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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:39 pm

Now bear in mind this is all 'theoretical':

-Correspondence with a particular scammer has been going on for a week or so. He trusts me as much as I "trust" him.

-Scammer believes he is on the verge of conning me and my business out of a large sum of money.

-My brother and I head a firm and do pretty well for ourselves. A moderate expense is justifiable in executing what we consider to be the ultimate scammer-trap.

-Scammer has US Passport, and is preparing to fly TO THE UNITED STATES to meet with his "client" to further build trust. Expenses have been paid by the scam baiters. He doesnt pay a dime, comes to the US, then believes that shortly afterwards he will be milking us for far more.

SO, with that said (again, this is all "theoretical") am I correct in saying that the possibilities are endless? Now obviously this breaches any standard of 'safe baiting' that you have proposed here, which is why it has not been posted until now, but how do you guys feel about the described situation?

Heres what I'm thinking....theoretically, one could meet this man at the airport (accompanied, of course) and take him most anywhere on the pretense of a 'discussion'. Then, once said party is sufficiently far from where the journey began, he could be "released". And by released I mean dropped off almost anywhere, without any means to get back to the airport, without communications skills adequate enough to get anywhere fast, and most likely without any sort of money. Is there anything criminal about this? Or is it just a vile (read awesome) plan of action? Do share your opinions please.

And by the way, I've been lurking for a while, but enjoying the "work" you guys do here. I've been pursuing the hobby for a bit now, but this is my first post.

Mod edit: I changed the title. Just because. TS

Baiting Guru Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: UK

Hi and welcome to the eater, I note you have Dallas as your location, are you aware that in the Dallas and Houston areas of Texas, there is a large community or west African scammers based there, right on your doorstep?

He may well have a contact there, or will almost certainly know someone with a contact there, so dropping him off in the middle of nowhere wont bother him, he will soon be picked up by another lad and taken to a safe place, you have now let a lad enter the US, from where he will be able to live the good life whilst continuing to scam people over the internet, and of course, the lad is going to be really pissed at you, and as he knows all your company details, it would not be hard for him to get back at you blah blah blah.

The lad could also easily pass the job to a US based lad so that he doesn't need to leave Africa, he might not even own a passport.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:01 pm

My gut instict says this is wrong. Why help a scammer get anywhere except the local jail cells, especially spending your own money. Also sounds somewhat illegal to me. If they know any real details then the cops wouldn't be terribly impressed I imagine (particularly if he does have a US passport)

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:11 pm

A "Moderate expense" is no expense at all. You shouldn't pay a single penny to a lad in any way whatsoever.
And as SP stated, your lad could have contacts in the US. You pay the plane fare, the lad refunds it and he's made a nice little earner. Or who knows? If he does turn up and even if you are "accompanied", the lad may still be very dangerous. Then there's the legality issue. If the lad smells that something is up and you're driving him around, you could end up on a kidnap charge or maybe even something worse.

I can understand why at first it seems to be an appealing idea at first glance, but there really are too many pitfalls once you go deeper. Far too many things that could go wrong. Personally, I would drop this idea like a hot potato.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:29 pm

Not to mention before a lad just ups and jumps on a plane to meet you (even if you are paying for it) he will require you to send him money via WU for whatever reasons he can think of.

Also, why do you think he has a US passport? Is it because he says so? Lads lie you know. It sounds like he is just telling you what you want to hear so you will send him money.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:32 pm

I see where you guys are coming from. Didnt know about the Dallas/Houston scammer-haven thing, but we were planning on taking him to Oklahoma anyway (on the pretense of enjoying some drinks at my lake house) and leaving him in the middle of nowhere. He doesnt know any real information about my business. I followed the rules, this guy doesnt know my name, my address, my phone number, or anything. All he has is a bogus GMail account name.

The guy says he has a passport and I told him I would book the flight and pay for it. He is going to meet me at the gate, so it will definately be him, not one of his stateside cohorts. Either way, I guess the "danger" is part of the thrill. Not that this is a hobby done for thrills, but with money to burn and retribution to deliver, were looking for something a little more exciting.

From what I can gather, there is nothing illegal about this. He is willingly accompanying us on the trip, and there isnt anything in the books about leaving someone stranded.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:32 pm

Talk about getting scamed! He will require that you send him the money and he will buy the ticket himself. You can trust him though it is 100% risky free! Rolling Eyes

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:35 pm

He may "willingly" accompany you to start with, but what if that changes once he's in the car?
And as for details? Cars have number plates don't they?

If danger is part of the thrill, my honest advice to you is to take up hang-gliding or scuba-diving - not baiting.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:37 pm

Ghost wrote:

It sounds like he is just telling you what you want to hear so you will send him money.

Well, he could be, but as of right now he is going to the airport tomorrow morning. He hasnt asked for any kind of money yet.

Either he is baiting me, and wont get on the plane and wont meet us at the terminal. (There would be no point to this) or we will see him there.

The only thing that I can think of is that he would not get on the flight, make up an excuse as to why he couldnt make it, and ask me for more money to get him here. But, we already considered this, and told him that if he didnt make this flight, there would be no more discussion, and the deal was off.

We'll just have to see at this point. If all goes as planned, this should be a good one. I should have some video and audio as well Smile

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:39 pm

Slightlyoutofit wrote:

If danger is part of the thrill, my honest advice to you is to take up hang-gliding or scuba-diving - not baiting.

We've thought of that too. We have more than enough measures to ensure protection if need be. Wink

I'll keep you posted.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:43 pm

*sigh* Well as you've shared the rest of your plans, I'm sure that you can tell us how you intend to skirt around the number plate issue.
Nothing illegal I hope?

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:47 pm

Haha I should have mentioned this, since now you've asked, but a friend of mine who is accompanying us owns a Lexus dealership. We're taking a loaner car from the lot. It just has dealer tags. In all, it will be me and 2 other buddies, and the 'suspect'.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:52 pm

Quote:

there isnt anything in the books about leaving someone stranded

Have you actually checked?

Master Baiter Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 142

Well you seem comitted to it , so go for it , although I wouldn't spend one penny on those people.
1. Hire car
2. drive a night so you dont light the plates up before he is in the car
3. ...................mmmmmmmmm nah i wouldnt bother sounds a bit like kidknapping.

You'll be walking a legal tight rope with this one, and knowing these lads , once inside the US he will try and sue you for every dollar your worth. ( OWN GOAL).

IMO STEER CLEAR OF THIS

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:57 pm

Ghost wrote:

Have you actually checked?

Yes. If it is a child, its reckless endangerment. Otherwise there is no crime against being an asshole and leaving someone.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:57 pm

Slightlyoutofit wrote:

...*sigh*...

I second that matey.

I've just found some navel fluff! Shocked

Don't panic, I just shot it. I'm off to bed now.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:59 pm

I think I'm going to avoid recording or videotaping any part of our journey, for obvious reasons. I'll keep you guys posted. I know this is not a normal procedure for you guys, but as long as I'm not breaking any forum rules or whatnot, stay tuned for the story.

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:03 am

I cannot speak for Texas but in California what you are doing can be considered kidnapping or at the very least false imprisonment.

See Texas penal code section 20.01

You are walking a fine line.

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:13 am

@ThePunisher

The scammers are criminals and they know *exactly* what they're doing. He wants money, the easiest way possible. There is *no* way "he" is going to fly to the US to meet you. If "he" is already in the US, there is *no* way he will meet you and get in your car.

These people work in groups. *They* control the situation at all times. They know they are criminals and know they can get caught any time. Contrary to popular belief, they are far from stupid.

Sure, he'll say "I'll be there at xxx o'clock," but 15 minutes before the meeting time, he'll call and direct you to another place. You'll end up getting in *his* car.

Baiting is a fun game. Meeting a criminal is dangerous.

Western Union · Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:14 am

This is the most ridiculous thread I�ve ever read.

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:23 am

Some interesting statutes from Oklahoma:

Quote:

�21-151. Persons liable to punishment in state.
The following persons are liable to punishment under the laws of this State:
1. All persons who commit, in whole or in part, any crime within the State.
2. All who commit theft out of this state, and bring, or are found with the property stolen, in this state.
3. All who, being out of this state, abduct or kidnap, by force or fraud, any person contrary to the laws of the place where such act is committed, and bring, send, or convey such person within the limits of this state, and are afterward found therein.
4. And all who, being out of this state, cause or aid, advise or encourage, another person, causing an injury to any person or property within this state by means of any act or neglect which is declared criminal by this code, and who are afterward found within this state.

�21-741. Kidnapping defined.
Any person who, without lawful authority, forcibly seizes and confines another, or inveigles or kidnaps another, with intent, either:
First. To cause such other person to be confined or imprisoned in this state against the will of the other person; or
Second. To cause such other person to be sent out of this state against the will of the other person; or
Third. To cause such person to be sold as a slave, or in any way held to service against the will of such person, shall be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not exceeding ten (10) years. Upon any trial for a violation of this section, the consent thereto of the person kidnapped or confined, shall not be a defense, unless it appears satisfactorily to the jury, that such person was above the age of twelve (12) years, and that such consent was not extorted by threat, or by duress.

Now I am not familiar with the statutes of Oklahoma, but I would think that taking someone somewhere by outright fraud with the intent to drop them in the middle of nowhere is kidnapping or some related crime.

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:24 am

I concur, and may I just add the words "blartlesnart " and "beafimicious" to maintain an appropriate tone.

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:27 am

Just chalk up the lost money for airfare as a lesson learned and walk away from this one. If you can get him to take a taxi to a webcam location, that's as far as you should go IMO. Do not meet him in person!!! Can't the airlines trace the purchase information for the ticket back to you or your business credit card???

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:29 am

First of all, he won't be tricked that easy. Second, it sucks that all this money will be used to strand a mugu. Think how many charities could benefit from the money. Mugus can be stranded in places much more hostile than Oklahoma for no cost - there have been many safaris launched by eater members.

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:34 am

Frog:

Yeah, I am sure that other than a couple of bucks for phone calls Jojo never bought one of his lads a plane ticket anywhere.

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