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 What do you guys make of this?

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mightyhoops
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Joined: 04 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am really worried about this. I found out that my parents are planning to buy a property in Bulgaira, they are flying out on Monday to meet some guy called 'Vick'.

He is going to pick them up from the airport and then drive them a very long distance from there to where the property is situated.

They have been asked to take over £2500 in Bugarian currency with them, they will obviously have their passposrts with them too.

Thing is they have sent this guy scans of their passports, f*ck knows why he needed that. He said they have to set up a company in Bulgaria in order to buy the house, and that the cash used to front the company can then be used against towards the house as well.

They asked him to send confirmation of where they are booked in to stay, but all he has sent them is an email saying it's going to cost them 40 something Euros per night.

What do you make of this, is this all normal when buying property over there?

What's to stop this guy turning up with some goons and taking the £2500 off them and leave them on the road?

Sorry to make such a long post, but I am genuinely concerned about this.

Here is a link to the property, it was an eBay auction that put them in contact with this 'Vick' character.

butt long linky

[mod edit: link shortened to avoid forum blowout - KD]

To top it all off, the guy only has 10 feedback, and these could quite easily be his accomplices as he hasn't been on eBay that long.
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budanzig
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I would urge your parents not to go - this definitely sounds like a scheme to me.

From the e-bay posting:

Legal and Financial part!
All legal work has to be conducted by our lawyers in Bulgaria. All papers of the property are checked and available!
Legal transfer fee 450 GBP
A deposit of 500 GBP is required immediately by PayPal. The deposit will go upon the purchase price of the property but is Nonrefundable in case the deal is not completed because of the BUYER!
A Bulgarian registered LTD company will be necessary to purchase the property!
Our lawyers will assist in registering one for you!

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Anti-419
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Is there a government website where you can check the validity of that property? I would first check if the property is legit and see if it belongs to the right person.

For example, you have a percel number which is associated with the property you own. Your name is also registered on that property and location. Anyone can simply go on a government county website and check the location and who owns with the parcel number.

Definitely research it to see if it's legit. Call the government / county to check up if it is real.

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Last edited by Anti-419 on Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hekate
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hoops

This should give you some more info:

http://www.property.bg/Buying_process-en.html

BG Properties exists, but the email addy on their site is different from the one the Ebay seller provides. And there's a big price discrepancy between their properties and what this one has been let go for.

http://www.mybulgaria.info/bulgarian-properties-from-bg-properties-ltd.html

I might be suspicious, but I think they should give 'Vick' a bodyserve.

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Togawa
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

IT IS A SCAM!
Check this home page
http://www.bg-properties.com
It's the company that allegedly posted the auction.
The properties are 10 times more expensive than the price the auction closed.
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GomerPyle
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Looking at similar prices for property in Bulgaria alone is a big warning sign.

That price is way out of line with the market prices, and as you say, the passport angle is very worrying.

Meeting strangers at airports abroad who know you have money in your pocket is, I regret to say, a recipe for disaster. No one can say for sure, but it is very unwise to meet with strangers abroad this way without knowing a lot more about what you're stepping into.

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mathias
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Buying properties in this part of the world is a very complicated process.

It can be done but for me buying an apartement in Turkey it took me THREE years until everything was finaly legalized with the authorities (where I had to bribe my way into) and I had to trust the Turkish property dealer as the apartement was registered in his name for almost 3 years until it was registered in my name.

In Bulgarai it should be the same very complicated thing.

As long as you don´t speak/understand the language you are completely dependent on what the dealers tells you and he will come up for sure with one after the next fee that has to be paid.

Everything may be legal and ok in the end but 100% overprized!!!

If you don´t know the country, the people, their customs and their LANGUAGE very well you will be cheated for all they can extract from you.

Tell your parents to stop that deal immediately!

Houses in Bulgaria like the one on the photo (and in all other parts of the world) don´t sell for under 50.000 U$. Anybody telling you a different thing is lying and cheating.

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Dark Spirit
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Here are the properties for sale in the Veliko Tarnovo region as listed by BG properties, check them ALL very carefully to see if that property listed on ebay is there, but to be honest I agree with the others, it stinks of scam, and the passport thing sounds a little scary too.

sorry but it is a long link and I do not know how to shorten it Embarassed

EDIT got it shortened ok Smile

http://tinyurl.com/yvjzsb

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Last edited by Dark Spirit on Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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benjaminbunny
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

SCAM!! look at the feedback - 10 Shocked
Would you buy a house on ebay from someone with afeedback of 10?
The only one to leave feedback with any real feedback himself bought
Quote:
excellent,must read if buying in bulgaria

a book or ebook or something!
I wouldn't touch it with a 20 mile barge pole

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Togawa
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I've just sent an email to bg-properties.com asking about the auction.
But it's way past business hours in Bulgaria. I'll let you know if I receive an answer.
Meanwhile, don't let you parents go. I see that there are more auctions of this same guy and some have ended already. Unfortunately, there's no way to check with the winners because they're all listed as private.
And you're right about the feedbacks. All but one are too old to see what was the auction about. But the last ones still have the auction reference number
Check this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270056675620
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270056675898
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270056677001
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270056677115

The auction is for information material about investing in Bulgaria. All of them ended with one bid for 9.99.
It doesn't mean that all the bidders are accomplishes but it can't be taken as evidence of reputation of the seller as a real state agent.
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Togawa
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Why don't you ask your father to call the office of BG Properties?

By Telephone or Fax
BG +359(0) 52 601 053
Mobile +359 889 625 888

Office:
Bulgaria, Varna
60 Kniaz Boris I Str.

(I can't believe I didn't think about this before... too much time spent with lads, my brain cells decay rapidly...)
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mightyhoops
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Joined: 04 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Guys, thanks for all your help. Please keep the info coming in if you think this looks suspicious. Really, really appreciate it.
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benjaminbunny
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I can't see anywhere that it says bgproperties.com (apologies if I missed it) on the ebay listing.
bgproperties.com has a bgproperties.com email addy - why use gmail?

Edit: And if they are BGproperties, why don't they list their web site? Not only that the ebay seller is registered in the US

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Togawa
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

benjaminbunny wrote:
I can't see anywhere that it says bgproperties.com (apologies if I missed it) on the ebay listing.


It's here
Quote:
Who we are: BG PROPerties is a joint venture of Bulgarian, English and American shareholders. It is run from Bulgaria and has offices in Sofia, Varna, Russe, Veliko Tarnovo and London – UK. The company has been running for three years now and offers: estate agency services, property legal services, company registration and accounting services, property management, property maintenance – including building, repairs and general refurbishments, trip planning and tourist services. For big investors we offer project management.
There's no mention to the site's URL though. But how many real state companies in Bulgaria has the same name?

benjaminbunny wrote:
bgproperties.com has a bgproperties.com email addy - why use gmail?

I agree. If it was posted by BG why use gmail and no link to the web page.
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mightyhoops
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Joined: 04 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Really appreciate all the stuff you've looked into, and thanks for sending off that email too.

I have just emailed the Bulgarian ebassy in London also in the hope that they can help me to get to the bottom of this before my folks make a big mistake.

I hope it all works out well for them, and it turns out not to be a scam but this is not looking good based on all the evidence so far.

My biggest worry is that they don't buy what I'm trying to tell them, I'll need some good evidence otherwise they'll end up getting that flight on Monday and meeting this guy.
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SlayerFaith
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

mightyhoops wrote:
Please keep the info coming in if you think this looks suspicious.

This stinks to high heaven, IMHO.
Looks like some other people thought so, too:
Quote:
IMPORTANT: We would like to appologize to all our custommers that on the 16-th Jan 2007 our ebay account RPROP was suspended and some of our valued clients decided not to close their deals. We do understand them and would like to appologize to them once again. Our ebay and Pay Pal accounts were thorougly checked and they were both reinstated on the 06-th of Feb. 2007. We supplied all papers requested by Pay Pal and ebay to proove that we are genuine sellers and our business is legal and trustworthy.

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Spooky Tooth
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Honestly, why would you EVER need to show your passport to anyone not a customs agent of the country you are going to??

This sounds like the typical scammer request where they see if someone is gullible enough to provide personal info over the Internet, so that they know they have a live one.

Insist your parents to hold off until you hear something concrete about this, 'cos my mugu-sense is tingling.

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PinkBunny
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I don't know anything about real estate, but I'm an eBay power seller.

Note that of their 10 feedback, almost all of it is from low feedback people - indicating that either they're shill accounts or just super inexperienced people. There's only a single item that I'd consider from a clearly real buyer. They're all from private auctions so you can't tell what they're for, they might have sold something for a penny, you don't really know. The fact it's exactly 10 feedback is also interesting because until you have 10 feedback there are certain things you can't do as a seller on eBay, so it's a natural number to pump yourself up to.

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SlayerFaith
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

A little reading material:
http://www.hobotraveler.com/da_sc_bulgariascams.php

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ANIMAL,MY FRIEND MY PRAYER IS THIS,LET ALL MY ENEMIES BE IN TROUBLE LIKE CHRIST INGIGE,AND LAZY PEOPLE LIKE YOU BE LIKE WABARA.THANK YOU- Kelechukwu Nduka
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Les Noise
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am a Realtor. I just spent an hour looking at properties in Bulgaria doing what we call a CMA (Comparative Market Analysis).. It is my professional opinion that this property is listed for sale well below market value. Even the dumpiest fixer-uppers are listed for sale way above asking price on this one.

To sum it up:


SCAM

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Spooky Tooth
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
would like to add the following advice for people who are thinking of investing money into property in Bulgaria...DON'T.Me and my wife went to a "reputable" Estate Agency in Veliko Turnovo to buy a villa which was being sold for the bargain price of 8,000 Pounds ($12,000).After a viewing we bought the property of the agent (A.J. Russimov) and were then told that we had to meet someone to arrange the proper transfer of ownership.After being threatened at gunpoint we were made to pay out another 3,000 pounds.We have NO way of getting this money back and our villa that we bought with the "deeds" has been taken off us due to a new roadbuilding scheme and we can't even get any money back from it.Don't go here to buy property because everything belongs to the Russian mafia.Everything including the Police.Stick to somewhere like Greece or Turkey.
Shocked Shocked

Give this little tidbit to your folks, and tie em to a chair until the plane departs if you have to.

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benjaminbunny
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It looks like the company referred to is:
BG PROPerties Bulgaria Ltd
http://www.bgprop.co.uk/

The house is listed here as no. 00389

Quote:
Contact details:
UK office - Bath Sales manager 0176 147 09 84 0780 847 69 47
UK office London Sales manager 0121 288 78 27 0796 034 42 43
Head quarters Director +359 89 6620066 +359 82 879001

There are NO names or addresses

Terms and conditions:
Quote:
' ); document.write( addy50074 ); document.write( '<\/a>' ); //--> "> [email protected] Copyright © 2006 bgprop.co.uk


Whois:
Registrant's address:
The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their
address omitted from the WHOIS service.

Registrant's agent:
Pipex Communications UK Ltd t/a 123-Reg.co.uk [Tag = 123-REG]
URL: http://www.123-reg.co.uk

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 08-Jun-2006
Renewal date: 08-Jun-2008
Last updated: 09-Oct-2006

profile from tradekey:
Quote:
This company is registered as a free member and is not verified or authenticated by TradeKey.com
Contact Information
Contact Person: Mr. Vlady Simeonov (Accounting)
Company: BG PROPerties Bulgaria Ltd
Address: Russe, Russe, , Bulgaria
Zip/Postal: 7000
Telephone: 0044-121-2880508
Fax: 00359-82-879001 (same fax number as web site)


A search for Vlady leads to a profile on Alibaba
http://www.alibaba.com/member/vlady69us/contactinfo.html
with the address
2 Studentska Str, Russe, Bulgaria

which is the address of a school:
School of General Education "Vyzrazhdane"
Stanislav Georgiev - Principal of SGE "Vyzrazhdane"
address: 2 Studentska Str
Rousse 7020

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icrighthruU
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:43 am Reply with quoteBack to top

WOW Exclamation Shocked Exclamation
You guys just save the lives of two people. You are all amazing.
Please have your parents read this and look at these links.
Quote:
In June of 1995, an American was murdered in Lagos, Nigeria, while pursuing a 4-1-9 scam, and numerous other foreign nationals have been reported as missing. FULL STORY IS HERE
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1641875,00.html


Quote:
http://www.419eater.com/html/419faq.htm

Quote:
http://www.419eater.com/html/ethics.htm
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Afferbecklauder
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

@benjaminbunny

The feedback you mention is actually the number of sales he has made. The feedback is actually 100%, BUT most of the sales are "Private".
In my part of the world this is a ploy used by Ebay scammers to attain a number of sales. They cannot be traced as to buyer, so may not have occurred at all, or he may have bought them himself using a different Ebay ID(s).
Apart from that clarification, I totally agree with the bargepole idea.
This modality is frequently used by Laptop scammers down under.

If the worst scenario eventuated, I would recommend the creation of some diversion that would prevent the parents leaving on Monday. eg badly blocked drains, a distant relative having a serious "accident", or anything to delay them until someone capable can check the title and covenants, and the actual seller. Rarely the details received from Ebay are worth the trouble. An ID can, and often has been created using false details. Ebay are not particularly helpful in these cases unless you can show them overwhelming proof of a fraud. Certainly they will not respond with any urgency.
Should all else fail, attemp to insist on a reputable escrow, and shy away from cash.

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Gnasher
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

mightyhoops - the verdict seems to be unanimous and there's a lot of background info and evidence to support it. This is a scam. Your problem is going to be convincing your parents by the sound of it. Please do all in your power to stop them travelling to Bulgaria on Monday and once they have read all the info provided here they can then make an informed decision. Slightly obvious question, but why to they want to buy a property in Bulgaria in the first place. Investment? Retirement? In any event eBay wouldn't be my first choice for finding ANYTHING, let alone a house. Despite the efforts of the management, eBay is awash with scammers and any transaction should be treated with extreme caution. Let us know what happens? Good luck.

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