need advice from the pros, please

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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:06 am

Jervis Tetch wrote:

Ghost^^^--re: lads visiting you: ...
I can only surmise that you have not seen the ABC/20-20 and Dateline NBC undercover ops wherein lad 'bag-men' indeed showed up in the US and UK, respectively.

You say 'let's not scare sybille'...Amen on that. But I add IMHO that newb baiters need to know what they are possibly up against. With no sugar-coating on it.

Yes, I saw the shows. What I said still stands. I�m not saying you can never get a lad to meet you. I am saying a lad will never show up at your house because you refused to reply to his Email.

The TV show was not about a victim that received stolen checks then had the scammer show up at their door. So I don�t see where you are getting at Confused

Sybille was a victim NOT a baiter, so once she was comforted as far as the scammers not show up at her house, I just didn�t see a reason to re-scare her.

Jervis Tetch wrote:

the Samaritan is arrested for 'possession' of drugs/ forged docs. You got it on ya, that's good enough for some LEOs

Sorry couldn't help but to add: �Honest officer I found those drugs and was on my way to turn them in when you stopped me�. Probably never heard before by LEO I�m sure.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:53 am

I thought I would write this to hopefully put to bed the fear that Jervis Tetch might have caused regarding tuning in drugs/forged checks.

Jervis Tetch wrote:

Now if you find a package of heroin in the street in Malaysia, China, Singapore, Thailand, et. al. and bring it in to the 'authorities' as a good citizen just doing your civic duty--write me from prison/death-row and let me know how things are working out on that. Mexico has no death penalty, so you will do 20yrs at least. You'd be lucky there. LOL.

Innocent until proven guilty is NOT a w-w concept...Bringing cops evidence of a crime can often find you behind bars too. Especially if they believe major cash can be extorted from your beloved family. Try entering Nairaland w/o an official visa, which you were told you would not need..You're in serious trouble just on that.

This will not happen in the USA but I cannot speak for the other countries you mentioned but I will speak from personal experience. People report crimes every day, some even have evidence. Unless they are falsely reporting a crime they will not be arrested. Also, people have turned in actually drugs and drug paraphernalia before and were not arrested. This really is not that uncommon but usually it was found in their kids/brother/sister/etc room or whatever.

If you walk into a police station and say �I found what appears to be drugs in the bushes near the park. I didn�t want a kid to find them so I thought I would bring them in�. You�re just not going to be arrested. However if you are stopped and drugs are found on you, the �I found it story� seems less plausible. Same would apply for possession of forged checks except knowledge and intent to defraud would also have to be present.

I can see you don�t like/trust cops and that is fine, a lot of people don�t. It�s a job not a popularity contest. I happen to like cops, as matter of fact I sleep with on every night. Her feet are cold and she snores but I love her anyway Laughing

If it helps here is a true story that I will keep short.

A person was arrested for an outstanding traffic warrant. At the jail a search of his jacket showed he was in possession of 35 pieces of individually wrapped 20 dollar piece of rock cocaine. His excuse/lie: It wasn�t his jacket. He found it and decided to wear it because it was cold out. He was additionally charged with possession with intent to distribute.

The DA�s office chose not to file charges as the ADA found his story plausible since he was never arrested or contacted by LEO before wearing the same jacket. A month later he was arrested for selling rock cocaine to an UC cop. This time charges were filed.

JT I know you must have had negative contact with LEO in other counties in the past and I am sorry for that. But not all cops are crooked. I never was nor my wife. Come to think about it none of the hundreds of cops I know are even remotely crooked. However, some of them used to pay a quarter for a cup of coffee, if that counts but the price was made up by putting it in the tip jar.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:22 am

Jervis, I know you're trying to be helpful, but you are not succeeding. Talk of drugs arrests in the Far East and the like are irrelevant and scary. Sad

sybille, the truth is that you are perfectly safe going to either your bank or the police. Paying fake checks into your bank account is a good sign you're being dishonest. Handing them in to the police is exactly the opposite. Especially if you don't open the package before you go. Take it unopened, and also take the emails that the lad sent, and tell the police the truth. That you think there are fake checks in the package, and that you have been a little bit daft in allowing yourself to get to the point of receiving the package, but smart enough to realise now that it could be dodgy. There is virtually zero chance of it going any further, and nobody will turn up at your house.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:29 pm

Just to echo what others have said.

The US is not a third world hell hole where you need to be scared of the cops. You are the victim, not a criminal as you have done absolutely nothing with the checks.

As for a midnight visit from the lad. They are too busy looking for new victims. The spam you are getting is being sent to quite a few others in the hope that they will cave in and send the cash.

You are a victim not a baiter. Victims wise up. Part of the course of fraud. Baiters can cause an aweful lot of trouble. Which is why we have the bait safe guidelines here. If you had caused the scammer to spend thousands of dollars, then I would say be a bit worried. But you haven't.

Don't worry about the lads. There is no need to worry about LEO as you have done nothing with the checks. There are some LEOs on this board and they will say you have nothing to worry about.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:17 pm

Sybille, well done for spotting this scam before it went too far.

I hope you've been reassured by our members that you have nothing to fear from the scammers (they only want your money, and lose interest when they know they won't get it), and nothing to fear from law enforcement (you did nothing wrong, since you didn't try to cash the checks).

You might also want to visit www.scamvictimsunited.com where you can compare notes with other internet scam victims.

crossfire wrote:

sybille wrote:

how do you PM?

look below the members avatar and to the right a little, you will see
a PM button their, click on it and and it will open a pm window, add
subject and text and click summit.

You also need to watch for replies Smile

In the banner at the top of the page, you will be "Messages (new)" if you have new PMs (Private Messages) waiting to be read and just "Messages" if you don't

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:35 pm

Sybille, I work at a bank and I can assure you that nobody was ever arrested for handing in a fake cheque (without cashing it of course). The cheques are collected and destroyed. If you do not feel at ease having them in the house and you do not want to go to your local police station or your bank, shredding them is another good solution Very Happy

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:06 pm

I agree with persephone's suggestion.

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:42 pm

Sybille:

I would agree with most of what is posted in this thready. If you are not in a Western European country or the US/Canada, burn the checks and the box they came in, and don't go to the authorities.

If you are in the US/Western Europe.... take the unopened box to the postal authorities and tell them everything. Print out all the e-mails you have, with full headers and take them with you. Also do not delete them from your e-mail, the authorities may want to see them. There may be little that the authorities can do, or you might end up with an arrest of a bad guy to your credit!

If it makes you nervous to take them to the authorities because you might get accused of a crime, burn them and burn the envelope/box they came in.

Regardless of what you do above HAVE NO FURTHER CONTACT with the lads. Do not even bother to reply to their e-mail that you know it is a scam. Just go silent.

Feel free to PM me if you want further questions answered.

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:48 am

OK folks,

Perseph got it right--the best solution is to shred fake checks, no argument there.

As for this instance not likely to happen here in the USA--just remember that you can be handcuffed, arrested, and taken to jail in Minnesota just for hanging sexy lingerie laundry on a clothes-line that can be viewed by the public...Other such ridiculous ordinances still exist on the books. In some states, you can go to jail for kissing a horse, frightening a fish, etc. And '5-counts of frequency' is also a popular probable cause.

You could go to jail in Iowa for kissing someone for more than 5 minutes, which begs the question of who is holding the stop-watch on it? Sounds hilarious, but could find you in jail, if the cops want to charge you on it. And it's on the Iowa Statutes to this day. Have passion--go to the hoosegow.

If you blithely think that people can't have been arrested in the USA on this menial crap--think again. See www.dumblaws.com

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:18 am

Can I please mention something to think about before shredding the cheques? Some purport to be drawn on real individual or company bank accounts, and the person or company may not know. And some may be good evidence in possible criminal proceedings against the person drawing up the cheques. No cheques should be shredded until at the very least, the bank account owner has been alerted in some way, whether that is by handing the info over to an experienced person (start with any of the mods here) or LEO. I know it's the route with the least hassle for the person receiving the cheque but it is not necessarily the right thing to do.

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:55 am

^^^ ditto the things Eight has said. It is certainly worth mentioning.

There is more than one way for a Lad to obtain his cheque supply. He doesn't always need a fake cheque printer.

"Lost and Stolen" cheques and cheque books are the obvious ones. But cheques obtained from other Victims as part of another scam are frequent, also genuine [misappropriated] cheques with alterations

Do you know if the last four cheques in your cheque book are still there ?

Master Baiter Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 100

hi everyone
once again, thank you all for your replies. your support and advice have been so helpful. i've spent my days familiarizing myself with the 419eaters--VERY impressive...VERY intriguing
sybille

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:31 pm

You should consider calling the police and reporting the package and the circumstances under which it reached you. It sounds like the scammer wanted you to be a check mule. That police report *could* be the last link in the chain they are waiting for to bust a scam (as has happened recently in the US).

I would NOT recommend that baiters try to set things up for this to happen, etc. but in this case you are a REAL victim reporting a REAL crime. You haven't done anything that YOU could get in trouble for at this point (and frankly, I'd be scared to NOT report it because it could be said later that you cooperated with the scammer if you don't).

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:55 pm

~sybille,

Glad to be of assistance sybille Smile

Now you have learned a bit more about these internet scams go and tell your family, friends and colleagues all about them so they don't risk becoming victims too. The more people out there who understand about 419 scams, the less $$$$ for the lads.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:10 pm

hi sybille--

In any event, be safe in all you do on this. I seem to recall that the name 'sybil' means 'seeress'.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:00 pm

Jervis Tetch wrote:

If you blithely think that people can't have been arrested in the USA on this menial crap--think again. See www.dumblaws.com

Sybille, you are not at risk from the police. Don't pay heed to Jervis' rants on foreign police and Iowa's anti-kissing laws. They don't apply to your situation. It is just completely unhelpful scaremongering. "Dumb" laws in certain US states about kissing and willingly handing in fraudlent cheques that were sent to you are not the same thing. Not at all. You cannot be arrested for handing something into the police in the United States of America. Drugs, guns, fradulent cheques. It doesn't matter, there will be no problems.

The package came from Miami, therefore you should go out of your way to file a police report. It could lead to state side scammers behind bars and save people who didn't have your foresight. Take the package, prefabley unopened(to prevent contamination of any possible evidence), and print outs of all the e-mails, prefabley with full headers to your nearest police stattion as soon as you have a chance.

Just to repeat to drive the point home: You will not be arrested by the police. You have nothing to fear from the police. You should file a report and submit as much evidence as you can.

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:41 am

Uncle Ned^

Your entitled opinion, have to respect that... No dogfight intended here.

IMHO you're under 50, maybe even under 40. Live long enough here in the States and you'll eventually see it all.

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:54 am

*sigh* Sybille you have nothing to worry about as I and many other�s have told you. The bottom line is you are a real victim reporting a real crime. You will not be arrested for this.

The Police DO NOT arrest people for reporting crimes. That is just not done. Regardless of what Jervis Tetch has said. What he has listed is archaic. Like the city in Ca that allows man to hit a woman with a belt as long as it was not X amount of inches thick. I know this has nothing to do with fake checks but I am trying to show the laws listed are not used. In Ca domestic violence is taken very serious. You cannot hit your wife with a belt in Ca. It�s a felony (273.5a PC) and state law supersedes any city municipal section.

Jervis I don�t understand why you insist on scaring Sybille. Sybille I was a cop for 15 years my wife is still a cop (17 years) I assure you. You won�t be arrests for reporting a crime.

Sybille, if you want I can give you my wife�s work Email or phone and you can discuss it with her if you want. She was an ordinary beat cop that was promoted to sex crimes. Now she works as a DA�s investigator specializing in dealing with victims of sex and violent crimes.

Jervis if you�re going to list archaic crimes (infractions) find a fake check one that has relevance here. (Don�t really) What you found is mostly code violations and city muni sections. Police don�t really use this because they are a police officer for the state of ***employed by the city of***. Since they are state officers they enforce state laws. The main exception would be parking and curfew violations. I�m not saying police don�t enforce their city�s muni sections but not the archaic ones.

Sybille PM me if you want to take to my wife. She already said she would.

I might note that you don�t seem scared at all by Jervis� statements but if you are just let me know.

@Jervis Tetch I do know you mean well and are just trying to help but really you might be doing the opposite. You really seem like a nice person, you just took the wrong approach this time.

Edit:I don�t know what state you are from but you can look at Ca forgeries laws. The laws very from state to state but for the most part they are consistence. For forged and fake checks in Ca we used 470 PC but other forgeries continue to 483a PC NSF checks are 476a PC for example.

With fake or forged checks knowledge AND intent to defrauded must be present for the crime to be complete. All elements of the crime must be present (the body of the crime) to make an arrest. I doubt you intended to defraud since your were a victim. So the body of the crime is incomplete. You cannot be arrested.

The check itself would be the instrumentality of the crime. The ill gotten gains if he had succeeded would be the fruit of the crime. But these are thing that will be used against the mugu, not you. These are just extras. All that is need is the body of the crime to be complete. And yes, the lads that make that check knowing it was forged or fake with the intent to defraud. The body of the crime is complete.

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:32 am

^^^
I hate to make "me, too" posts, but Ghost is dead on.

@Jervis- Please understand that scam victims are not baiters. They need clear, accurate and (most importantly) relevant information about their situation. I appreciate that you were trying to be helpful, but posting about TV shows, 3rd world countries, and archaic statutes simply clouded the issue- and probably upset someone who came here looking for assistance as well.

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:57 am

editd: thanks for the back up SF

I means a loy coming from you Very Happy

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:45 am

sybille was the OP here and, following a description of his or her problem, stated 'Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated'.

Let us stick to that and not start an off-topic scrap.

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