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 lad virus

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zombie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I have been contemplating the ethics of an idea that occurred to me and would like a bit of input.

As our Lads are always asking for scanned images of this or that, is it ethical or not to send the Lads a script which would install itself and effectively shutdown the lads pc (basically a non-replicating virus). This would be fairly easy to achieve as the Lad would almost certainly run the attachment sent to them in their eagerness to try and thieve some more money from the poor un-suspecting folk they prey on.

Obviously, if the Lad is constantly trying to run up his computer but it keeps shutting down (only an example) then this would cost him in time (and, if the PC was his - possible expense fixing it) or is this not a viable option coz they all use internet cafes??

Any ideas or input would be appreciated. Please don't flame me for suggesting this, I just think the more weapons we have to slow them down the better.
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BRUIN
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We do not send viruses or commit other criminal acts.

Bruin
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OxygenDeprived
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

While a virus would run into law issues, I don't think there is a problem telling them if they can't open your file to do the secret windows command of opening a special vista menu by holding ALT and pressing F4. If they say it shut down a program slap them for doing it wrong.

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AlphonseTheFrog
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Lads use computers in internet cafes, which usually have strong anti-virus and anti-malware protection. Plus, even if you succeed in screwing up that computer, you are not hurting the lad, you're hurting the cafe owner. While the owner probably knows of the 419 scamming, he is not nearly as culpable as the lads, and does not deserve damage to his computers.

That's just my opinion.

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Seven of Nine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@zombie

Your proposal would violate the innocent third party rule. Guess what, most people who use internet cafe's are *NOT* scammers so this would inconvenience them, the owner, manager and staff of the establishment.

What would the lad do? Simply go to the next available machine.

The tried and true method is to send unreadable files then tell the lad he needs Winoze Vista and software package XYZ from somewhere on the internet for about $150 to view and print the file.

non replicating virus? You have described malicious code. That would be just as illegal to send as a virus so do not give the idea any further consideration.

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B. A. Ware
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thats a bad idea for many reasons. IMO don't do it.
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mike hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Seven of Nine wrote:
Your proposal would violate the innocent third party rule. Guess what, most people who use internet cafe's are *NOT* scammers so this would inconvenience them, the owner, manager and staff of the establishment.


This begs the question; are the cafe owners REALLY innocent? Surely they have to know what their computer is being used for. They are making money on a criminal enterprise.

Look at it this way, A known robber walks into your gun store. You KNOW him to be a robber. You sell him a gun and he robs another person with it. How innocent are you at that point?

You own a car dealership and sell a car to a person you know to have a suspended license and let him drive off with it. He hits a pedestrian and kills him. How innocent are you now?

Let's say we write a little nasty and sent it to known scammers and take out a few computers. Who's going to do anything about it? Is the FBI going to arrest me because some criminal can't continue his scam in another country? If they do not have time to go after the scammers in the US, they are not going to waste time tracking down someone who took out a known thief's computer.

edit: If memory serves, writing malicious code is only a crime if it damages the economy. THis code is protecting the economy. It can hardly be called malicious. Are all programs that screw up computers bad by nature? No. It depends on how they are used. Think of these as good white hat viri.

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Last edited by mike hunter on Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Les Noise
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^ This discussion has been had before... Bottom line We don't do this at Eater...Them's the rules.... Cool

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windypops
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Zombie, send your lad this instead. It's a doctored pdf. Opens in full screen. Press escape to close it. You can rename it photo, form, whatever.
Send it zipped so the lad must open it from his desktop.

Naughty pdf

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mike hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ok.. what about something like an adware payload. It's not malicious and therefore is not a trojan. It does not replicate and therefore is not a virus or worm. It is not malware as it doesn't damage the computer or it's operation.

Imagine this. Every time your lad send out an 419 opening move email, with out his knowledge, a header and footer is included that says "THIS IS A SCAM. SEE http://www.[warningpageURL].com for more information".

It ONLY attaches to emails that it determines to be 419 in nature. It does not effect anyone except it turns into a scarlet letter every time a lad uses it.

The Cafe soon becomes cursed for 419 scammers. They leave and legit users can find free computers when they want them.

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Seven of Nine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

@mike hunter

Refer HERE and if you have any further concerns regarding interpreting the Third Party Rule, then PM a moderator if you wish for the matter to be clarified.

mike hunter wrote:
...<Big Snip>... edit: If memory serves, writing malicious code is only a crime if it damages the economy. THis code is protecting the economy. It can hardly be called malicious. Are all programs that screw up computers bad by nature? No. It depends on how they are used. Think of these as good white hat viri.


btw, writing and in particular, disseminating malicious code would qualify as criminal activity (in most jurisdictions and circumstances) regardless of intent or intended target.

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mike hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You are misinformed. Writing a virus or the like is NOT illegal. Using it maliciously IS the illegal part. That is why you can buy books that tell you how to write them and they even provide code samples. If writing viruses were illegal, the lawful community would not be able to write virus-catching software. Writing the virus is not the crime. Releasing it AND causing HARM is the illegal part.

If you still believe that writing a virus alone is a crime then prove it by providing legal references.

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Scam Patroller
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

At the end of the day, it's not about who is right and who is wrong, we don't send anything malicious to lads, lads have enough crap on their computers that gets sent on to baiters and intended victims, we can do without adding more stuff to their computers that might come back to us.

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mike hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^ I agree, but in my last idea, herehttp://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=865359#865359 calling it malicious would be really reaching. I think it would be better served as calling it an enhancment. If it is non-replicating, it would not make its way back to baiters or victims.

It's just adware when you think about it. And as much as we do not like it, adware is not illegal or malicious.

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Mr Fishe
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Scampatrol is right. This is not something we discuss here.

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