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 It is a question not an attack

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JustDunno
Hello I'm New here!


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hey all! I am new to this and after reading some of the stories and laughed at some of the stupidity still some questions remain:

Is it not that people who are getting scammed are looking for an easy profit and if it were real would be fraudulent as well? Why try to help these people this way instead of trying to get more public awareness to make these ignorant and often greedy people stop falling for this dumb scheme?
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SlayerFaith
Baiting Guru


Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 5778
Location: Vegas, baby!


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Is it not that people who are getting scammed are looking for an easy profit and if it were real would be fraudulent as well?

Depends on the scam. In a straight up 419 NOK or overinvoiced contract, yes, the victim is not always a completely innocent little lamb. That said, we deal with all kinds of scams that fall under the 419 umbrella, many of which require only a lack of internet awareness and a trusting nature on the part of the victims.
Quote:
Why try to help these people this way instead of trying to get more public awareness to make these ignorant and often greedy people stop falling for this dumb scheme?

I do object to the use of "ignorant and often greedy" to describe scam victims. That said, public awareness is the goal of this site. We simply choose to educate the public through the use of humour. IME, a message learned this way travels farther and is more often remembered.

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Standard Procedure
Master of Master Baiters


Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 845
Location: Physically at school, mentally at the Grand Prix


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Usually, 419 scams target those who want to get rich quick, and the money that the scammers offer is hard to pass down, it's too good to be true, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that they are greedy. But, like everything else, there are exceptions, and they can also target those who are good on the inside because they want to help out and know no better. Like SF said earlier, the eater deals with many different type of scams.

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DrWho
Baiting Guru


Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Where ever I go, there I am


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Have you ever been walking down the street and found some money? Did you pick it up? Were you greedy by picking it up or did you think that "maybe life is just being nice to me today"; or "this is my lucky day". After picking it up did you try to find the rightful owner? I doubt it. Should you be made fun of and told you should be in jail you greedy bastard?

Have you ever gotten cuts in a long line? Did the people behind you beat the crap out of you for it or did you think you were justified?

People have many reasons to being willing to believe in a too good to be true scam. I have found in that many are not greedy, they hope and believe that their ship may finally have arrived at a time when they could use it. Humans have the ability to rationalize what they want to believe.

Quote:
these ignorant and often greedy people
Given a while, I could get you to fit into this category. Smile

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Tsnerd
Not quite a Newb


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 41


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Is it not that people who are getting scammed are looking for an easy profit and if it were real would be fraudulent as well?


Nope.

Victims of romance scams are certainly not greedy.

Interesting first post, though.

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GomerPyle
Baiting Guru


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Welcome to the fold JustDunno - and don't think I'm jumping all over you, and it is reasonable to have some doubts. I had a few myself in my early days on ethical issues. However, after you have witnessed a few scams targetting charities you get a different perspective.

The fraudster is the criminal and you'd be in no doubt if your own grandmother got hooked by one of these scammers. Looking for a quick and easy profit in itself isn't a crime, or banks, casinos and many other companies would be in trouble, and it doesn't justify a criminal using illegal methods to part them from their money. Being gullible and trusting isn't a crime either, nor is somone looking for a good deal on buying some goods.

There's a lot of fun stuff happening here, but also a lot of serious effort too, to combat criminals whose only aim is to steal money from people.
Read the serious notes here about why we do what we do. Sometimes the fun part of what we do obscures that somewhat - but you will at least learn the full picture here.

Please don't think that I am attacking you or your view -that isn't my intention - I know what you're getting at, but the more you read here the better you'll understand the situation.

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music man
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Joined: 22 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Check scams, lottery scams, charity scams, romance scams, job scams- which of these is being perpetrated on people who don't need our help?

Is it wrong to try and earn some money legitimately as a company "representative"?

Is it wrong to believe that you have won a huge amount of money in a lottery in a foreign country?

.................?????????????

there are a lot of very naive, people out there who are not looking to break the law- just to try and get on with their lives and maybe make a few bucks legitimately in the meantime

Oh- and welcome to 419eater!!

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Eight
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Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 8711
Location: UK


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:16 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think unaware is probably a kinder word to use than ignorant, but there is certainly a lack of awareness, and rectifying that is part of what we do here. If you stick around, see the various types of scams, and how low these scum can go, maybe you'll came back to this thread and answer your own question. Very Happy And you'll also have a damn good laugh and "meet" some great people. Very Happy

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Herb Sewell
419Eater is my life


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 406
Location: Atascadero State Hospital for the Criminally Insane


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:27 am Reply with quoteBack to top

My Stepfather was scammed about 8 years ago. This was a simple man who only gave everything He owned to all those around Him. This Man is one of the most the most giving, loving persons on this planet. Just not too street smart. So, no. What about My Mom ? She was victimized by all this also. So the answer is no. As to the other question, go ask a policeman why he doesn't quit his job to go work in a rehab center. Or ask a rape victim why she wore a short dress. Like TSNerd said, interesting first post. And by interesting, I mean suspicious.
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cvb
419Eater is my life


Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 489
Location: UK


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JustDunno

I think it very precisely comes down to this.

Quote:

Is it not that people who are getting scammed are looking for an easy profit and if it were real would be fraudulent as well?


The answer to that question is no. Not all the time and quite possibly very little of the time due to the wide variety of scams we deal with. So we try to do our best to both educate possible victims and frustrate would be fraudsters.

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Slightlyoutofit
Baiting Guru


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 14310
Location: Foraging for Nuts.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm not trying to sound nasty, but the people who defend scammers by blaming their victims are way more ignorant than the people who fall for those scams.

It's like blaming the guy on a pedestrian crossing for getting run over or blaming a rape victim because she wore a short skirt.
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mrsbean
Elite Baiter


Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 1775
Location: North of the Rio Grande, South of Alaska


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

JustDunno wrote:
instead of trying to get more public awareness to make these ... people stop falling for this


Baiting does raise awareness. For every person who passes along a funny bait they read, or every news article on a baiter, baiting site, or funny bait, that raises awareness.

And baiting does not exclude you from raising awareness in other ways and other venues. Quite a few of us are involved in other anti-scam awareness campaigns and tactics. Busier baited scammers, wasting more resources = potentially fewer losses by real victims. Educated potential victims less likely to send money to a scammer = potentially fewer losses by real victims. It's equally hard to measure concrete results with either method, but it does have the same result, baiting and education.

Another factor is cost. Baiting is largely near-free, except for the time you put in. Participating in a large public awareness campaign, at least beyond say, running a website or forum, is quite a long way from free. You cannot just stick your hand out and get government funding for a multimedia awareness campaign about the forty-nine varieties of scamming, which is quite different from the onslaught of public service ads you see for the dangers of smoking or the importance of literacy.

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Dirteh Sanchez
Elite Baiter


Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 1470
Location: Under Parliament somewhere...


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Lets see.

I smell a hit and run..

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Scam Patroller
Baiting Guru


Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^^^^ Yep, my only comment is, sniff sniff

Fee fie foe fum, I smell the blood of a trolling scum

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Anti-419
Elite Baiter


Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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Location: Bay Area, CA


PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I hope that the mods didn't put that ban hammer away so quickly after that "recent" ban.

The Big Sticky titled "Ethics of Scambaiting" can make a person alot smarter. It's a nice read if you think every victim are greedy or these thieves are justified to scam.

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Nick L Cadmium
Master Baiter


Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 166
Location: Lying in the arms of Mary


PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Go to the Sick Children bait thread. Look at the pictures on the real Facing Africa site, the people from which the money is being diverted. These are not ignorant or greedy victims.

@SP & DS Fishy.

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