Warning to a Potential Victim

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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:56 am

I've been attempting to get 'friendly' with this lad, sending him lists of scammer email addresses as well as promising to help him make lots of money. Well he seems to have fallen for it hook, line, sinker, rod and boat. After reading the following series of emails I'm starting to think that perhaps I'm getting into dangerous waters. I think that it's worked out ok, but it might not have. What do to the experts here think??????

Lad to Me

Quote:

Good Day
I got your mail, how can i ever thank you for all you have done for me, you are really taking me like your own Brother, You are really a God sent person to my life i will forever be greatfull to you all te days of my life.
You made mention of you helping me, well below is the reply of one of the mugu
"I am still to be convinced that this is legitimate therefore I will not be providing you with any personal information. Please provide me with phone number and address so i can have friend validate this wonder full win"
Well i sent him a verification form for him to fill but he refused and sent the above reply.

Me to Lad

Quote:

Bro,
Tell him something like this, but use your own words.
Dear XXXXXX (put in the maga's name)
I represent the British International Lottery and we are holding an amount of $XXXXXX (put in the real amount) which is your winnings. The information that we are requesting is merely to verify that you are indeed the person who has won the prize.
British International Lottery is governed by the International Lotteries and Gaming Act, Section 419 of this Act expressly prohibits the use of any personal information for any purpose other than the verification of winners.
If you have any remaining questions please contact our Managing Director Dr Phillip Stein at [email protected] for complete details of our privacy protection policies.
Phillip Stein is one of my name and I would be happy to verify this story.

Lad to Me

Quote:

OHH THANKS ALOT I HAVE JUST SENT THE MAIL...PLEASE WHEN HE REPLIES TO YOUR MAIL FOR MORE DETAILS, PLEASE DO KEEP ME INFORMED..PLEASE JUST TELL ME HOW I CAN THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP YOU HAVE DONE FOR ME. YOU ARE THE BEST BRO...MAY THE GOOD LORD BLESS YOU FOREVER

Potential Victim to Me

Quote:

Can you please verify that is not a hoax and I wish to know why I can't have addrress of offices so I can arrange for my UK family to vist your address or cotact you locally to verify. I am sure that you understand that all this seems 'dodgy' and with all the scams on the internet we are warned about this makes us suspicious. If I have won then I am really happy as I can make a difference to many people's lives with this money
regards

Me to Potential Victim

Quote:

This is a Nigerian 419 scam, also known as an advance fee fraud. It is a hoax. Do not send this person any money. This is more than 'dodgy' it is attempted theft.
The internet is a strange place, in addition to scammers there are also people called baiters who reply to scammer emails to waste their time and try to protect potential victims. I have been baiting this scumbag for sometime. As he now trusts me he asked me how he should respond to your questions. I suggested that he should have you contact me to help him steal your money. Do not under any circumstances send him money - it is a fraud.
The way it works is that he tells you that your prize has been sent to a courier company and that they will dispatch it once you pay the necessary fees (this is why it's called advance fee fraud).
NEVER respond to any more of his emails and do not send money. There are many sites on the internet dealing with 419 frauds including a very good description on wikipedia.

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:05 am

Well, I see a couple of issues:

1. You might actually be "training" your lad to improve his scamming approach with future victims (when your bait is over, he will certainly use his experience and new material);

2. Approaching the victim yourself.- Perhaps you want to involve a moderator to do that;

3. Perhaps you are being scammed from the lad and the "victim"; should the latter prove to be another lad or an accomplice to your original lad, that is....

Food for thought. Wink

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:20 am

^^^ What jackndebocks said.

Murky waters here. Looks to me as if you actually provided the lad with an useable script to get more victims to fall for his scams... Confused

As for the potential victim, definitely involve a mod. Now.

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:25 am

Dude... you seem to be grooming the lad to scam!

Mate cut off communication... you've provided him with more than enough info to carry out scams.

You see, the less they know about how to structure a logical presentation of fact the better... think about if you received a letter that looked like it had been written by someone well educated and possibly native to English... you'd be far more inclined to believe them.

It's ok though, not too much damage done Wink

, just drop him and if you want, bait him (properly) from another account. Or, alternatively, don't give him any more helpful hints, ask for a list of his "mugus" and tell him you want to send them all scam-mail on behalf of him.

Naturally you'll simply use those email addies to warn them all...

Talk to a mod asap mate. Smile

Quote:

YOU ARE THE BEST BRO...

for once a lad actually means it...

Western Union · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:58 am

As has been said above, we need to be very careful we do not improve the techniques used by scammers. Your intentions were certainly laudable but giving them anything they could use on other victuims needs to be thoroughly thought through.

As for the potential victim � please PM the account details to myself or another mod and we will take a closer look at things. If a similar situation presents itself in the future it is best to contact a mod - warning someone in the process of being scammed can be difficult and complicated, and we can pass the information on to people experienced in working with victims.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7103 Location: Yes

It would be more useful to give your scamming lad some nonsense to write or better yet, tell him that you're working on something for him and will get it to him shortly. Then contact a mod so the victim can be warned prior to you doing anything with the lad.

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:15 pm

Wow. Truly, by sending him that well-written reply, you have violated one of the basic tenets of scambaiting -- never help the scammers become better at what they do.

I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing that text show up in other lads' scripts.

I think it's great that you've got a mugu believing you are for real, and if you can get more potential vics from him, that's teriffic. But you have to do it without improving the skills and strategies of the scammer. Otherwise, for every vic you save, there will be three more who lose their money to some other lad using your script.

Wannabe Baiter Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 87

would it be a good idea to put a sticky in the tips section about educating lads.

As a newbie, when I was scammed my first reaction was to gloat and tell the lad he was rumbled and how I found out he was scamming me (I didn't).

Its a first stage gut reaction to this stuff and understandable, but avoidable.

I am sure the experienced peeps on here could write a good article about how to act thick, greedy and (or) horny - as a newbie I am beginning to figure out its almost about getting in to a part and detaching the baiter character from the real you.

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:29 pm

Quote:

I have reported these email to the proper authorities and blocked them in my outlook express. I received another one this morning asking me to help retrieve their fathers money from Canada. they were supposed refugees in the UK from Zimbabwe.

Seems that I have saved one person from being scammed.

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:37 pm

And maybe helped a lad to scam many more in the process.

As others have said - we never provide lads with material that they can use on potential victims.

The first sentence may sound harsh, but you really need to consider what a lad may do with anything you might give him before supplying him with it.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:09 am

Quote:

Seems that I have saved one person from being scammed.

Your intentions were good, and this is a valuable result. The approach you chose was sound. There's only one small snag, you helped the lad improve his script. You could also have rewritten his script to make it say that the victim must discombobulate his winnings at the nearest British Republic Uber Lottery station, or something like that. The lad will be stupid enough not to notice.

Numerous baiters have done this in the past, and the results are often hillarious. This way, you get friendly with the lad AND sabotage his scamming routine.

There's still room for sabotage. Say him you want to rewrite his entire script. Preferably before he starts using this one. Back up the changes with bogus arguments.

This thread has some nice ideas on lad sabotage

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:11 am

Hi CollateralD-- re: original posting--^

You say your lad said --
QUOTE: You made mention of you helping me, well below is the reply of one of the mugu UNQUOTE

What's the story on THAT??? WHY is your lad mentioning the word mugu at this stage of your bait? It's a pejorative term they usually never use to us maghas until the time the lad twigs, i.e the last days of the bait. I have yet to ever see a mugu use the term mugu in an early-mid bait to me, they count on you not knowing that word to begin with..or scambaiting.

Your Lad appears to be a newbie at scamming. I hope his oga raised his eyebrow and later saw the blunder and made him eat cow-feet-soup and yam-stew for dinner as punishment.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:56 am

Relax guys, Collateral has understood about avoidance of Lad education so please stop rubbing his nose.

Maybe he should now pass the lad onto one of the seniors for appropriate grooming?

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:16 pm

Zorro^

To quote Aretha Franklin--who's zoomin who? Can't see anyone out of order above. Basic helpful hints and advice offered.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:08 pm

I think you can make the best out of the situation by telling your lad you have found the perfect maga for him. He will need to prove himself if he wants more help (which of course, you will never provide). Give him the address of a willing maga (another addy for yourself or another baiter) and bait him from two ways. The maga may be a bit suspicious and ask for well..... anything you can think of. You, as the new oga, can say something along the lines of:

Quote:

this maga paid before, and has more money. She is being difficult now, but just prove yourself and we can split the cash. There is a lot of money we can make from her. Just give her the (whatever you asked for). You need to invest some money to make money

Make sure the lad is too busy to try his new script Very Happy

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:08 pm

Has your pet ever gone by the name of Sgt John Guy? I had a bait going for a bit (which ultimately fizzled out) with a scammer using this name and part way through the bait I got an email from someone warning me that I was being scammed to which I replied "its cool I'm a baiter from 419eater" and they replied saying they visit this site themselves.

If so I'd love to have another crack at that guy, it ended unexpectedly and prematurely (like so many other things in life Shocked

) cos his email got shut down and I'd love another go.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:35 pm

Okay, the line may or may not have been crossed, that is academic now.

I like Persephone's idea, and we should have a mass bait to damage this mugus standing in the gang. Perhaps he will then change his script again.

@ Collateral, do you have enough of this lad's trust to introduce new victims that he will take up without too much suspicion?

Forever n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 432

FFS, the guy did a great job at gaining the lads trust and warning a victim. I'm sure he gets the point by now that we don't encourage educating the lads. If the lad even has an oga he has access to plenty of scripts. Sounds like he's a n00b and a loner though. I doubt that this one instance is going to help him get any closer to a successful scam.

I think your technique can be useful and successful, just (as SOOO many others have noted above) refrain from helping the lad polish a legitimate script. And maybe hit a mod up for some tips on warning the vics.

I think your motives were noble man, so I'm not gonna knock you a bit.

Master Baiter Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 187

Quote:

made him eat cow-feet-soup

Err, punishment?

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:45 am

All human made laws, rules and guidelines exist for the purpose of indicating what is acceptable behaviour but what is acceptable depends upon the circumstances. The commandment �Tho shall not kill� seems to be a total prohibition against all taking of life but it is widely interpreted to exclude self-defence, execution of certain classes of criminals, animals etc. My point here is simple whether something is a law, a rule, a guideline or even a commandment it is open to human interpretation and application.

I understand and agree with the rule of not giving lads something of use, but potentially anything we send can be reused for a purpose other than what we intended. Consider some of Shiver�s baits, they involve a well written piece of prose that could be adapted and reused. This is not an attack on Shiver rather what I am saying is that we must consider the risk Vs reward from any bait. Using Shiver as my example there is a good probability of wasting the lad�s time and resources balanced against a small probability of reuse. Therefore this is acceptable.

In my case my first point is that I know this lad very well. I have been baiting him from 6 different accounts for several months, as a little old lady living alone except for her cat, as an outback Australian crocodile farmer etc. One of my characters is a retired onga with a serious heart condition who expects to die soon. In that guise I have sent him heaps of scammer email addresses and tried to learn how he operates. I know that it is unwise to believe anything that a lad says but I�m pretty much convinced that he�s new to the business and very uncertain of himself. He has apologised for not emailing me because the police are visiting the cafes and he is scared of being arrested. Also he tells me that he sometimes lacks the money to send emails.

The lad also writes reasonable English (at least when he is writing to his victims). I have no idea what his educational level is but probably around senior secondary level (year 11).

So when he asked for my help in convincing his victim that his lottery was legitimate what was I to do? The options were:

1. Do nothing and possibly let the victim fall into the trap;
2. Ask directly for the victim�s email address;
3. Send him some seriously garbled words; or
4. Send him something somewhat believable.

Option 1 is (in my opinion) just not acceptable. Option 2 carried a serious risk that he would just say no. Option 3 is a possibility but remembering that he has reasonable English skills there was a risk that he would see through it and not use it. The only viable option that I could think of was to send him something believable (to both him and to the victim). Now we come back to the issue of risk Vs reward. The reward was a victim saved from falling into his trap and the risk was giving him something that he could reuse. In my view the reward outweighs the risk. The words I gave him are fairly well written BUT it would be the response from the Managing Director that would potentially sway the victim into believing the scam. Those words I am not going to give him.

So the rule of not giving a lad anything of value needs to be considered in terms of risk Vs reward. What is acceptable depends upon the circumstances. However, like all rules before we break or bend it some serious thought and soul searching is needed. If the same circumstances presented themselves again then I would do the same thing again.

If anyone wants to bait this lad his address is [email protected]

Now I�m off to catch up with my correspondence. I have just received an email from a Christian widow lady who wants me to adopt her puppy and I just adore puppies.

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:01 am

mate, you're reading into it way too much.

if you think you're providing the lad with something useful that he could use in a negative way and you dont have to provide it to him then dont. it is exactly the same as the moratorium on fake IDs... sure, they help your bait... but not nearly as much as they help the lad.

pretty simple.

the point is that you yourself recognised you were getting into "dangerous waters", and frankly, as far as i'm concerned, no harm was done at all, you brought it here and it has been discussed.

i really dont think you can analogise it to writing to a lad with good grammar and prose. Just because someone writes well to me in French doesn't mean I can do any better myself, but if someone tells me "copy paste this in French and send it to someone" well, I'll look like a French master.

As I said, no harm done, in my opinion there are 1000 ways to get on a lad's good side without helping him out. Sending him bogus material is just as effective as sending him literary gold, he simply doesn't know the difference, and if he does, he doesn't need you.

good luck with your baits.

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:30 am

/\/\

Collateral makes an excellent argument. What struck me most is that he was aware about the lad education aspect and made a considered judgement. The logic behind his judgement really impressed me.

Keep going collateral .....

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:13 am

Guineagirl^

I was being fascetious. Sorry if it wasn't apparent to ya.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:45 am

Thanks for posting the addy, CD.

Would an "I'm interested, please tell me more" email be enough to get the ball rolling with this lad? Or do you think I'd need to cut and paste the original intro email to my reply?

Come to think of......what sort of bait is this?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:16 am

Nick^

"I'm interested, tell me more" always works, no matter how you slice it. Do it 1 question at a time. Tell them the war-wound you got in whatever war forces you to only deal with one question at a time due to various mental instabilities as a result...

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