I may have sat by a 419er on the plane yesterday

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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:15 pm

This woman was trying to tell me about her company and how I should go to work for her. I pretended to be interested - took her business card...etc....and I will check it out. The thing is - she was telling me it's 100% risk free. It was so hard to sit by her and not smirk. I just pretended to be really interested. Now when I get a chance later, I'll check out her website. If it IS a scam, I'll be sure to share it with all of you who may also want to go to work for her. If it's not a scam - then she needs to change her sales pitch because it sounded like a memorized lad email.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

Does she go by the name "?"

Maybe she is recruiting you for a Multi-Level Marketing scheme--aka "Semi-Pyramid" scheme seen in HerbaLife, Amway, and others?

[Pontificate Mode]These are schemes where you sell products you buy from someone higher up the chain. The goal is to recruit people under you to buy the products from you to sell to the public.[/Pontificate Mode]

Please post if so, I know someone who researches/investigates these things, particularly if they involve "health supplements."

--J.D.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:05 am

Ah the good old pyramind schemes. I listened to some guy talk about a scheme like that a year or so ago - along the lines of "you do a little bit of work, but then you get most of your money by getting other people to join.... and look how much you can earn if you get 500 people to join. OMG!"

It's quite hilarious the response you get when you say "hmm... that sounds a bit like a pyramid scheme.."

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

^^^^The hilarious film Go has a wonderful take on it. The actor's reaction to, "is this Amway?" and "isn't that a pyramid scheme?" are exactly that!

These people basically join a cult--and anyone interested in that sort of stuff I can send them to some discussions on that subject. In a way, there is an analogy to a scam and a bait. Everyone invests emotional currency in "a dream"--getting money. Every obstacle is seen as a test, and the more obstacles you surmount, the more you have invested emotionally into the "dream." If you invest time and $$$--which you do!--it becomes even harder to admit you have been had.

For MLM'ers, you have to recruit to make money on the deal. In the US, late-night "Paid Programing" is filled with these scams. Always there is some clown claiming he just walks to the mailbox and picks up his check for $$$$$. Sure, if he is on the top of the pyramid.

"How to lose friends and alienate people," because, like any cult, you need the validation of your social circle. Most people you know are not interested--and this includes family and friends. So you surround yourself with like-minded people. They tell you that your former friends and family are not "with it," are not interested in you, are "dream killers," or whatever the buzz-word is.

The more you sink in, the harder it is to emotionally climb out--you are sooooo close to "getting it."

Thus some of the scammers who fall for what seems like--in retrospect--utterly ridiculous baits The baiters have sold them the same paradigm . . . just a bit more and you will scam your victim; you will get your pay-day.

Obviously, if anyone has had to borrow to pay for expenses, it is even harder to get out.

Incidentally, those on the top of the MLM pyramid make their $$$ by selling the dream to you--like any cult leader. There are tapes/DVDs, books, and the all important seminars that tell you that you are special and everyone else is an idiot for not having your "vision," or whatever the buzz-word is.

--J.D.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:08 am

There are a great many scams out there, and the 419 is only one of them. Scamming was invented shortly after money was invented in ancient... wherever money was invented. Just like 419's, all scams start out with the "you can't lose" pitch and go from there.

In every legitimate business, from tradesmen fixing things to high-profile investors, there is always someone looking to "chop you dolla" if they can just convince you to pay that one little fee.

Master Baiter Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 109

For people not in the UK, or those who are but without digital tv, the BBC ran a series called The Real Hustle, which showcases all kinds of scams. Only "small" stuff compared to 419, but quick n easy scams.

You can watch some of then here
It is incredibly how insanely simple some of them are, and thus how easy it is to get a victim.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:15 pm

Eliza_Doolittle wrote:

I may have sat by a 419er on the plane yesterday

Was she on a safari? Laughing

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:44 pm

Eliza you have some interesting luck. First you spot Nigerians scamming in an alleyway now you have a pyramid scheme person sitting next to you on a plane. Well, I guess it is your destiny to fight these a-holes. Very Happy

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:45 pm

Ok what do you guys think:

http://owilliams.qhealthbeauty.com/Default.aspx

and http://www.wowisonline.com (it says password = wowis on the business card)

So you guys with more experience - is this a pyramid scheme? I am Not at all familiar with these things.

I just know if it sounds too good to be true - - it is. And her telling me over and over it was 100% risk free just about killed me. LOL Laughing

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

Oh, it's the old vitamin sales pitch. It's not a fraud, but it is essentially the Amway mode of selling.

419Eater is my life Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 344

every time I hear a salesperson or person on commercial on tv say "100% risk free" I cant help but chuckle.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:02 pm

It's all the same as Advacare, Herbalife, Amway and everything else, as others said. Not a scam in the sense you are paying for an actual product, but a scam in the prices you pay. It is all based on the pyramid scheme theories. This just isn't illegal because they do push product.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:53 pm

Everyone should steer completely clear of MLMs. They are very nasty. Evil or Very Mad

An excellent account of being 'had' by Amway is here: http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/DOWNLOADBOOK.html

(You do have to fill in the form, but I did and have never had any spam problems with the email addy I used.)

Although the page looks a bit hyperbolic and ranty, the actual pdf is quite balanced, readable, and fascinating.

As I said - steer WELL clear of MLMs.

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:09 pm

I have read the majority of people who make money with mlm's, make most of their money on the sale of books, tapes, seminars etc. and not the sale of the actual products. There is nothing worse than being trapped in a situation like Eliza was in.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

Is is a useful linkypoo to anyone interested in information on MLM

MLM Watch

Both Quixtar and Amway offer these products. From the above site, HERE is an article on the origins of Amway, Nutrilite--which the person sells--and MLM in general.

--J.D.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:48 am

I used to work with an Amway disciple. He and his pals were like Pat Boone clones, all clad in polyester leisure suits and white patent leather shoes. And their eyes! Shocked

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:59 am

Pretty scary thing to get involved with. I've heard of people who sell that and lose heaps of money each month because they don't sell enough stuff - you're forced to buy samples and other stuff like that..... No wonder they end up pissing off all their friends and family.

Wannabe Baiter Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 86

It seems like she's a minion (or a pawn, whatever floats your boat) of the Qiuxtar system. In other words, yup, definitely a pyramid scheme. This is the offspring of Amway.(read the wiki) Apparently they are going to re-name Qiuxtar Amway again later.
http://owilliams.qhealthbeauty.com/Help/About.aspx
http://www.quixtar.com/products/content.aspx?pid=1956
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quixtar

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

yrubraj wrote:

Pretty scary thing to get involved with. I've heard of people who sell that and lose heaps of money each month because they don't sell enough stuff. . . .

Yup! You basically have to find a ready customer to buy the stuff off of you. That is some poor slob who becomes your seller. EVERYONE becomes a potential customer or, better, a potential seller for you! This is how you lose friends and family--trying to bring them in and then seeing them as "dream killers" or "negativists" or something.

Well, if this crap was so fantastic, so "it sells itself!" why do we not see "Amway Stores" everywhere?

Again, the film Go! is worth it just for the scenes with the MTM people.

--J.D.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:14 am

(Sorry bit offtopic)

http://www.internetcashcourse.com/

Got sent this link by a friend is it MLM? obviously not going to join, but is it a scam?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:23 am

^^^

Internetcashcourse website wrote:

You will receive an automated turn-key money making system

Seeing that was enough for me to say, yes, it's a form of MLM. You pay your money to join, they give you a clone of their website and ask you to recruit other people to join, etc. pp.

No real product, no real service, just empty hype and a big pyramid...

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:47 am

^^ Dr X

I just about lost a good friend through Amway, or something similar. A few years back his girlfriend got him into it, selling energy drinks I think, and he spent hours trying to convince me that I'd make thousands through it, and using every form of guilt trip available to try and make me join.

It was a very uncomfortable evening.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

^^^^yrubraj:

I just read a section of a forum which dealt with some of the practices of MLM. I first encountered them after having studied cults and the like, so once I read up on them it was like reading about another cult. The same tactics.

It is tragic. These things play on the hopes of victims. Sure, people should be responsible for their actions--just like I suppose 419 victims should search a bit to find out that it is too good to be true. However, scammers play on the belief that most people thing others are honest and not trying to screw them.

So MLM people come as your friend to tell you that you are special.

One of the elements of true "brain washing" is to control the environment of the victim--prevent them from seeing contrary viewpoints. This is why cults isolate people or denigrate contrary views. The seminars of MLM serve to do just that--bring the sheep together to tell one another that the reality they see is "real." They all talk about how friends and families "opposed them, but LOOK!! THEY are working 9-5 for nothing!"

Sorry, I see I am ranting.

--J.D.

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:17 am

^^ The most annoying thing was that this guy had been a friend of mine for about 10 years beforehand. That's what made it so uncomfortable.

Master Baiter Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 158

yrubraj:
I can empathise. A relative of my husbands got into some Goji selling MLM thingymabob. Every time you saw her it was all about that, and how we could make oh so much money, blah blah blah.

It became so uncomfortable, we accidentally forgot to tell her our new address when we moved.

I know it sounds nasty of us, but honestly, there is only so much hard-sell you can cope with in a limited period of time.

I really dislike the real drones tho. They are so suave, and make it all sound so amazing. IMO, they are more convincing than Lads.

Its like dealing with a legitimate lad.

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