SERIOUS Q - Has 419eater lost it's standard of decorum?

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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:25 pm

I am annoyed and I am rasing this topic for discussion as I know that I am not the only one feeling this way. So here goes...

Why have so many posts lately, particularly in General, seem to have been made simply to satisfy some bizarre need to share blatent innuendo, smutty remarks and re-live ones first stolen peak at a softporn magazine?

Do we no longer have any pride in the high standards that this forum consistently maintained, without the need for mod intervention, in the past?

Are we seeking some kind of approval from hormonally overactive peers?

Are we really that immature?

These pages are open for all who have access to a computer to view, not just members, regardless of age. Perhaps some of the posters may care to stop and think how they would explain their posts to children who may ask "What does that mean daddy?" Are their postings adding something of value to these pages? Yes, the internet is all about free speech and freedom of expression yadda yadda PC. But I'm not talking about the harmless diversions and leg pulling that goes on, I'm talking about smut being posted for the sake of smut. Stuff that should be posted in more appropriate forums, not here.

What is going on people? Am I being overly sensitive?

Your thoughts please....

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:45 pm

I am partially with you on this, although as a relative newbie I don't really know the "heights" from which things seem to have fallen in recent times.

There seems to be a bit of confusion - even among the guidelines - for what the General Chat forum is for, and perhaps that is contributing to the slightly messy situation that has been developing in here recently. The description of the General Chat forum (as visible on the index) states that it's for:

Quote:

"Chat about anything non scam related here."

I guess this encourages threads such as my Harry Potter one and Eliza's Psychics thread.

Yet at the same time the Sticky outlining Guidelines/Policy for the forum states:

Quote:

"...although this is GENERAL CHAT we are still in a forum which deals with 'scam baiting' not how to paint my treehouse, or nailing picture racks or something like that. I don't mind the odd 'strange topic' it gives me a laugh sometimes, but otherwise I don't believe it is entirely necessary. Every topic in here takes baiters from baiting, and thus they don't do what they should be doing, baiting the scumbag scammers. TRY to STAY ON TOPIC. Remember to think about Baiting more than Mums Cookie recipes..."

To me this is a little confusing, that on the one hand it's made clear that this part of the forum should be a "scam-baiting free area" but on the other hand the sticky advises us to stay on topic (that topic being scam-baiting). It doesn't explain some of the behaviour in the PWT lately, but at the same time the posting of barely clothed people wasn't really frowned upon until only just before that thread became locked.

It's only my opinion, but perhaps there does need to be a little more discussion regarding what this General Chat part of the forum is actually for. Personally I think we've got masses of space in the other forums to discuss each and every aspect of baiting, and I agree with the index that this place should be a largely baiting free area. Discussions about favourite movies, music, what we got up to on the weekend, what we think of psychics and so on should be encouraged here - so they don't creep into the more serious other parts of the forum. As far as I know there's an unwritten rule to avoid talking about politics and religion - because they're just too inflammatory, but apart from that most other (non-discriminatory) topics seem OK for this place.

Regarding what kind of age-group we should be making this forum safe for, I don't necessarily think that we should have to limit ourselves to what's OK for a 10 year old to read. If we're talking quite legitimately about how to get our lads to tattoo stuff on themselves, then I wouldn't think of that as particularly suitable for a 10 year old. I think the system generally works OK in this regard, and something that stands out as a bit "woah" is obvious enough for the Mods to clean it up pretty quickly.

Just my 2c. Feel free to discuss/disagree.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:48 pm

It's a delicate balance and due to peer pressure the balance sometimes swings too far out. It�s difficult to compete with the experienced baiters, their stories and trophies; so the balance is found in another area. Rolling Eyes

It is very human, but not desirable in a public forum with a completely different objective. It has happened and will happen again, all we can do is ask for some attention and try to nip it in the bud.
A topic from April this year http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108320 cured it for a while, but now we�re back and need some guiding/common sense.

To answer your question,

Quote:

Am I being overly sensitive?

No you�re not, I�ll try to help and bend things back to normal.
Thanks for the reminder Thumbs up

Fixed your coding to make the link work, Bill. TS

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:54 pm

yrubraj wrote:

Discussions about favourite movies, music, what we got up to on the weekend, what we think of psychics and so on should be encouraged here - so they don't creep into the more serious other parts of the forum.

Exactly. There are other forums who those wishing to get their kicks from semi-naked women or tales of emmissions on the floor (nothing personal HS, just an example).

** SUSPENDED ** Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 1267

I agree

.

I finally got sick of the PWT and some of the dumb threads that have been made in recent times.

Kill the PWT, and get us back to the pre-pwt days Smile

.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:55 pm

I have to agree with Callum.

There was a time when the Postwhore Thread was a lot of fun and created a lot of comraderie amongst baiters. It was also a "fun" place for new members to break the ice and meet other members. It then became a kak hole with nothing of consequence, other than sexual inuendos and "inside jokes".

What I object to and find disrespectful, is how often a user's topic becomes yet another postwhore thread. Other times it's completely derailed.

It would be nice if we could be a little more respectful to each other. I hate locking threads...my pet peeve, yet I have found myself often wanting to grab that key in the past few months. Crying or Very sad

yrubraj wrote:

Discussions about favourite movies, music, what we got up to on the weekend, what we think of psychics and so on should be encouraged here - so they don't creep into the more serious other parts of the forum.

I agree. That's why we have a general chat forum. To talk about things other than baiting, which is a nice break from baiting. Wink

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:57 pm

I think the "need" for a PWT is likely to be far less if there are a number of good General Chat threads going on at the same time. If someone (like me Embarassed

) feels an insatiable urge to post lots then they'll have interesting stuff to post about and we'll end up with interesting threads like the psychic one, which ended up interestingly philosophical.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:05 pm

Smut
Give me smut and nothing but
A dirty novel I can't shut
If it's uncut
And unsubt-
tle

Pornographic pictures I adore
Indecent magazines galore
I like them more
If they're hard core

Smut is great Laughing

but THIS is not the place. It should be possible to have reasoned conversations without being offensive. I come here to findout about scambaiting which is an adult activity activity and by the nature of what we do, often involves exposure to - and use of - adult language (in context) but this does not mean I want to read posts which are plainly just offensive.

I'm off to search out my Tom Lehrer albums...

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:26 pm

JackintheBox wrote:

... Smut is great ...

To each his own.

JackintheBox wrote:

... but THIS is not the place. ...

Right. If there is any place for it at all besides the toilet, it's certainly not Eater.

I'm not opposed to adult banter, but there are many ways of saying something. Is it really necessary to choose the cheapest gutter expression?

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:29 pm

I agree with callum that we should hold ourselves to a high standard but as yrubraj said I'm new also so I'm not sure how things once were.

It seems that 419eater is frequently mentioned in newspaper articles which will attract lots of curious visitors. What type of impression do we want them to have when they stop by? IMHO they should see the fun we have and the good we do but not the "locker room" chat you can find elsewhere.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:33 pm

^^^ Well put.

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:59 pm

I don't visit the PWT much any more. It just rings hollow, no substance, jusk a lot of "Kak", as you say. Why bother?

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:04 am

It's about time this topic was raised. And as annoyed as I am about the issue at the moment, I don't know if I can express my feelings on the topic without pissing someone off. So, I will just leave it at this:

I agree with Callum 100%.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:07 am

I frequently felt uncomfortable the very few times I popped into that thread. To be hoest, I'd agree with Callum. 419eater is better than this and there is another site that springs to mind that engages in the kak and look at what that degenerated into.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:20 am

I agree!

Thanks callum for bringing it up. Smile

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:20 am

I'm with those who sometimes find the testosterone levels slightly intimidating. I know we can stay away from PWT where it tends to occur (which I do) but it doesn't give a very good impression. I could also cite the 'cleavage' avatars Rolling Eyes

Perhaps it's also worth reminding ourselves that there a quite a few female posters here, some of whom don't always declare their gender Wink

, who don't appreciate the smut and not-very-subtle/funny innuendo either. However, I don't have any problem at all with adult conversation generally (as opposed to 'adult' conversation) and I'd hate to see prudishness creeping in so I guess yet again it's down to the Mods to decide what is and isn't acceptable.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:28 am

^^ I think the system works OK at the moment. Perhaps in the PWT people weren't aware until the last minute that the cleavage pics etc. were offensive to some - and it must be said that it was encouraged by some of the more 'senior' members in their recollection of the 'old PWT'.

Baiting Guru Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 3551

I think the bar here has been raised by affiliation with the new site. The overall tone here will reflect on scamwarners.

I tremendously dislike the cleavage avatars and I don't think they create the best image. Just my opinion.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:37 am

Gnasher wrote:

I'd hate to see prudishness creeping in so I guess yet again it's down to the Mods to decide what is and isn't acceptable.

I respectfully disagree. We should be acting maturely and leaving the mod's free to help out the newer members, keep things well organised, and kill the trolls.

We shouldn't need to be told what is generally viewed as proper and decent by the majority of society (my parlimentary representitives are doing quite enough of that already thank you very much). If we aren't mature to sort that one out for ourselves, then perhaps we should take our avatars somewhere that a lack of pride and sense of community values is acceptable.

That's what eater is people, a community in which we took a stake in by joining. A community we should be proud of.

Baiting Guru Joined: 31 Jan 2007 Posts: 12237

Gnasher wrote:

I could also cite the 'cleavage' avatars Rolling Eyes

Perhaps it's also worth reminding ourselves that there a quite a few female posters here, some of whom don't always declare their gender

Guilty... Bye Monica. (*Inserts new avatar)

I am sure there is a line that can be crossed, and perhaps we are getting close enough to it that the proletariat has taken notice, and makes mention of it. Every online group needs a good "jerk of the chain" every now and then. This seems to be a good wakeup call to the benefit of the Eater as an online community.

But I will still miss Monica's avatar. Crying or Very sad

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:48 am

^^ I agree really. A good stage to bring up this topic and make us all go "hey... is this forum headed where we want it to go?" If the answer is no, which is what it does seem to be from quite a few people, then we're now all aware that perhaps a little tweak is necessary.

I don't think hugely problematic things have gone on recently, just enough for us to think that things perhaps aren't what they should be, and to remedy them as a result.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:56 am

Gnasher wrote:

I could also cite the 'cleavage' avatars Rolling Eyes

Perhaps it's also worth reminding ourselves that there a quite a few female posters here, some of whom don't always declare their gender

Yes.. And you have no idea how often I was tempted to make my avatar a rock hard male buttox in a thong. But I didn't because that would have been childish.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:27 am

Hmmm surely this is the job of the mods, appealing to the social conscience of people who are comfortable with posting what is currently acceptable is rather moot.

I'm with Gnasher, prudishness on a site where, realistically, mature people can come and post with relative freedom would be a really unfortunate way to 'maintain the sanctity of the community'.

The mods clearly know what they are doing and have no doubt considered this. Rather than lament what once was (from a subjective view) create what you want. Don't avoid the PWT because it becomes full of kak, post in it and provide great material like you speak of existing before. If the PWT is full of people who 'want it to be the way it was' then it would be the way it was the others would slowly fade to black. Making overly cutesy posts can be just as Rolling Eyes

as overly suggestive ones, sometimes I see yet another kitten and I wonder if I've stumbled back into primary school and ankle bitters, often I ponder how longer before the new Eater logo is hello kitty.

That said, I don't mind it so much because it is mixed in with a whole lot of other cool stuff and is generally in good humour, I've personally posted pictures of women, pictures of weird people, pictures of animals and pictures of generally off the wall stuff.

I don't like telling people what they can and can't post because that is what makes a forum diverse and interesting. If there's a thread I don't like I can always start a new one about something I do like. I don't know what this place was like in the old days, but my impression is that as forums grow they become more diverse and unless you choose to impose draconian rule upon the posters material you simply have to learn to live with the fact that different people like different things.

I am not, in anyway, attacking anyone who has posted to the contrary, this is simply my view point and I have little doubts that I am in the minority. I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty for having Monica Bellucci as their avatar and nor should they be intimidated into avoiding a shirtless Fabio. Live and let live.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:44 am

yrubraj wrote:

There seems to be a bit of confusion - even among the guidelines - for what the General Chat forum is for

No really. General chat is general chat. What we (unfortunately) clamp down on is multiple threads about the exact same subject, inappropriate comments, religious and political debates and pointless threads about infected toe nails.

What people seem to forget that this forum is a privately owned public domain. What content is deemed unnecessary or inappropriate is removed. It's that simple.

Your confusing Callum's remarks and wanting to discuss something different. He is making the point of why is there so much potty humour.

yrubraj wrote:

It's only my opinion, but perhaps there does need to be a little more discussion regarding what this General Chat part of the forum is actually for.

Why? This forum has been active for over 4 years with a simple set of guidelines. We rely on peoples common sense and maturity to respect these guidelines. We don't need to spell everything out in black and white for every conceivable conversation or discussion that could possibly be posted here. That's impossible.

Callum has a valid gripe and his point is personal. I haven't read anything in the PWT in 2 months, so I can't make comment. Our job isn't to police anything. The mods are just a glorified ironing business. We're here to smooth things out.

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:58 am

Red, it's not censorship, or nannying by NN (some may wish to disagree for reason known only to themselves), that we need. Far from it.

Rather it's self-regulation due to a collective sense of value. As yrubraj pointed out in his last post in this thread, maybe it's just time to reflect on current trends and see whether or not our values are changing, and if so, are they changing for the better?

And yes, this thread was in a way an "appeal to the social conscience" of our members. I'm sure all of us have a one stage or other benefited from positive peer pressure in our lives. Being part of an online community shouldn't change that. If general concensus is that the tone of posting needs to improve a little, then it will. If however, concensus is that no improvement is neccessary, then that is how things will continue. Either way, whether or not individuals then feel a part of the community comes down to their personal attitude, desires, maturity whatever.

The community will decide what seems proper or not, and as individuals we still retain our freedom of choice. If at any stage any of us feel either uncomfortable or overly restricted, there is a handle on this side of the door too and we are free to leave. Myself included.

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