Perpetual motion scam

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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:53 pm

If you're traveling at the speed of light in a car, near the center of a galaxy, and turn on the headlights, can you see the event horizon?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:06 am

^^^ 42. Nice avatar, btw.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

There is a wonderful book Voodoo Science: The Road from Foolishness to Fraud that examines this nonsense.

Not surprisingly . . . everyone sit down, because this will come as a shock . . . it is all a scam.

You get people to invest in the "thing" to get "rights" or whathaveyou to the energy when the thing gets built.

But what do you know? Nasty ol' guv'ment with Big Oil [Tm.--Ed.] are out to stop them! There are delays . . . more money is needed . . . to protect your investment. Once you start buying into a dream, it is always easier to put in a bit more than admit you have scammed.

Prof. Park describes one of the seminars from an "inventor"--it reads like any MLM seminar or a revival.

--J.D.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:38 am

The PWT is living proof of Perpetual motion Smile

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:43 am

Currently me at the head Razz

,

Heard about this crap a few months ago, some idiot handing out flyers at a train station Confused

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:49 am

Who knows perhaps one day it might be possible? Einstein's theory of relativity went against just about all known science when he came up with it, yet nearly 100 years later we've finally caught up with him.

You never know....

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:56 am

Well, I would have to say that there is something quite close to perpetual motion... some consider it a form, others don't. But superconductors are the closest thing we know of to date. It is really an amazing phenomenon. I used to have a piece of superconductor that I took from FSU's magnet lab where they used that for their crazy magnets they have there.

Basically, if you apply current to a closed system of superconducting material, there is zero resistivity and the current will flow forever. So, if we could ever harness this type of power into something that is financially feasible, power transmission and distribution would be a negligible cost. But the cost of liquid helium and other coolants are not exactly cheap. So that would just be mere foolishness at this point to hope for such.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:16 pm

won't work jojo, as long as you let the current flow it will flow, and even create a static magnetical field, but as soon as you try to generate energy with that current it will no longer going through only superconducting material so the current will stop. Like, imagine a wheel running in a vacuum around a frictionless axis (you might want to use your superconducting magnets for that), it will keep on running for ever (friction = zero), but as soon as you use the wheel motion to drive something else, the wheel will slow down and stop.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:32 pm

As I said, this type of thing would have to be harnessed into something usable. It is used now, I have seen it done used in creating a magnetic field of over 40 Tesla. I have seen a frog floating in the air because of the iron in its blood. An impressive site to see, trust me.

I forsee this as something of great significance in the future, but not just yet. The best bet would be to use it in long lines of transmission. For example, if it could ever be used to transmit power over miles and miles, your "copper losses" would be zero. This would be extremely beneficial for cost. Again, this is still in very early stages of research and its implementation is far from soon.

There was a quote in one of my communications books from a while back... someone made the statement in a newspaper article (and this is a paraphrase): "No one could ever use a wire to transmit sound. If they could, it would be of no use." Just an interesting comment knowing what we know now.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:33 pm

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My AV is in perpetual motion..........

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:34 pm

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed only transformed. Any attempt to leach energy from an existing supply will result in a loss or transfer from the supply reducing the source resulting in the eventual diminishing of the initial supply.
Many attempts at perpetual motion demonstrations will be kick started by a
manual push or some other energy source. Eventually stopping and really only demonstrating the wonderful world of lubricants, bearings and magnetics that we do have an understanding of.

To be honest Harry Potter would have more luck.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

yrubraj wrote:

Who knows perhaps one day it might be possible? Einstein's theory of relativity went against just about all known science when he came up with it, . . .

Eh . . . checks section he is in . . . not really true. By the time of Einstein, there were significant problems with classical physics trying to explain the large and small. I will not bore you with the attempts to measure the effects of "aether" on light, but there "had" to be an aether--a medium for light to propagate in. Einstein actually provided a great solution.

It also took a while for him to do it.

Anyways, the point of that is while revolutionary, Einstein's theories did not "Break the Laws of Physics twice in one episode, Captain!!"

Perpetual motion would.

--J.D.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:37 pm

Reading this lot gave me a headache. @ Harrya - you joined the 419Eater forum on my birthday. Which is nice.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:39 pm

@My toe hurts, I'm a day earlier Very Happy

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:39 pm

^^^ Doing anything nice?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:42 pm

harrya wrote:

Many attempts at perpetual motion demonstrations will be kick started by a
manual push or some other energy source.

The problem is not that the mechanism is given a kick start. That would not have any bearing on whether or not the system was perpetual. But there is theoretically (and physically) no way to create a frictionless system. Except in the case of superconductors.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:44 pm

Don't know yet, its on a Sunday so I'm lucky probably 5-6 (Who knows with leap years) more years till I get it on the weekend again Sad

Sorry for the offtopicness

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:11 pm

jojobean wrote:

I would say that simple friction and water resistance would be enough to put a hole in that theory, but I am no thermo expert.

Could you label the views of the drawing (ie top view, side view)? That might help me understand.

Found some pics that make things clearer:

Box with flexible pipe:

put a heavy iron bar in the pipe:

Now filled with water:

remove the iron bar:

This at least proves the volume increases, because water floods over edge.