An $0.02 worth

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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:23 pm

If you're going to bait a lad properly (not including baiting to get experience before you do this), you won't stop him scamming by taking 10 minutes out of his day.

You should paralyze his operation, otherwise he'll still scam the little old lady.

Discuss.

Master Baiter Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 133

What do you mean by properly in that case. Surely we can only take up as much of their time as it takes to read/respond to an email (do pics etc) If we could have them them sat reading encyclpedias for days on end, then surely we would. But we do what we can do. Some is better than none!

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:39 pm

I guess every little bit counts. It's very difficult for us to paralyze their operation, and by taking 10 minutes out of their day at least that's 10 minutes they weren't spending on finding another little old lady.

Furthermore, what if I'm not the only person baiting this lad. If they've got 5 or 6 baiters then all of a sudden a big chunk of their day is taken up by such a thing. And once a bait gets through to the more advanced stages it can take up more than that amount - I know for a fact that a couple of my lads at the moment probably spent at least an hour or two dealing with me every day.

I guess what's the alternative? Don't even try?

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

Roy, can you clarify your first post, please?

The way I read that is that you are having a go at somebody.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:47 pm

Not at all, TSN, I wasn't having a go at anybody,I was lighting the blue touchpaper and retiring.

If you can send them on a pointless journey, or teach the a lesson they wont foget in a hurry, you may stop them choosing it as a career option, but if you only take 10 minutes of their time every day or too, however funny it is, they still scam on regardless.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:57 pm

In a way it's the whole recycling argument. Whether or not I decide to recycle my paper/plastics/foodscraps isn't going to make much of a difference to the environment. But if you get a whole pile of people recycling then it does make a difference. Every little drop in the bucket counts I guess is the point.

If you can pull of something really big and put a scammer off what they do then that's a huge bonus. Otherwise if enough people waste the lad's time then we are wasting their internet cafe dollars and making scamming less profitable for them, even if we don't put them off it altogether.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:01 am

@Josh - 'nuff said

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:05 am

There will always be scammers, people who ride for free on the backs of others. To think that we can get rid of them... that's just an overly optimistic delusion.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

It's not just time wasted, it's resources. . . . and then the mental anguish. I like to think that we make their jobs harder with our psychological torture.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:14 am

^^This is most obvious in high-profile baits such as Ed's Singapore sojourn and Shiver's latest achievement. But even with other, simpler ones, I can imagine we drive the lads nuts.

I think a potentially more pressing concern is whether we should act a bit more like real victims at the start of each bait. Are we educating the lads into figuring out the difference between baiters and real victims?

I know a lot of lads are too stupid to know the difference, but maybe the smarter ones have figured it out and they're just ignoring us yet still creaming the old ladies.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:03 am

I don't know about the majority here, but I do this for laughs. Sure I get to feel nice and self-righteous at the end of the day, but I don't see myself as a champion of justice because I drove a scammer crazy. I do this because I need an escape from reality but I can't afford expensive drugs! If I can do my part to stop these bastards (and my part is small) then so much the better, but I'm not trying to save anybody.

A cop acquaintance of mine pointed out that if baiters were truly only interested in bringing scammers to justice, we'd just report them to the proper authorities and let the professionals do their jobs! (Yeah right) My two cents? Saving the world was a big enough job for Jesus, so I'm not even going to try to pull it off myself.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:54 am

If I waste an average of 10 minutes of their time and resources every day, I've accomplished something positive. I usually have 3 or 4 baits going at one time, thus it adds up. My baits are designed to waste a lot of their time, energy and resources with minimal effort on my part. If I can make a lad more cautious or more likely to drop a potential victim when things go off script the next time, that is an accomplishment also. If I have fun with the bait, that is a bonus.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:06 am

Losst Jedi wrote:

I need an escape from reality but I can't afford expensive drugs!

I do get a certain adrenaline fix each time I hear the email 'bla-ding' sound...

For some reason I just love making up terrible, terrible lies. That's my reason for doing it. I doubt I will ever be able to cause enough frustration to make someone quit; or even slow them down.

But that's not why I do it.

*bla-Ding!* Laughing

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:22 am

We would all like to leave our internet pets permanently scarred in ways that only an insane person could think of... however lets face it there are a lot of people like me who are noobs at baiting. So while gaining experience may not hit the pets hard, it's an investment to the future of baiting. Very Happy

Cheers!

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:14 am

Losst Jedi wrote:

A cop acquaintance of mine pointed out that if baiters were truly only interested in bringing scammers to justice, we'd just report them to the proper authorities and let the professionals do their jobs!

Excellent advice! Now why didn't think about that earlier? Laughing

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:26 am

Roycropper wrote:

If you can send them on a pointless journey, or teach the a lesson they wont foget in a hurry, you may stop them choosing it as a career option, but if you only take 10 minutes of their time every day or too, however funny it is, they still scam on regardless.

A hint of despondency there Mr Cropper, as owner of the Seamugu, I thought that you, more than most members, appreciates the 'lad that just keeps on giving'.

I don't know how we as baiters can actually close down a scammer's operation without resorting to illegal activities. However, there are enough baits here that are way over the 10 minutes a day marker. They prove that so long as the carrot is big enough, you can waste whole days and weeks of a lad's time.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:27 am

Some excellent points raised by Josh, Ima, Otterfan and PRS.

I'm no expert baiter, and probably never will be. I'll probably never get a trophy, I'll never get a shield on my siggy, or even a flag for that matter.
But I don't care.
I know that I waste maybe 10 minutes a day of a lads time, and that in itself is no huge achievement. But if PRS, Ima, Otter and Josh are all taking 10 minutes a day from the same lad, then it hurts his wallet. And stops him spending that internet cafe time on "Little ol Lady".

Add to that the 5 minute phone calls I field daily for other members, and the fake cheques that cost the lad $25 a time to produce and send, then most importantly add the hundreds, and thousands of other baiters doing the same (or sometimes less, or sometimes more) and we are hitting the lads in the family jewels, both mentally and financially.
THEN add to that the fact that a lot of us go out of our way to de-educate lads and make them easier to spot..... I could go on.

Yes, we'll never stop it. But I think collectively, we do a good job.

I must admit I'm surprised you brought this up Roy.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:36 am

Quote:

Excellent advice! Now why didn't think about that earlier?

Where's the fun in that? I doubt there'll ever be an episode of COPS shot in Lagos (though I would watch it if there was), so I guess it's up to us to make the mugus' lives more interesting.

Besides, if all the lads were thrown in jail, who would we bait? Geez Don, think before you ask these questions eh! Cool

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:38 am

Don wrote:

Excellent advice! Now why didn't think about that earlier? Laughing

Agreed! Unfortunately, when I report scammers to [email protected], no action is ever taken! Evil or Very Mad

Seriously, though. If you want to do some serious damage but don't feel that you can pull off the safari/tattoo/handwritten book or more extreme baiting modalities; try baiting for fake sites, real bank accounts, and/or fake cheques. These are modalities that really waste a lad's resources, and all are nearly custom made for straight baiters who can throw their lads just a bit of a curve in the right direction.

That said, Eater has many niches to fill, and something for everyone who wants to contribute. As long as the folks here are contributing, we are certainly moving in the right direction!

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:51 am

Losst Jedi wrote:

A cop acquaintance of mine pointed out that if baiters were truly only interested in bringing scammers to justice, we'd just report them to the proper authorities and let the professionals do their jobs! (Yeah right) My two cents? Saving the world was a big enough job for Jesus, so I'm not even going to try to pull it off myself.

A serious question for your cop chum.

The London Metropolitan Police put up a special website for people to report scam emails. They even asked aa419 to publicise it, which we did on our front pages. A year later what is happening? We understand that although thousands of people have forwarded their emails to www.met.police/fraudalert, no one is even opening them. So how do we report scams so that the cops actually do their job which is to "protect the innocent".

aa419 has now removed the link.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 23 Jun 2007 Posts: 45

Like others have also stated, I do this for fun. My baits haven't went very far, but I'm still learning. And if all I ever do is waste a few seconds or emails from a lad, then that's a few seconds not spent on, or a few emails not sent to, potential vics. And who knows, I might come across a fake bank site or a scammer's bank account to shut down, and save a couple of potential vics. Ya never know.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:18 am

I don't think that we can paralyze a scammer. It is very hard for me to let go of a lad. So I usually bait the mugu from 4 different accounts.
Each one has 3 or 4 characters. This gives me some insurance that I am keeping the lad happy and busy.
I like to trophy bait. If I can send a mugu on a safari, I am taking his precious time from potential victims.

Every baiter, even if he takes 10 minutes from the mugu is helping in preventing the mugu from potential victims

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:04 am

@ Old Coaster: Note the "yeah right" part of my quote. Very Happy

Actually, I posed a similar question to my cop "chum" (more professional acquaintance really), and here's what I was told about the RCMP's Phonebusters unit...

- The number of people who use the internet for criminal purposes (including 419's) is just overwhelming. There's no way to catch them all.
- Sadly, 419's rank low in priority for cops. Sexual predators, stalkers, ID thieves, etc. are higher on the list.
- Even when the scam originates in their own jurisdiction, cops need a mountain of solid evidence just to press charges against a scammer. To request an extradition or even to turn an investigation over to the police in another country would require even more evidence. A series of e-mails involving assumed names just doesn't stand up in court.
- It would be nearly impossible to prove the true identity of the scammer, which has to be done to start an investigation.
- If you think our (Canada, US, UK) justice system is faulty, you really don't want to see what goes on in the countries where most of our lads come from.

I imagine if the police anywhere are as busy as the Phonebusters unit, they're just innundated with business and can't keep up. I'd personally love to see a branch of Interpol operating somewhere staffed with cyber-ninjas and given 007-style authority doing nothing but hunting scammers, but something tells me that's just not going to happen.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:04 am

Call me a cynical old Vogon if you like, but I'm sitting here watching this thread evolve and I'm thinking to myself, I bet Roycropper is sitting there having a good old chuckle to himself.

The clue was in his final word "Discuss".

Its an interesting exercise in Human Psychology.

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:24 am

If the lad's taking 10 minutes per person, and scamming for...8 hours a day, let's say-then he has 48 people going. In other words, if a lad has 48 baiters on him, then we've effectively shut him down. Or 12 baiters with 4 characters. Not too astronomical a number. I'm sure some mass baits we have could get more that 48 combined characters. IOW, that lad is 100% shut down. In theory, at least. Also, consider the time drain of phone calls, filling out forms (especially long ones), travel, etc, which could take the lad out of comission for days.