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 One of the problems with baiting

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Donation Giver
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I realize that an objective in baiting is to get these scammers to lose some of their money, but I can't help wonder whose money it is their spending. Scamming is a part time job for most of the scammers so either their expenses are being paid by money that their family can use(I'm sure these crooks have starving children), money stolen from victims of the scams and/or both. Aside from the 419 scam, what other jobs are there in Nigeria?

I don't know if I want to bait these people if their using money that can be used to feed their kids to take pictures of themselves with funny signs, making long distance calls and other things.
bmovies
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Joined: 09 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If these crooks are putting their time, money, and resources into scamming someone instead of feeding their families, then they deserve what they get from us.
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Mik Cisco
419Eater is my life


Joined: 10 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
I don't know if I want to bait these people if their using money that can be used to feed their kids to take pictures of themselves with funny signs, making long distance calls and other things.


Then don't bait them!

These "people" are out to con people (who they call mugus or fools) of their money. They don't care how their marks will get it. Beg, borrow, steal as long as they get it and send to them via Western Union.

What if I told you when I told one lad that the only way I could get the money he wanted was to steal it from an orphanage, he told me to do it.

By your analogy we should also not lock any criminals or thieves if they have kids.
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heinousmoz
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 02 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Donation Giver welcome abord it's nice to see you here. As for feeling sorry for the lads you're not the first to voice concern over baiting the scammers. However, before you start feeling too sorry for them you probably want to read this:

http://www.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4710

It's the true story of a real victim and I think it may help put things in perspective.

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Donation Giver
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'd like to clarify things by reminding everyone that I am not feeling any remorse for the scammers themselves. My assumption is that the scammers are possibly obtaining the money they spend from other victims and perhaps taking money their children could use.

Doesn't it cost money to use Internet cafe's, take pictures of themselves and mailing the pictures to baiters, making long distance phone calls and purchasing items that they use in the pictures? My guess is, the more baiters there are, the more money the scammer's will need to fund these activities powered by baiters, money that they may have obtained from 419 VICTIMS, which can lead to them attempting to scam more victims to make up for some of these costs.
Mik Cisco
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This thread is getting pointless as the only accomplishment will be baiting some baiters here.

But I have to come in like a moth to a hot light bulb.

Donation Giver,

You are implying that if they were not being baited they would spend that incremental time at home having quality time with their children.

I think they would be spending it at the internet cafes troling for more real victims to fleece.
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Donation Giver
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This thread isn't getting pointless, however you are being insulting.

I wasn't implying that they'd be spending time with their children instead of baiters if they weren't being baited. My implication was clearly based on the monetary aspect. But, logically how can you ignore the fact that these baits DO cost money and essentially you MAY also be spending a victims money, not just a scammers money. In essence, I believe there are more victims in these baits than just the scammers.
Lord Vader
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I donīt give a flying shit.
What you donīt understand is the fact that it is NOT some poor lads hanging out at a cafe trying to scrounge some money, but organized crime. Itīs a friggin industry. The victimsī money is already lost and so I am not too worried about wasting it. Itīs never going to come back to them anyways.
The more pain and distress I can cause the mugus the better.
They are not out to "feed their children", they are out to buy Villas and Benzos. Take my word for it. I wonīt say here where and how, but I know because Iīve actually SEEN that money. And we are not talking a couple of thousands, we are talking hundreds of thousands.
If you claim that they are trying to "feed their children" then the same holds true for the Cosa Nostra and the Russian Mafia.
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Fred Flintstone
419Eater is my life


Joined: 25 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Donation Giver wrote:
This thread isn't getting pointless, however you are being insulting.

I wasn't implying that they'd be spending time with their children instead of baiters if they weren't being baited. My implication was clearly based on the monetary aspect. But, logically how can you ignore the fact that these baits DO cost money and essentially you MAY also be spending a victims money, not just a scammers money. In essence, I believe there are more victims in these baits than just the scammers.


First the scammers are not poor. Some of them make more in one month than I make in several years.

Next it is their fault if someone gets hurt because of their scamming not ours. It is their actions that there is any harm done to anyone. When they stop scamming then this harm will go away.

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heinousmoz
Master of Master Baiters


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Donation, what we do as baiters is excatly that. Our aim is to waste the scammers time and resources (especially money) so they have less time to deal with the real victims.

There's a common preconception that the lads are struggling to make a living but in order to spend all day in front of a computer (and believe me that's exactly what they do) they have to already have money. The money that we waste is very likely money stolen from victims but the victims will never see it again and the scammers will be happy spending it on the luxuries of life like new cars. $1000 goes a long way in Nigeria and successful lads have a better lifestyle than most of us.

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Lord Vader
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Dear Donation Giver:
We are not a humanitarian "Have You Hugged Your Crook Today Because He Is African And Thus Less Guilty" board.
If that is a problem for you, then you are probably in the wrong neighbourhood.
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Lew_Skannen
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Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Scammers already fleece all the victims they possibly can. We are just making their job harder AND raising awareness of their activities.
If anyone thinks that our activities will lead to an upsurge in scamming by mugus on overtime trying to meet quotas then they are, at best, naive.

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wnt2scam2
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Donation Giver makes a logical statement in that we (hopefully) do cost scammer's time and money during baits. That is (mostly) why we do this and hope that we make them think twice about continuing their chosen profession. Most of us here do not feel guilty about that. They are thieves of the worst kind and we try to slow them down. I don't feel guilty that a criminal has to buy expensive tools to try to steal my car, break into my house, or even rob me at gunpoint because the money they spend to try to rob me could be used for their families.
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lister von smegg
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Lord Vader wrote:
I donīt give a flying shit.
.


ditto.

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troglodite
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Maybe if we waste <i>enough</i> of their money then they will realize what a waste scamming is and get themselves a respectable job.

Or not.
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Mountain Cat 1M
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Joined: 30 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Donation...not sure why you are concerned about taking their money...your first post was asking how to do just that
http://www.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10858&highlight=

Either way, if I was a real victim, I rather my stolen money leave the hands of the scammer and go to the baiter.

There is no connection between baiters and any adverse affects on victims. I would like to think we have saved at least 1 victim (grossly understated).

I sort of see your point, but I think over analyzing this.

ADDITION: I would like to think there is a code of conduct about getting money from scammers...that it go to charity or back into 419 awareness versus buying a new toy for yourself. Just wanted to add this point generally.

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Ironrod
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't understand the complaint...the disclaimer on the first page warns about getting involved in this. I am offended that someone would take the time to be a member and then whine about what we are doing.

I don't give a shit either.
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Donation Giver
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Lord Vader wrote:
Dear Donation Giver:
We are not a humanitarian "Have You Hugged Your Crook Today Because He Is African And Thus Less Guilty" board.
If that is a problem for you, then you are probably in the wrong neighbourhood.


You clearly didn't understand my posts.
McFlibbish
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I understand your initial post just fine. here it is summed up:
If we waste the mugu's resources we are taking bread out of the mouths of babes. Conversely, you are suggesting that if we didn't waste their resources the children would have a better life.

That is utter horseshit.

99.99% of the time, regardless of type of crime, a criminal is not trying to better their family's situation. They do it because of opportunity and it's easier than say, getting a real job.

Also just because someone CAN procreate doesn't mean everyone else has to provide welfare.

These people are criminals. And your post is the equivalent of trolling.

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Donation Giver
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mountain_Cat_1M wrote:
Donation...not sure why you are concerned about taking their money...your first post was asking how to do just that
http://www.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10858&highlight=

Either way, if I was a real victim, I rather my stolen money leave the hands of the scammer and go to the baiter.

There is no connection between baiters and any adverse affects on victims. I would like to think we have saved at least 1 victim (grossly understated).

I sort of see your point, but I think over analyzing this.

ADDITION: I would like to think there is a code of conduct about getting money from scammers...that it go to charity or back into 419 awareness versus buying a new toy for yourself. Just wanted to add this point generally.


I initially wanted to bait them into sending money that I can donate to charities and I made that pretty clear with that original post along with my username, but being the logical person that I am I believe in questioning everything.


Anyway, my thread has taken wrong turns with people incorrectly analyzing my posts. Even a moderator thought I was displaying remorse towards the scammers Rolling Eyes

Initially, I appreciated the objective of the site, but lately I've begun to question the motive for many of the baiters due to improper analyzations I've received from such a fundamental opinion. This "I don't give a shit" attitude makes me take many of you less seriously.

To those of you who actually care about the victims of 419 and desire to drive the 419'ers into doing less scams, I commend you. To those of you who've pretend to care about 419 victims and care more about simply baiting for sport, you need to get a life.
Fred Flintstone
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Donation Giver wrote:

I don't know if I want to bait these people if their using money that can be used to feed their kids to take pictures of themselves with funny signs, making long distance calls and other things.


Ok let me say it this way if you believe the above statement of yours then don't bait them. I hope you can clearly see we don't have any problem doing it.

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Donation Giver
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

McFlibbish wrote:
I understand your initial post just fine. here it is summed up:
If we waste the mugu's resources we are taking bread out of the mouths of babes. Conversely, you are suggesting that if we didn't waste their resources the children would have a better life.

That is utter horseshit.

99.99% of the time, regardless of type of crime, a criminal is not trying to better their family's situation. They do it because of opportunity and it's easier than say, getting a real job.

Also just because someone CAN procreate doesn't mean everyone else has to provide welfare.

These people are criminals. And your post is the equivalent of trolling.



Are you that Lord Vader person? you seem to be directly replying to a post I made towards his reply. If so, why do you have two usernames?

Again, you incorrectly analyze my post and you blatantly ignore other comments I made.

Surely, the Nigerian scam is an industry, but to ASSUME that it doesn't matter what you're doing is naive in my opinion. You don't know who every single scammer is. How do you know everyone you baited was part of a larger group? It does makes sense to presume these crooks can afford to waste time with baiters, but since these guys ARE crooks you have to consider ALL their means of obtaining their funds. I'm sure none of them would hesitate to steal cash from their wife's purse if their "scam managers" refused to pay for their trip to the WU. You have to believe then that they have "higher-ups" that give them the ok to do certain things and if they don't get that ok then they MIGHT attempt to pursue a scam on their own.

Now I'd rather just report these people to the authorities than bait for sport since I can't be sure exactly what's going on.

And, I don't think I'm trolling at all. I'm making points here, whether you agree with them or not. Now you tell me, are you a bona-fide good guy in your pursuit for justice or are you someone who uses the Internet most of the day and uses scam baiting for purely entertainment purposes.
Lincolnshire Poacher
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Who are you baiting, DG, and how far along are you?
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Ironrod
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ironrod wrote:
....the disclaimer on the first page"


My mistake, the warning is on the "tips and hints" page.
Namely: "If you are unsure of what you are doing please LEAVE WELL ALONE!"

http://www.419eater.com/html/baiting.htm

Donation Giver wrote:
This "I don't give a shit" attitude makes me take many of you less seriously.


And frankly, I don't give a shit.


Last edited by Ironrod on Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:12 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Voyeur
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I'm new here too. But all it takes is to read the sad story of a person who thinks he's actually won a prize, or actually thinks there's trunks of money waiting to be collected. No offense, but get serious man. These guys are criminals. Bad ones.
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