Lots of Money Orders and travellers checks

By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics and access other forums reserved for members. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today by clicking here.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:28 am

I reply to every job offer that comes into my in box. I have collected many checks and now I am collecting some very convincing money orders and travellers checks. ( they are mailed to a safe address)
Does anyone know the source and cost (to the scammer) of these
Money orders and Travellers checks?

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:41 am

Sam I Am wrote:

I reply to every job offer that comes into my in box.

I hope you mean your baiting inbox. It's not a good idea to respond to anything sent to an email inbox that has your real life name associated with it.

Not to be paranoid, but you need to separate baiting from your real life personality in order to bait safe.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:46 am

Sam I Am wrote:

... Does anyone know the source and cost (to the scammer) of these Money orders and Travellers checks?

Rumor has it that most of those bogus checks are printed in Romania. Depending on the quality of the check and the lad using them, they can cost the lad anywhere from US$5 to US$25 per check.

Getting them to send you lots of them costs them money and is therfore a good thing. Thumbs up

But do so safely!

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:49 am

I forward the "job offers" to my scam bait yahoo acct. and remove the traces of my real email address. Thanks for your concern ....

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:51 am

I have gotten a lot send to my box as well - some checks look very good others dont -

but NONE of the money orders i have received have had the water mark or heat sensitive part working

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:51 am

Sounds like you've got a good system going there Sam. We often seem a little paranoid at times here, but it's just because we're concerned.

@ KD: sounds like cheque scamming is quite a costly occupation then, they'd need to hti the jackpot reasonably frequently to make it worth their while.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:52 am

Josh wrote:

... they'd need to hti the jackpot reasonably frequently ...

They do.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:58 am

Well it is probably the most believable scam out there, as you do actually see the money in your account (although only briefly).

I'm really quite amazed that the banks don't end up legally responsible in these scams. They're the ones who have cleared the cheque and made you believe that it was real... yet you're the one who carries all the legal responsibility.

I'm sure someone will explain this more fully, it just seems to me as though the banks should be a lot more careful when it comes to clearing cheques of this kind.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:17 am

^^^When you open a new account it's all explained in the small print that noone ever reads.

When you deposit a check into your account, your bank provides "provisional funding". Sometimes it's right away, sometimes it's after a few days. What you have to be cautious of is the word "cleared" because it isn't truly cleared. The check is sent to the issuing bank and then found to be fraudulant. This can take weeks or even months. Once the issuing bank refuses to pay, thats when your bank comes back to hold you responsible.

If the bank waited to provide funding to it's customers, noone would ever take a check for anything because they wouldn't get paid for weeks.

Always,
B. A. Ware

EDIT: Stell lernin to speel

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:55 am

When I started out, I took a citi check to a branch and asked if they could authenticate it since it was a citi branch. No help. After a 5 min back and forth, the girl took it to the back, made a call, made a photo copy of it, and kept the fake original and gave me the photo copy. I'm sure i was photographed. Same thing at my b of a branch, "If you want to know ahead of time, fill this out, wait 3 weeks, pay this fee, and we'll let you know."
The bank has no interest in protecting mules.
My wife had her purse stolen. The thief wrote a check out to cash in PENCIL, printed my name for a sig. and took all the cash in the account with NO ID.
This was 20 years ago, so I hope security has improved. The cops caught the guy in a stolen car with his girl friend that had my wife's ID. I told the cops I wanted him arrested for fraud, forgery, ect..., They said the bank would have to press charges. Went to the bank...NOPE, not big enough. Man did I have it out with that manager. "You are telling me that I could steal a check, forge a sig, cash it for under $1,000.00 and get away with it?"
I don't use that bank, changed that day.

It's only the honest folks that get hurt.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:28 am

Josh wrote:

I'm really quite amazed that the banks don't end up legally responsible in these scams. They're the ones who have cleared the cheque and made you believe that it was real.

No chance. Part of the fine print that BA mentioned is where you agree to take responsibility for any cheque that you deposit into the account. As far as the law is concerned, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that any cheque deposited is good.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:31 am

I guess it's a slightly counter-intuitive aspect of the law that clearly scammers take fully advantage of.

I suppose the alternative of your money not being available until the cheque has been approved 100% might mean that some cheques would take weeks or months to "clear" and that's why the system doesn't work that way?

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:37 am

That said, if you cash it in good faith with reasonable belief that it was genuine, and no reasonable circumstances to suggest otherwise, then you've done nothing wrong (in this country anyway).

But the system would never work if the banks were responsible for it. As mentioned, the banks front you the money when you deposit a cheque, the 3 days clearing is simply a processing delay, not a real clearance. The money in your account is actually on loan from the bank.

So, basically, if you're not sure, take it to your bank or local LEA and ask them about it. If they tell you it seems fine then you can bank it and rely on their statement. Doesn't mean you will see the money at the end of the day, but you won't be held accountable for cheque fraud.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:24 am

@Sam I Am - Does the name "Donald Anderson" mean anything to you? He's a prolific job/check (usually Amex) scammer and we are gathering as much info as we can about him.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:50 am

Red wrote:

So, basically, if you're not sure, take it to your bank or local LEA and ask them about it. If they tell you it seems fine then you can bank it and rely on their statement.

Not necessarily. The only way that works is if you get a written statement that the cheque is good, which they will most likely not give you. They might (and its a big might) give you a written statement that you presented the cheque for their inspection and it did not appear to be fraudulent, but that will be the max. Such an action will most likely keep you from being prosecuted for cheque fraud, but will not prevent the bank from coming after you for the full amount of the cheque if it comes back fake or stolen.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:18 am

Sorry, you're 100% right, I should have clarified that.

From a purely legal standpoint, however, if you rely on information from an LEA or bank regarding a cheque to your detriment, you will not be held accountable criminally (but as slayerfaith said, your bank may come after you for the amount).

You can only commit cheque fraud if you do so knowingly (there must be intention), or do so recklessly (ie you should have known, this will hinge on the facts of the particular case).

If in doubt, ask your bank, if they tell you to deposit it make sure you get a written statement, the name of the person who said it was ok etcetera and follow these guidelines:

Qld Police wrote:

When you receive a cheque

Keep cheques you receive safe and bank them promptly. You can also make a request to the bank for special clearance.

Avoid cheque fraud by making sure:

* cheques payable to a third party are properly endorsed by the payee
* cheque endorsement is in order
* there are no alterations to the cheque
* the cheque has the correct date
* figures match the writing
* signature is okay
* the company issuing the cheque confirms it's validity

If you do all of the above, in this country, you should be right. The simple fact is that people bank cheques every single day of the week. If you take the necessary precautions you will severely limit your chances of being a victim of cheque fraud.

Thanks for clarifying that SF. Very Happy

EDIT: Also note what Gnasher says below. Although I am more referring to normal business dealings. Also, always use common sense!

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:13 am

Red wrote:

If you take the necessary precautions you will severely limit your chances of being a victim of cheque fraud.

And the chances will be reduced to Zero if you ignore all these Easy Money schemes via emails from total strangers. Unfortunately these cheque scammers are very successful because (a) everything appears to go according to plan at first and victims think they really have 'earned' some quick and easy money - until the bank comes after them for a full refund, and (b) people don't understand the fine print of how the banking system actually works.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 59

For a good explanation on how checks work, read "Catch Me If You Can" by Frank Abignale. It was the inspiration for the movie, and is really a fascinating read on the life of a check forger and con artist. It has a really good explanation of how the checking system works, and why it can take a while for a check to truly clear.

Master Baiter Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 139

Regarding why banks make the funds available: it's not only a convenience, it's U.S. Federal law that the bank must make the funds from a check available to the account holder within 1-5 business days, no matter how long it takes for the check to actually clear the issuing bank.

Given this requirement, if banks were also not allowed to hold account holders liable for the check amount, the entire idea of a check would cease to exist because no bank would bother with them; it would be too large of a liability. In the case of a hot check, someone has to lose, and the bank will do everything in their power to ensure it isn't them. Either the person writing the check (in cases where that person can be found and detained) or the person depositing the check are liable for its full amount.

Little secret, touched on by sellingrich but which holds in the general case: banks don't give two shits about you.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:07 pm

I am amazed at the drastic quality of fakes I have seen in my baiting - some that would pass by quite a few experts to ones wouldn't fool Ray Charles.

But seems the Amex dont come froma specific place - sometimes from the US (all over) Canada, UK and direct from Africa.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:21 pm

If a fake or counterfeit cheque is charged to your account you will never have to pay it. You may be asked to show or prove it's a fake, but you will not have to pay up if you didn't issue it, and didn't cause its issuance by negligence and haven't caused the situation to be exascerbated by delaying reporting it when you could have done so earlier. They can be returned as fakes any time potentially.

That being the case, there are only two parties left to pay up (the scammer won't) - you or your bank, and who do you think is going to lose that fight ?

You accepted a cheque from a total stranger for some job involving collecting money and receiving a 10% fee - case lost.

Light a match near petrol, you'll get burned. Play recklessly with the money on your account and you'll lose it. A lot of people find this out the hard way I'm afraid.

Lots of Money Orders and travellers checks	View next topic View previous topic