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 The post for discussing Psychics, Ghosts & Paranormal BS

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Josh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Pretty obvious really - you haven't got back to her yet while at the time you seemed pretty keen. The only explanation is that you've discussed it with other people and they've advised you not to take things further. Wow it really seems like she's stalking you?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Reaper wrote:
. . . but what about the real Alison helping the police? Good guesswork or actual psychic abilities?


See quote from Klaas above. There has been no confirmed success for a psychic detective.

As for Allison: Allison Debunked.

--J.D.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@Eliza:

Image

Moi. . . . .Eliza

Anyways, I think you have just answered where he "extraordinary" powers come from. If you have her name, report her to vice. If you have a lawyer friend, he can write a "cease or desist" letter. It is enough to let these people know to sod-off.

Or, maybe you can get the great barrister S4ludo to file an international KGB warrant against her. . . .

--J.D.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

http://www.csicop.org/si/2005-07/i-files.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Doctor X, those articles are a good read. Not being able to prove the negative always get's you. But they have some really good evidence in the articles though, Thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree. It's very useful to have a few arguments up your sleeve when you get a psychic believer saying to you "well... how do you explain THIS then?"

EDIT: still mourning the locked PWT Reaper?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:43 am Reply with quoteBack to top

(offtopic post)

Not really, I'm doing something today with a friend, seeing "Idiocracy", my friend said it looks good. Locking the PWT has released me from it's clutches of doom, thanks Don.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Getting back on topic I used to have a girlfriend who was really into Tarot Cards, weird other superstitious stuff and all that. It was odd because she found herself split between the logical side of her mind which knew it was a load of bollocks, and the more "illogical" side of her mind which really wanted to believe these things.

I wonder if many people are like that, they believe in them because they really want to, because life is dreary and the thought of something beyond normal explanation adds a bit of colour and inspriation to their lives. Then they find themselves believing this stuff deeper and deeper, subconsciously thinking that unbelievable things are happening when in fact there's a logical explanation. Yet at the same time these people have a logical side to their mind which keeps on saying "hey... this is silly!"

Personally I've always been a cynic/atheist/realist or whatever you want to call it. If it doesn't make scientific sense and I can't see it, then you're going to need to do some pretty serious explaining to get me to believe.

The one thing that seems to semi-cross this line is hypnosis, and because of that it fascinates me.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Ref: Idiocracy. Save your money. It sux Mad

Back on topic. This 'psychic' is obviously hanging around public places looking for victims to lure into her grotto for a 'full reading'. How much is she charging BTW? All this "your are surrounded by negative energy I can help you get rid of" is utter nonsense. Totally vague and applicable to anyone. If she approaches you again threaten to call the cops. They can provide some VERY negative energy.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@Reap3r

You can prove a negative, if you do not allow the person to keep redefining something--"moving the goal posts."

For example: you CAN prove there is not an elephant in my shorts.

Quote:
R: I look at you, and I see nothing in your shorts.

Moi: It is invisible.

R: Okay, but elephants weigh . . . like . . . lots. Why is your pelvis not crushed.

Moi: This elephant is weightless.

R: Fine, but an elephant is the size of a car. Why are your shorts intact?

Moi: This elephant is only a centimeter square.

R: kicking me in the nads Fine! I just killed your elephant!

Moi: Meanie!!


So, in other words, what I am describing is no longer what I claimed--elephants are not tiny, weightless, and invisible.

Same with the paranormal. In such discussion, I will remind that ONCE someone defines something, you can examine it. Paranormalists avoid this. So an EMF meter can "detect" a ghost. Neat! What are the parameters? Why level says "ghost" and "not ghost?"

"Er . . . ah . . . um . . . it does not work that way!"

The claim keeps changing once they are examined.

@yrubraj

One problem with explaining anecdotes is you have no idea how reliable the story is. It is like describing a magic trick. Rarely, if ever, will someone report what the magician did to misdirect them.

--J.D.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

yrubraj wrote:
I wonder if many people are like that, they believe in them because they really want to, because life is dreary and the thought of something beyond normal explanation adds a bit of colour and inspriation to their lives.


More than we would like to admit. Such gives us the hope we can control what will happen. I, myself, fall victim to "sports rituals." Utter bollocks! I love the example. If I reload my browser, it allows my team to get out of a jam or get the score!! If I sat down and looked at the data, I might actually find no significant difference, or very biased data.

OF course, I do not do this! Instead, remember the "positives" and forget the "negatives"--"nothing is perfect!" I make excuses for the failures and tout the successes.

Things like "curses" give people meaning to what is basically a mundane reality: your team just did not play that well.

--J.D.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:09 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I guess curses work when the team starts believing them, like the Bambino Curse for the Boston Red Sox until a few years ago (I think that was what it was called). At a subconscious level people actually involved in the activity might wonder whether there's something else at play, and therefore by simply wondering about it their actions may be affected in a certain way.

An interesting philosophical exercise regarding sports is to think "if I had (or hadn't) watched that game I wonder if the result would have been different?" I guess if you were actually AT the game, there's potentially a tiny chance your presence may have affected the result, but in terms of watching it on TV the answer is obviously no.

But it still makes you wonder...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@KD - - perhaps I should get your IP address and go play the lottery. LOL

I could then go to the psychic and say my friends had a different vision - thanks for making me big bucks by sending me to them. LOL

Of course - I'd give you 35% of the winnings (sent via WU of course)

I am glad I haven't been out and ran into this psychic again....ack!!! I don't know what I'd say to her.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

yrubraj wrote:
I guess curses work when the team starts believing them, like the Bambino Curse for the Boston Red Sox until a few years ago (I think that was what it was called).


Indeed. But when you look at it, you see, to be honest, either the Glorious Red Sox played badly--made a mistake--or . . . OMFG!! the other team played well! That and the fact they resisted integration to almost the last. They could have had Mays and a few other prominent black player. Cannot blame a "curse" for racism and stupidity.

"We" also look for easy explanations. Poor Bill Buckner got blamed for the '86 WS loss. Well . . . he did not give up the lead. Bob Stanley is all happy to let Bill take the blame . . . ask him why he did not cover first base, because if Bill got the ball . . . Stanley should have been there to cover.

And that was the 6th game. Why did they lose the 7th?

Same with Cubs--Steve Bartman did not cause the loss--the guy was not going to get the ball, and that STILL did not cause them to play like crap and lose.

But we want control, so we make up things like rituals and curses.

Quote:
But it still makes you wonder...


Last I looked, no one has been able to show a "trend" in sport as in a "hot streak." I do not buy that, but I am allergic to math. However, if a player feels "good" then that should contribute.

--J.D.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Christ you close down one PWT and 36 appear! they're like bloody mushrooms.

speaking of which, see you all later!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

luckey wrote:
Unless someone repeals the law of conservation of mass/matter, the stuff you are made of is eternal; you have always been, you will aways be.


Mind if I zap you with a bit of anti-matter? Then again the energy release would be conserved... fine you win. Wink

@ Reaper: I totally hear you about circumstances around me causing some of my deja vu dreams in some cases. In others I can't explain how it happened as the probability of those dreams actually happening would be extremely high and in no way could have been affected by life around me. I can't explain it I just accept it. I hope to find out what caused those types of scenarios one day, but I doubt I will.

edit:

@ Doc X: Methinks you've read a bit of Descartes. Am I wrong?


Last edited by full auto on Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Reaper wrote:
I'm doing something today with a friend, seeing "Idiocracy", my friend said it looks good.


two points:

1. I saw that god awful movie on a plane and I nearly gouged my eyes out it was so bad

2. Considering the above, you need new friends Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

full auto wrote:
@ Doc X: Methinks you've read a bit of Descartes. Am I wrong?


I think not.


















Mr. Green


Regarding "deja vu all over again": it is a problem with processing perceptions. What I mean is the brain has to unite visual, auditory, et cetera information to a picture of what the event is.

Let me try that again . . . to understand what a "thing" is, you have to be able to bring together all of the elements of the "thing." This is easier to explain when describing someone who has "lost" that ability--say the ability to integrate the information of a face to recognize it as a unique person. They see and recognize things like nose, eyes, hair. They recognize voice. Whereas you and I bring that right together to recognize "my rotten neighbor! Get my gun!" someone suffering from the inability to do this cannot.

This is analogues to how one brings together memory.

People who have focal [Localized.--Ed.] seizures in a particular region of the brain will suffer from frequent strong deja vu. It is in a way an artificial activation of a region that will consider the current stimuli to be "known." Since we are not perfect, the brain is an organ, we can experience this normally. As with any hallucination, the experience seems very real.

Incidentally, there is the opposite to the phenomenon of deja vu which is known as "vuja de!" [Stop that!--Ed.]

Right, sorry, "jamais vu," which is the feeling that in familiar surroundings you are in a novel situation. Those who suffer from the seizures I described also experience this.

Why is any of this interesting?

Because we believe our brains. We believe our processing of sensory input. "Near Death Experiences" and the like are merely the result of "stressed brain."

Here is a neat example which I experience about once a year--the Night Hag!!!! [Tm.--Ed.]

Oddly enough, there is quite the common cultural story of this phenomenon. Basically you awake paralyzed feeling as if someone is sitting on your chest. You cannot breath. Many people report seeing a "hag"--an old woman or demon sitting on their chest. [He dates crack-whores.--Ed.] Shut up!!

How do you know this is a hallucination?

Invariably you fall back asleep.

Current "UFO abductions" follow the same pattern. Again, "victims" report "falling back to sleep."

I do not know about you, but if a real alien, woman was [CENSORED--Ed.] me with a probe, I would stay awake afterwards!

Neat. What is going on?

Long story short you body actually paralyzes your voluntary muscles during certain stages of sleep. This is called sleep paralysis. Makes sense in a way. IF you should wake up or at least become more conscious during this phase, then you may experience this hallucination.

You cannot move--your voluntary muscles are paralyzed.

You feel you cannot breath--this is because you cannot voluntarily take a breath, neither can you yell nor scream.

This will correct itself, obviously, but during this time--and in a state of understandable panic--your brain will try to figure this out.

Your brain's ability to represent even mistakes is culturally influenced--why people imagine themselves to be "Napolean" rather than, say, "Bob the Latrine Cleaner." With the publication of Whitey Striber's crap on alien abductions--which he always, for some reason, falls back to sleep after--reports of "alien abduction" have moved from very general and disparate to fitting what you expect from watching either The X-Files or Rosanne.

Same with the "Night Hag" variation--reports tend to recapitulate the stories people hear.

Why do people fall back asleep? Because, essentially, you are still asleep or in a break in your rhythm.

[ZZZZZzzzzZZZzzzzZZz.--Ed.]

Why is this pertinent? Because these hallucinations seem very real. We learn to trust our experience--what we see and hear.

Psychics who are nothing more than deluded or dishonest magicians play on these perceptions.

Finally, memory is shapeable--something all you Law & Order fans know. You can alter your recollection of an event based on later events and expectations. So something that seems "strange" when you experience can be "explained" later by attaching new detail. As described above, people who undergo "cold reading" often deny they gave out the details the "psychic" later fed back to them.

Here is a test of this: take your favorite film. The one you can recite--and irritate friends and relatives describing.

Think of a scene.

Right down every tiny detail, INCLUDING where people are standing in relation to one another, color and style of clothes, the like. The more the better.

Then watch the scene.

The scene you have seen many times over and over again over the years.

See how far you get.

--J.D.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:32 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Doctor X wrote:
I think not.


Well... I guess you must be a figment of my imagination. Laughing Glad I could establish one metaphysical thing out of this thread.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

To follow on from the sports and the fan discussion. In the part of the world I'm from the THE sport is rugby. It could be likened to a religion. Die hard fans of the Scarlets go to watch them as often as they can. Some will go to every home game. Yet, question one after the Scarlets have lost and they didn't see the game. They didn't go to the ground to watch it. Some will claim to have never seen the Scarlets lose a rugby game.

Things that we don't like, we push to the background and the bad news story becomes nothing more to do with us. This will be despite us being active participants in many events.

The psychic thing is probably quite easy to do when you think it through.

There will be very few people who do not have regrets and issues with which they have felt uncomfortable. So the chances are if you tell someone that they have negative energy surrounding them then you will be correct. Run through a checklist. Ask questions.

What are most people concerned about. Relationships, jobs, security, kids, health. A high population density is unnatural for people and is a relatively recent thing in evolutionary terms. That can be stressful.

You frame your questions around a generality, negative energy is always a good one. You read their reactions. A positive reaction - laughter, a smile, you can probe, maybe change the question. Defensive reaction, you are close and keep probing. No reaction I would think is similar to a defensive reaction. Why would someone react with a poker face. Poker faces hide something, it shows that you have hit a nerve if someone is defensive like this. A non reaction is as good as a reaction, in some way even better.

Psychics are always fishing for information that can be used at some point in the future. Some psychics who can identify their marks will rummage through the mark's household rubbish for information.

My favourite psychic story is from Russia. In the 90's there were a rash of ponzi and pyramid cons. Wild and intense advertising would create a demand, you know the drill. One was known as MMM, it was knicknamed 'Mani, Mani, Mani'. Mani is Russian for money. The 'investment' scheme was established. Advertising was widespread. Newspapers carried stories about how some had made millions in this scheme. There would even be soap operas on the TV about how this magical scheme had changed a family's life for the better.

Hundreds of thousands of Russians, if not millions invested. Including a woman who was an astrologer. She published an astrologer society's journal. She took her pension, the fund for the soceity and invested it into MMM. When it came to getting her money and the expected profit MMM had collapsed. After being given the run around, she decided to cast the horoscope of the managing director of MMM and decided that he was a crook.

In the interests of citing sources David Satter, Darkness At Dawn, pages blah to blah, (year of publication which I can't be bothered to look up)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Dionysius wrote:
To follow on from the sports and the fan discussion. In the part of the world I'm from the THE sport is rugby.


A place where lots of mens grab and press into one another in a thing called a "scrum," which is Anglo-Saxon for a[CENSORED--Ed.]d.

Not . . . that there is anything wrong with that. . . .

Quote:
Things that we don't like, we push to the background and the bad news story becomes nothing more to do with us. This will be despite us being active participants in many events.


Absolutely! People's recollection of statistics--how well a player is playing--can be influenced by how liked the player is, his past, et cetera. This drives "stat-heads" crazy, of course.

Quote:
So the chances are if you tell someone that they have negative energy surrounding them then you will be correct. Run through a checklist. Ask questions.


You are t3h correct! Who does NOT think someone is thinking negative about them?

Quote:
You frame your questions around a generality, negative energy is always a good one. ["Snip!"--Ed.]

Psychics are always fishing for information that can be used at some point in the future. Some psychics who can identify their marks will rummage through the mark's household rubbish for information.


If you get a chance to see James "The Amazing" Randi's NOVA show--a few years back--investigating the Russian "psychics." There were women who claimed they could tell you everything about a person just by looking at a picture. You can see them trying to fish information from them. They get . . . "he likes sports. He is independent. If you could tell us something about him. . . ."

He tells them nothing. "Something happened to him in 19--"

He showed them a picture of Ted Bundy--Kids! Google Ted Bundy!! Get your parent's permission!!--they claimed "something happened" a few years after he was executed.

Once he described who Ted Bundy was, oh did the ladies try to rationalize! "We said he was 'independent' and 'smart!'"

Uh . . . yeah.

Quote:
My favourite psychic story is from Russia.


Cool! They have "astrologers" forecast on television there. I think Pravda has become "The Weekly World News" of Russia. Lenin is rotating in his . . . er . . . glass case.

--J.D.

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harrya
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just dropped by to see how the skeptic forum was going.

Quote:
Show me an effect and I will be interested in exploring its cause


Is that an admission of very close knowledge of LSD and Datura ?

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Mortar
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Doctor X
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 766


PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Non sequitur et cadit quaestio.

In the rain.

--J.D.

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ואטמא אותם במתנותם בהעביר כל־פטר רחם למען אשםם למען אשר ידעו אשר אני יהוה
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harrya
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^
Of course it does,

You just don't realise it yet.

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M1d0r1
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Of course some of us have great psychic powers which you disbelievers should be ashamed of yourselves for doubting.

For instance - a lad sent the following to me only a few days ago after I did a psychic reading on his email (hopefully to be posted later) :

Quote:
Dear B0tty ,
I have informed my wife to ensure that we eat garlic at least once a day from now on . I plan to eat garlic at least once a day for at least ten days by which time our money would have left your online account to your personal account at home.
I am not taking your advices lightly as i believe you a 100 percent.


I am sure peeps like Dr X will agree this as proof - and I have the sound effects to back it up - "mwaaaaunnnannnannn"

Yours,

B0tty [email protected]@
Psychic Extra0rdinaire
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