hours you are contagious. This virus has been known to wipe out entire villages, every man, woman and child. Do you really want to be responsible for this lad wondering around the countryside from village to village spreading the virus whilst he looks for a doctor and the decimation of hundreds if not thousands of people?

Now, I very much doubt he would contract Ebola. As I said, there is no evidence what so ever that Kitkum cave is the vector, but the possibility exists. He is frankly more likely to get trampled by an elephant or eaten by a leopard. In any case, Ebola is not a game, it is not the sniffles, it is the most feared and hated virus on the planet.

Be careful what you wish for.

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M1d0r1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^
100% agree.

Also, the added danger for the doctors and nurses who, unbelievably, put their own lives on line treating sufferers.
Plus, any unfortunate who happens to stumble across him ...

Sorry, but if there really was a risk the answer has to be "no".


Last edited by M1d0r1 on Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gnasher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

ChocolateChip_Wookie wrote:
How about a little bit of perspective here people..........
He is frankly more likely to get trampled by an elephant or eaten by a leopard.


QED

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FireWyrm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:47 am Reply with quoteBack to top

M1d0r1 wrote:
^^^^
Also, the added danger for the doctors and nurses who, unbelievably, put their own lives on line treating sufferers.


Like Nurse Myainga(?sp) who gave her name to the strain of ebola associated with Kitkum cave.

This isnt a virus that just 'happens' to people thousands of miles away, Marburg is a town in Germany and Myainga Ebola turned up in a monkey house in Washington...yes people, Washington. Pray to whatever God you hold dear that Ebola remains forever contained in wherever it is currently hiding because if it ever got out, it would make the Black Death which wiped out 60% of Europe look like a slight outbreak of the winter sniffles.

To steal a phrase..."be afraid, be very afraid"

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PLEASE IGNORE ANY FURTHER MESSAGE FROM CHARLES OR WHATEVER FOR GOODNESS SAKE.!!! - FRANK AGAIN
so how do you want me to beat trust in you now??? (I think I've annoyed him - Frank again)


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Red
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ Now sending a lad to a cave that possibly (whilst still being very unlikely) has an infectious disease you'll be responsible for the next world pandemic?

Riiight....

If it is that dangerous I HIGHLY doubt there will be pedestrian access to it.

Sending a lad anywhere is dangerous, they're generally thieves and violent criminals, if he catches Ebola, which is so unlikely its ridiculous, I would imagine that many many tourists are in danger too.
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M1d0r1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^

Yes, I agree its incredibly unlikely to contract ebola in the area.
Personally though, I have absolutely no idea what this likelihood is. I'm simply reacting to past comments on the thread.
I'm certainly not predicting world epidemic, fall and decline of humanity or that apes will take over the world and be mystified by the Statue of Liberty.

Simply, if there is no risk then great, wonderful, have fun & I wish everyone the best of luck.

However, as I said before: if there is any risk at all, the answer has to be "no".
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Red
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I'm certainly not predicting world epidemic, fall and decline of humanity or that apes will take over the world and be mystified by the Statue of Liberty.


You know you're hooked into baiting when every scenario someone says or types is interpreted by your brain as a new modality Laughing I'm desperately wondering how I can make that into a bait... Very Happy

Meanwhile, back on the ranch, I think the website is down again?
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FireWyrm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Red wrote:
If it is that dangerous I HIGHLY doubt there will be pedestrian access to it.


And if you have a tumble in the hay with any of the working girls up and down the Kinshasa highway there's a damn good chance you'll come home with AIDS...just because it's dangerous doesnt mean that people will stop doing it!

There are people who think that Mount Elgon and particularly Kitkum Cave should be quarantened to anyone not in a level 4 Racal. But as long as the tourists keep comming, then it remains open and the world health organisation just crosses it's fingers and hopes for the best.

The truth is that we dont know where Ebola comes from. It was commonly thought to originate in green monkeys but it kills them just as quickly as it kills humans so they cant be the vector. It could be an insect native to the area, it could be the bats or the bat shit, it could be a fly, or a thousand other things. No one knows. What we do know for sure is that at least one man went to Kitkum Cave and he came back with Ebola.

So, there is a tourist bus to Kitkum cave huh? I'd rather sunbathe in the glow from Chernobyl than set food on that mountain.

As for the Lad catching Ebola, you're right. The chances are slim, but if he does, our chances are none. Ebola is no game. It has a mortality of 95%+. It is an automatic death sentance and you take everyone else in the neighbourhood with you.

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"SCHOOLS FOR THE DEAF/DUMPS" - Frank
"I will not live long since my ailment has defiled all forms of medical treatment" - Victoria
PLEASE IGNORE ANY FURTHER MESSAGE FROM CHARLES OR WHATEVER FOR GOODNESS SAKE.!!! - FRANK AGAIN
so how do you want me to beat trust in you now??? (I think I've annoyed him - Frank again)


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Peanut
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Luckily you're not doing this bait, then!

I agree that I'm iffy on death-wishes for internet fraud. As despicable as it is, I'm not sure it meets the crime. Especially since not all lads are kidnappers and murderers. Perhaps those that are are more deserving to go get Ebola - but how could you prove it? I digress.

Whilst I, personally, wouldn't send a lad to the front lines of Chad (but still read it all YW!) I think that sending a lad to a tourist attraction isn't that big a deal.

The Ebola virus was in Washington, you say? So....is it immoral to send a lad to Washington? I mean, we're saying that if there is a chance however infinitesimal...

My lad could also be hit by a flaming meteor if I instruct him to go outside during a meteor shower. And I'll have you know, being hit by a flaming ball from outer space has 100% mortality rate. I would still feel OK doing it though. Let's not forget (as has been said over and over and over and over again): these are his choices, that are clearly motivated by greed. I can't imagine this locale won't have some sort of warning signs around. If he chooses to ignore him, he has exercised his own Free Will.

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SumYunGai
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@Wookie: I find it slightly amusing that you are arguing against causing a pandemic with that avatar Twisted Evil Wink

Seriously, no, I don't think anyone on this forum would actually applaud a lad contracting ebola, or AIDS for that matter (which may be even more insidious; without the drugs to combat it, you die a very painful death from rare forms of pneumonia, while with the drugs, you're on a regimented lifestyle until the day you die, which is still going to be far sooner than otherwise). It is interesting to note that the death threats received by baiters have been peppered with references to both of these diseases, and if one of us were to contract such a disease the lad would thank God.

... Which is, of course, what separates us from them. They are amoral criminals; we are (hopefully) far better in the moral and legal departments.

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Simba
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have been to Mt Elgon NP.

Its a very beautiful region, that I would recommend to anyone wanting to see a different facet of Kenya.

Oh, and I didn't leave with Ebola.

Thats all.

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M1d0r1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Peanut wrote:
My lad could also be hit by a flaming meteor if I instruct him to go outside during a meteor shower.


Argument then flows to "could get knocked down by a bus" ... you are correct in that there are risks in everything we do.

However, for me if I asked someone to pick up a parcel and they got hit by the aforementioned flaming meteor then I'd have many guilt free, untroubled, sleep filled nights.
There is absolutely no way it could of been predicted nor was it my intent to happen.

If I send someone dressed up in a sheep costume and have him enter into "the Sheep Molesters Annual Shearing competition" I might feel responsible for the result (as was intended).

Red: I dare you to add that modality.


So from there I'll let everyone work out in their own mind their own feelings should the Lad contract ebola.

I say again -I doubt it will happen. However, phrases like "I can't imagine this locale won't have some sort of warning signs around" doesn't fill me with confidence.


Last edited by M1d0r1 on Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Please, why must every massive safari turn into an ethics debate. The Ebola thing is simply for dramatic effect. Do I care if he gets it? Not so much. Also, remember, he is going to steal money from Americans because he is a) extremely greedy and b) hates America. As an American, I hope he gets whatever he deserves. They have no problem with an elderly widow selling her home and becoming homeless to feed their greed. Punishment fits the crime.

As for the punishment fitting the crime... well, the punishment of death would fit quite well. These guys drive people to suicide. They have, in rare cases, been known to kidnap and murder their victims.

Quote:
I don't think anyone on this forum would actually applaud a lad contracting ebola, or AIDS for that matter


Oh? If they did it while trying to steal from innocent people, then I would give it a standng ovation.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:50 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

SumYunGai wrote:
@Wookie: I find it slightly amusing that you are arguing against causing a pandemic with that avatar Twisted Evil Wink


'Pestilence' is one of the 4 horsemen of the Apococlypse and if I remember my theology, it's God who releases them on the world.

Besides, I didnt say I had a problem with him dying. I said I had a problem with him killing everyone else whilst he's dying. If he got hit with a meteor, that's his hard luck. If he gets sick and coughs Ebola virus over every man, woman and child in the area just so you could have a laugh, I hope your karma payments are up to date. The chances are slim, but not non-existant.

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"SCHOOLS FOR THE DEAF/DUMPS" - Frank
"I will not live long since my ailment has defiled all forms of medical treatment" - Victoria
PLEASE IGNORE ANY FURTHER MESSAGE FROM CHARLES OR WHATEVER FOR GOODNESS SAKE.!!! - FRANK AGAIN
so how do you want me to beat trust in you now??? (I think I've annoyed him - Frank again)


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Last edited by FireWyrm on Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scam Patroller
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

ChocolateChip_Wookie wrote:
You liquify inside and you bleed from every orifice but you dont die immediately.


Well that's good to hear, do they sell Ebola in jars so he can take some souveneirs back to the cafe for the lads? Laughing

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hmmm. Well I think it was me who originally wished ebola on the lads in yet another ethics thread so I think that this is aimed partly at me.
I'm well aware of what ebola is (my wife is a scientist who specialises in viruses and blood diseases) and when I used it as an example I was fully aware of the supposed methods of transmission, it's mortality rate and the symptoms. I've also read "Hotzone" and it's sensationalist trash IMO.
I didn't believe that anyone would be stupid enough to try to use it as a defence for the lads though or take me literally.

So let me just put things straight so the OP can understand where I'm coming from.

I do not wish anyone to catch ebola from a lad. I do not wish for a lad to put anyone else's life in danger. What I wish for is a disease that destroys a lad so painfully and pitilessly that he will beg for a death by ebola. I don't care about lads. I hate lads. They disgust me. I loathe them and no death or disease is too painful or degrading for them.

Got it? Evil or Very Mad

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Pachanga
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't think it is unreasonable to occasionally discuss ethics. Newer members are finding their niche, and in that process, they are examining and comparing core beliefs.

We all filter our choices through a set of beliefs and perceptions. Several months ago we had a debate about a particular issue, and I made a change in the way I bait. In other words, my moral filter was refined.

If we did a poll right now about the Ebola/safari issue, obviously some would vote to never cause a lad to take that risk. Others would vote to do it in a heartbeat. Ultimately, it is up to the baiter.

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Simba
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

All being said and done, Mt Elgon is a National Park, one of Kenya's jewels and visited by many overseas visitors.

If it truly was a 'hot zone' for rampant Ebola, the KWS would never take risk of allowing overseas visitors access.

It would have been degazetted as an NP and the World Health Organisation would likely oversee the area.

The Ugandan approach is even more popular with visitors that the Kenyan approach.

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Peanut
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ I think that is well said.

A lot of topics will always be recycled but as the tide of new members ebbs and flows they will be seeing how they fit into this game and where their own moral compass guides them. Simply reading about OTHERS opinions and thoughts (using that wonderful "Search" key) I think only does so much. You want a direct answer to YOUR phrased concern.

I'd rather people discuss what's on their mind openly and seek outside opinions rather than go ahead and tell a lad to stab himself with a steak knife for kicks. Or torture a puppy.

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M1d0r1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry - i really intended my previous post to be my last on this subject but was over taken a little.

Got it. I understand that some believe no death is too bad for lads.
I've got it.

I'm not trying to debate this point - I'm sure peeps will have worked out my viewpoint already.

However, what happened to our ethic about not involving innocent third parties?
What would result be if Lad did catch noxious disease - yup, there are people who will step right into the firing line to help him.

Sure it maybe their choice & yes, I know its really, really unlikely to happen.
However, if it's the intent that it should then I'm completely at a loss.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think, in an ideal world, we'd see all lads put behind bars, preferably before they've successfully conned someone out of their life savings.

However, it's not an ideal world and any justice we get against them is going to be of a rather random and sporadic variety. On the one hand, wishing a lad was dead may seem a little harsh, but on the other, that's often the only way he's going to stop harming many innocent victims.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Morality is a human illusion, widely regarded as proof of our "divine" nature. We like to think it elevates us above other species while providing a "civilized" framework for our own. A crocodile doesn't give a shit whether you like it or not while it bolts you down in bite-sized chunks. It is motivated exclusively by dispassionate instincts that bubble just beneath our conceited veneer.

Whatever the cause, our extinction is imminent. It may even transpire that when the Last Perfect Day dawns upon this planet, all evidence of our passage has long-since vanished.

That is all I have to say.

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bendum_dover
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am fairly new here although I have been reading on and off for about three years now. I have just recently begun to bait and take an active role in this "hobby" . I wish death on no one friend or foe.. this is just my belief . I actually read or browse every thread in the main section and help, hints and tips every day. I have a sugestion that is slightly off-topic. I think perhaps we should set up a seperate forum or section for the ever present ethics debates . Whether it be Ebola , Tatoos , Hang Nail , Infected hair folicles or whatever for those who enjoy these debates . Normally I just browse these topics and move on because it inevitably leads to a complete circle . Just my .02 worth . Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I doubt that the lad will catch anything. Only one tourist caught the ebola from visiting the cave. If that was the case, then traces of the ebola virus would have been found in that cave conclusively. So far, there is no solid evidence of ebola in the cave. It's only based upon one claim from a victim. I'm not an expert... so let's move to the main point.

The whole point of this safari is to waste one hell of a time for the lad. Make him suffer the hike... As jojo said, the ebola thing was just was for dramatic effect. It isn't the main point of his bait... don't see why this is turning into an ethics thing when there is already an ethics of scambaiting sticky.

If that lad catches ebola... o well. Jojo gets a skull in his siggy to put in that suitcase. Smile

Nice work jojo and all involved... don't get discouraged! Think of all the innocent people that the scammers harmed with their greed.

_________________
Barr Marc Hycinth: "I HATE HOW MY NAME IS BEEN RUBISHED AT THE CASHING OFFICE TODAY."
Safari Lad: "...your mails are a healing balm to my condiction here."
Jeremiah Nnamani: "With you I wouldn't mind being a fool for the rest of my life."
James Bruce: "Thanks for your mail and also your insult to my personality and company."

Baiting Record:
Trophies - 128 | 4 AM Airport Taxi - 6
Nurse Nastys Audi TT Safari - Sierra Leone to Nigeria - "...please help me ,you brought me here to NIgeria.take me out."
Mortar x14
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fawnykate
Master Baiter


Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 143


PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I dont care if the lad where to be stricked down with ebola, what I would be concerned about is him spreading the infection, seeing as part of the bait see's him taking a plane and going to airports this really doesn't sound like too good a plan seeing as the virus would get a free trip around the world.
O'k thats all worst case scenario stuff, but still if the the risk is real, no matter how small then I think it is irresponsible. (my 2p)
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