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 Not dumping on Alan..

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GordonBennett
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

..but I sent some info about 4 weeks ago and checked with my lad again yesterday as to what his account was - same details!

So, how effective is Alan in general and how effective is he in West Africa?(I presume some banks/countries are more cooperative than others)

Does he always ask if he needs more info?

How long does it take to shut an account?

And who is this elusive pimpernel, anyway?

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Last edited by GordonBennett on Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tsnerd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Moved here from FB.

Information given to Alan is turned over to LEO and financial institution authorities. From there, accounts are monitored, information is gathered, and then someone in officialdom decides what course of action, if any, to take.

Quote:
So, how effective is Alan in general and how effective is he in West Africa?


Very. Somewhere in the forums is an exact number, but it's running in the low 90's for percentage.

Quote:
Does he always ask if he needs more info?


Yes.

Quote:
How long does it take to shut an account?


See my first paragraph.

Quote:
And who is this elusive pimpernel, anyway?


A great resource for hurting the lads.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

TSnerd wrote:
A great resource for hurting the lads.


Considering that, you could say that any more information must not get out beyond those who urgently need to know. They would be the people that he sends the info to.

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GordonBennett
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Action time is obviously dictated by various things, but what is a common range of times? 1-2 days? (unlikely!) 2-4 weeks? 6-8 weeks? Is it quicker in Europe than West Africa?
Just curious Smile

Actually, I put it in the FB because others might have been curious too - when I sent the details I had no idea what to expect (well, I did really) or how long it would take (still in the dark).

I may have missed it in all the stickies but that info would be good to put there.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

<br>I had an e-mail from the man himself only last week! Shocked He normally only e-mails back if he needs further info.

I had a lad's bank account in Taiwan that needed shutting. I had previously reported it to him in mid May. He tells me that the Taiwanese authorities are not as obliging as their Chinese mainland counterparts in dealing with such matters. I shudder to think what the Chinese do when they catch the culprits. Twisted Evil

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:27 am Reply with quoteBack to top

GordonBennett,

A bank account will NOT be closed just because you, or anybody else, states that it is being used by a scammer.
It should be obvious that any accusation of wrongdoing involving the reported account needs to be investigated and proof of fraud established before any action can be taken.
It follows therefore that if you have reported an account belonging to a particularly unsuccessful lad, who has had no transactions for months, then NOTHING can happen in respect of that account.

You ask
Quote:
Action time is obviously dictated by various things, but what is a common range of times? 1-2 days? (unlikely!) 2-4 weeks? 6-8 weeks?

Is that a joke Question
Your posts suggest that, firstly, you are expecting an account to be closed just because you have reported it as belonging to a scammer. What concrete evidence do you have for that claim? And did you provide cast iron proof to Alan?
My guess is a negative to both of the above.

Secondly you appear to be implying that Alan is ineffective.
In my opinion, and that of many of my learned colleagues, Alan is the most effective means to get information in front of the more relevant financial and fraud officials worldwide.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I've had three replies, last one was when an obliging lad gave two sets of details laid in in perfect format with line spacing, very neat.
Alan said 'Thanks'

I have also had a request for more info.

So yes it does work.

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Always remember that evidence must be built up, it might be that nothing is going into or out of the account, so the Authorities have to wait for something to happen to build up a case.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I've got a question on this topic.

I've handed off several accounts to Alan for closure. What is the best procedure for continuing? I've used the "bank is rejecting it... blah blah" line. But I've read where others say you should tell them "the bank notified me that the wire bounced because the acct is under fraud watch...". Wouldn't doing something like that make them jump to another account when you may want them to continue using it in the same manner which would hopefully result in closure.

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GordonBennett
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
A bank account will NOT be closed just because you, or anybody else, states that it is being used by a scammer
Sorry, I missed the bit where I said it should be Question Exclamation Of course it's obvious that investigations should be carried out. All I asked is how long this normally takes. No need to get your Levis in an uproar.


Quote:
It follows therefore that if you have reported an account belonging to a particularly unsuccessful lad, who has had no transactions for months, then NOTHING can happen in respect of that account.
I don't see why - surely the idea is that it's the account of someone trying to scam. Past behaviour may just bolster the case. I don't know because I don't close accounts for a living/pastime. Hence asking questions.

Quote:
Is that a joke? .. you are expecting an account to be closed just because you have reported it as belonging to a scammer
No, it's a valid question. I have no idea, that's why I asked. And as for concrete evidence and cast iron proof goes - I did what was asked of me in the stickies. Lighten up. I know more is required. In fact I was dubious about sending what I had in the form I did, so I wondered whether I had messed up and needed to resubmit what I had sent in another form. (Because I was using Google I extracted the headers and text and put it all as a Word document). Thus if someone had said that he was 99% effective and it should take a week or two, I'd know I would have to send it again (maybe the Word doc got stripped by his antivirus app). If someone said it took months, then I wouldn't worry. Smile And if you think about it, Alan's success rate probably means that anyone sending him info has a 90%+ expectation that the account would be closed. Logic, not arrogance.

Quote:
Secondly you appear to be implying that Alan is ineffective
Boy we really are having a bad hair day, aren't we? Rolling Eyes I asked how effective he was; that is a far cry from calling him ineffective. I'm quite prepared to take the assurances implied in the stickies and elsewhere that he is effective. If I didn't, I wouldn't have bothered sending anything to him. I was just mildly curious as to how long things took and, as an after thought, how effective he was - which would also depend on the co-operation of the banks, hence he may have less joy in WAf. Calme toi. The title may have got your back up (something sure has) but it was meant to reflect that I knew he was held in high regard.

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Last edited by GordonBennett on Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:45 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You also have to take into account the fact that just because the scammer sends you the same account details, doesn't mean nothing has been done. It is possible that the scammer has no idea that his account has been closed. So he could be sending out these account numbers that have already been closed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Jojo's point is very valid. Lads will also do the same thing with fake sites, not realizing that the URL they are giving has been suspended.

As for your reply to Breddan and your comment, "Sorry, I missed the bit where I said it should be", I'd suggest that you go back and re-read your first post, since that is certainly the implication that you conveyed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I've had several communications with Alan - and he's followed through with all that I've handed in so far.

I had one lad that ended up giving me about 10 or so accounts due to excuses I was giving (the hit man).

So - to answer your question - I think that it really depends on where the scammer is - how many complaints they can get - and just how long it takes to gather enough proof - so it could be quickly - or it could take a while - it's a toss up.

As another member here would probably say:
"Getting an account closed is like making love to a beautiful woman. Once you meet her, you may get it done that night, or it may take you a while to convince her that you are worth it."

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GordonBennett
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I'd suggest that you go back and re-read your first post
Well, yes and no. I didn't just state that it should be closed, I followed what was asked of me in the stickies and included as much as I could without being off-track with as much technical detail as possible. And when you keep hearing he is effective then I guess you could be forgiven for thinking that he will be equally effective in your case. (Actually I didn't even mention he should shut it down, I merely offered him the evidence. I figured he would make his own decision based on it)

As I said, it's not arrogance so I'm sorry if it came across that way, but when people say "send this off to Alan, he'll get it shut down" then that's pretty much what I believe. I'm also not completely daft, I know it takes corroborating evidence and investigation.

Quote:
Jojo's point is very valid
True - I never thought of that - I figured they would at least know if their own accounts had been closed!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My $0.02
I'm sure Alan does what he can with the info he gets, but he has to play by the rules and those are many. I'm glad he is willing to dive in there for me because I couldn't do it.
I picture a guy behind a desk, a phone, a computer and a HUGE inbox that keeps filling up faster than he can empty it.
Every country its own set of rules, every bank its own set of rules and one email to work with.
It will take research, filing and a lot of paperwork to get the wheels going. I dont expect that he shuts down my bank right away, but he collects evidence to, one day, have it investigated, checked and maybe shut down or flagged, so that it can be used later.
Its like an anonymous phone call to the police, John Johnson is a killer I dont think John is arrested the same day for murder, but given time they will check to see whats true about it.
Were playing cloak and dagger, that part is easy, they are responsible for the investigation for the law and that takes a bit more.
I really appreciate what Alan is doing, even if he calls it a job, in the end he takes out the finances of a whole scammers net work for me/us. All I can do is bug my lad a bit.

Alan Thumbs up and thanks for all the work.

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Last edited by bill2 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^^

Yup.

It's like those "my lad's brother is flying to England next week, can we get him arrested at the airport?" posts.

The answer is no.

I'm often surprised at what people who live in democratic societies expect from the police or other authorities and institutions. Some of those things wouldn't even happen in the worst of dictatorships.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Alan Thumbs up and thanks for all the work
I agree. I just wanted to know how long it took ...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Wink For ever, it's not the time thing here, it's priorities and evidence falling in place. No one can say how long that takes. Rolling Eyes Testing these old eyes hey, but I read it Laughing

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Another point to remember is that the account does not always belong to a scammer.

I had a mugu who gave me 3 accounts before giving me a family member's bank account which he assured me was 100% ok.

I still passed this to Alan but I don't expect that account to be closed as it is not being used for scamming. Only appeared once in an email he sent me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It looks like they(lad) borrow or rent the account for a percentage, in that case they'll have to prove that the owner was in on it and that can be a tough nut to crack, but all info ads up and will eventually lead to action.
It can take a long time though for us, the direct, 100% secure, result orientated baiter Rolling Eyes Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have e-mailed several banks to Alan. I have gotten a reply ranging from "I need more info" to "Thanks I got that from dozens of other" to no reply at all. Some I know have been shut down because the lad has told me that there was a "problem" with his "sisters" account and we need to use his "uncles" account or whatever.

Others I have no idea if they have been shut down.

I never tell the lad that it was shut down. All I tell them is that if they want me to send the $ there are forms to fill out. Then once I get the forms it takes my bank a while to send them to home land security or some such.

I have had some lads then say to use WU and we all know how that works out for them....

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