Ringing Up Those Long Distance Charges

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 37

I often get asked for phone numbers, so they can talk with me directly. Rather than give them a fake one or play it off, I decided to kill two birds with one stone.

I found this website
http://www.whocalled.us
which lists phone numbers used by telemarketers. I'd give them a telemarketer's numbers (one or two with area codes and one with an 800 number) and tell them to call me there. If they complain about not getting through, I'd just tell them I'm having problems with that account.

Even if they got through and talked to some one, the telemarketer wouldn't know who the scammer was asking about and the scammer just got charged for a long distance call. I'll grant that this could end any potential bait, but it is some money the scammer is losing and I get to annoy a few telemarketers.

Now, I'm not using just ANY telemarketer's number. Just the ones who call more than once a day, several times a week, etc. Let's see how they like getting the annoying calls from people they don't understand.

I wish I knew how much a phone call from Nigeria to Ohio costs. If I had a fake address for them to mail stuff to, it would be perfect. Cost them some postage, too.

Any feedback?

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:29 pm

Yeah, I have some feedback. What you're doing is called "involving a third party"..... strictly outside of ethical scambaiting.

It was a nice thought, and your heart was in the right place, but please don't involve unwilling third parties again.

There's loads of ways of costing your lad some long distance phone credit..... get a cheap cellphone and chat to them, do the same via skype, get a K7 number, put the lad on to a "Pimper".... the list goes on.

You may think you're "getting your own back" on the cold calling companies, but it's their innocent employees you're harming, not the companies:
Imagine if you were working in a call centre because it was all you could get. Now imagine recieving death threats from some scarey random African guy.....
Not nice.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:42 pm

As much as I like the idea of annoying telemarketers, its kind of a no-no, but as the kind fellow above me says, theres plenty of other options...I prefer to either use K7 or else give him a number of a phonebox in Alaska Laughing

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:21 pm

I love the idea. I really do. They do deserve it too for their annoying never ending calls. But it is a no-no. Evil or Very Mad

But what if your number is on the Do Not Call list, and they call anyway? Yes you can report them & I think something bad/inconvenient happens. But the 3rd party wouldn't really be so innocent would they, could you give out those telemarketers' numbers? They broke the rules first. Rolling Eyes

Could an exception be made in such a case? Would it be any different then if the telemarketer calls & you decide to say, personally f*ck w/ them. Like if you pretend they've called a murder scene in let's say, oh I don't know, Clayhatchee, Alabama (pop. 501), you are investigating & you interrogate them on the phone & try to make them admit they are the victim's psychopathic gay lover? Would that really be so different than giving a mugu the telemarketer's number? Both waste time, promote confusion, terror even in the murder investigation scenario, and give you a nice chuckle (which is pretty high up on my priority list).

I don't want a dreaded ethical debate to break out or anything, just trying to test the boundaries & limits of this telemarketers as ITPs argument. Wink

Not quite a Newb Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 37

Just a few words in my own defense.

Let me be clear: the numbers I give the scammers to call are on the Top Ten lists, as far as number of calls reported. The Top Tens are the ones who call 1) despite the receivers' number being on the Do Not Call list; 2) despite the receiver informing the caller not to call back; and 3) making multiple calls to the same receiver more than once a day or week. Imagine getting six calls from the same number in a given day, despite being on the DNC list and/or telling them not to callback. The Top Tens are all known for that. Hardly innocent third parties and I think that the no-no regarding involving third parties means innocent third parties, not a seperate group of scammers.

Besides, in my opinion, telemarketers (as defined above) aren't innocent people who can't get another job any more than the rank-and-file scammers are excused for the same reason.

If a telemarketer receives a call from some scammer asking to talk to some one and doesn't recognize the name, he'll hang-up. The same if the caller becomes angry or abusive. Your typical scammer won't keep throwing good money after bad, trying to keep calling the number I gave him, when he sees that it's not getting him anywhere. He'll just send me another email asking for my real number.

You aren't obligated to read or respond to scam emails. Most informed people simply delete them when they receive them in their inboxes. But, you do have to answer your cellphone when the telemarketers call you, no matter how many times they do or your voicemail will pick it up. Most cellphone providers don't have the ability to block certain numbers and you can't mark certain numbers as spam, the way you can with email.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:08 pm

I personally agree with you about the telemarketers, the aggressive ones. They are 3rd parties true, but they are not all that innocent. Is there room for an exception if a certain telemarketer keeps calling you despite you being on the DNC list, telling them to never ever pick up the phone again & even think about dialing your number, etc? No one is forcing a telemarketer to call you 6x/day & on your cell during peak hours. I just don't think they are that innocent. They are just random people the scammer may come in contact with thru the course of a bait. Like the tattoo artist. How is it different from having lads pester the good folks at WU over & over?

But giving the scammer such a number could put the brakes on a bait. But you could say it's your work #, it's a huge company, the person answering doesn't know everyone who works there, etc.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:15 pm

I've actually worked in a call center, and I can tell you - it's very likely that they are people just looking for work too, and innocent. Besides, you can't guarantee that that particular number is going to go to the individual telemarketer that annoyed you so much.

"Innocent third parties" here doesn't mean how morally angelic they are. It means how separated they are from the world you've created between you and the scammer.

Getting the mugu to catch a bus to the middle of nowhere to meet you isn't involving an ITP because the bus driver is being "a bus driver". As long as you don't introduce him as your personal chauffeur - he's just doing a guy doing his job of driving a bus.

Telling a scammer that this is YOUR number, and it turns out to be a telemarketer, is roping that telemarketer into a game they didn't want to play. No involving ITP.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:28 pm

I did telemarketing twice, once for a oprofit, which I liked, and the other selling worthless junk. Telemarketers have it rough.

Okay, but, and this is Devils Barrister talking, what about having the scarmers call Aryan Nations, or th Tuscaloosa Knights of the Ku Klux Klan? That is going to cost a pretty penny, and then they get racist hate mongers on the other line. We can all agree they suck, hateful, racist, etc.... so... are THEY innocent parties? or is this a hair splitting issue?

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:31 pm

I still argue that "innocent third parties" has nothing to do with how MORAL they are.

Innocent means are they PLAYING YOUR GAME.

The KKK, though racist and scary, aren't agreeing to be anyone but themselves. If you TOLD your scammer, somehow, they were going to be communicating with the Grand High Wizard - then you are not involving an ITP.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:42 pm

Just playing Devils Barrister....

(anyone want his number Laughing

)

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:43 pm

Just kidding! I don't have the Grand Wizards phone number....

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:11 pm

Best you got is the Grand Dragon, huh? Wink

Why is the most racist group ever conceived have such D&D type names for their rankings? (rhetorical...just THINKING about these guys this much makes me a little queasy).

I swear I read once that one "rank" is called a "Centaur".

Where were we? Oh right. No ITP.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:17 pm

Regardless of how evil the telemarketing COMPANY is, the vast majority of employees making the calls are INNOCENT THIRD PARTIES.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:02 pm

I don't think the telemarketers or the companies are evil. They are annoying. They get paid to talk on the phone, so in a way, they are doing their job. What if a telemarketer calls you, gives you their number & you give it to your friend, who happens to be a mugu & they call. Aren't you just fundamentally connecting 2 people who want to talk on the phone? With the added benefits of wasting the scammer's money, giving the telemarketer a taste of their own medicine, preventing the scammer from getting to real victims, & keeping the telemarketer away from people who don't want to talk to them anyway. It sounds like a good deed to me.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:53 pm

The K7 number is a tried and true modality. It costs the baiter nothing, forwards the message and wastes the scammer's time and credits. I like to give it out very early in the bait. I've altered the outgoing message so that it sounds like a real phone. I've recorded ringing before the message and have the message run into the second minute. I also tell the scammers that I am a single woman and am using the answering machine to screen my calls for security. They have to say my name three times slowly and their name three times before I will pick up the phone. If I don't pick it up, it means that I am not home and they will have to leave a message. If you are out of the country and need help setting up an account, PM me and I will assist.

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:53 am

Regardless of how you feel about telemarketers, you can not involve them in your baits (well, you can, but it is wrong). You are interfering with their job. Even if you disagree with the policies of the company, you are involving an innocent person in your bait, which is a big no-no. I've known people who have been employed by telemarketers, and it is not a good way to make a living. Some people just do not have the education or experience to get a better job, and by involving them, you are only making their lives more miserable and less profitable (as many of them work on commission). Lads do enough damage to the fabric of our society, please don't drag more innocent people down, too.

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:32 am

Hi Connie,

I am interested. I have PM'd you.

Thank you,

Doc

Wannabe Baiter Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Posts: 90

When I have too many baits going on at the same time I will give lads from different countries each others number. It makes them spend their money, keeps 'm busy, there is no innocent third party involved and it causes a hell of a lot of confusion. Twisted Evil

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:27 pm

Oy another ethics thread.... okay...

If someone argues that Telemarketers are evil and should not fall under the ITP rule, where do we stop?

I think that the ACLU and PETA are evil as is the National Rifle Association, Planned Parenthood and Operation Rescue.... (there I think I covered all the political areas at least here in the US) so can I give out THOSE numbers? If you say yes to some on this list, but no to others why? Is it because those on your no list conform to your belief on a topic and therefore are "innocent" and the others have differing view and are therefore not innocent?

If that is the case then how do we differentiate?

Note: I am not trying to be political in this post, just pointing out that what you think is "evil" is going to be someone else's company or organization that they truly believe is what is best viewpoint for the world/their country.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:58 pm

Mr Man,

Well pointed out. I, however, am a member of both the ACLU and the NRA, admire PETA for their convictions and support Planned Parenthood, and believe that Operation Rescue is a noble organization (okay, lied about that last bit), but definitely see hgate groups like the KKK in a whold different category.

I am not advocating deluging them with calls from Africa looking for money (though their is a certain poetic value to this...), but wanted to differentiate twixt potentially objectionable organizations and hate groups. KKK is still ITP, so no go....

Doc

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:23 pm

There are so many perfectly useful scammer numbers out there. . . just pass a lottery scammer's number on and see what happens. Do something like this:

"Here is my number [insert lottery scammer's number]. If Phillip answers, DO NOT tell him what you are calling about. Phillip is my brother and he CANNOT be trusted. Just hang up and try again later"

Naturally, I am assuming that the "claims agent" for the bogus lottery is using the name "Phillip".

Bruin

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:37 pm

What if it's the KKK doing telemarketing?

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