The post for discussing Psychics, Ghosts & Paranormal BS

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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:57 am

Gnasher wrote:

usually to vulnerable people who need guidance or reassurance in their lives.

Please no attacks on fellow forum members! Thank you!

Wink

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:03 am

There's no such thing as psychic power, your lady was using Mentalism.

Consider that science can now measure the trails left by particles so small they only exist for fractions of a second.
Any force that had the power to influence your or anyone else's life would need a large power source.
Where do these psychic powers live? and why can't we measure them?

Horoscopes are also a load of rubbish, the planets have better things to do than control our lives,
they are just very large blobs of mud spinning out of control though space, they don't care about you or me.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:10 am

I think it comes down to the fact that people will believe what they want to believe.

If you follow the work of James "The Amazing" Randi you'll know that all these so called "psychics" are a load of s*.

He has offered, for 40 years now, $1m to any one who can prove paranormal (supernatural) phenomenon in a controlled environment. He's the guy Uri Gellar hates and always sues for showing him to be a fraud.

What cold readers do is a brilliant art of performance and quick thinking, it's so so good, it's a shame they don't put their dramatic skills to a better purpose.

What others do is gather information. Anyone remember Peter Popoff? Well, he used to do the "I heal you in Jesus' name!" bit. He would know all this stuff that "God told him" about the people who came to his performances. Well... Randi took a shortwave radio into the studio and found out that via a wireless radio signal Popoff's wife was reading the "prayer cards" that guests were encouraged to fill out (eg, what are your prayers for God? who are you? etc ) and was telling him all the info over this radio signal. Very simple, quite smart, totally fake.

This lady either was tipped off by someone you know, or was a very good cold reader.

Personally, if I saw her again, I would invoke s.21A of the Crimes Act 1958 (here anyway) and have her arrested for stalking and get an apprehension of violence order imposed against her (restraining order).

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:26 am

For Eliza

Screw the psychics, damn the advice-givers (including me!!) and to hell with everybody else. Don't get intimidated by anyone. Just go with your heart. Everything else is just furniture on the wall.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:38 am

Told you baiters are cynics Wink

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

Personally, I think it's nonsense.

I'm not discounting that there may be psychics out there, but I'd bet a box of cookies that the real ones learn to keep their mouths shut at a very early age.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

Never has there been one, objectively verifiable, psychic.

It is really not that complicated.

The analogy is apt: has there been a real 419 story?

--J.D.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:58 am

Is there a rational explanation for psychic powers? None that I know of.

Is there any reputable evidence for psychic powers? None whatsoever.

The fact that people talk about it and some people actually believe it does not make it true, any more than astrology or homeopathy. In the absence of a plausible explanation or credible evidence, I recommend treating it the same as any other irrational belief.

419Eater Admin Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 7469

Doctor X wrote:

I have to repeat the observation of Penn Jillette--where where the psychics on September 10th.?

I remember that quote, and agree wholeheartedly with the "psychics are lunatics" lobby.

Get over to randi.org for some great reading Smile

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:00 am

I think we tend to approach psychics and the like in the wrong way. We immediately think they have some strange power because we can't logically figure out what they've managed.

How about if we approach it from another perspective: if psychics are true then what are we actually saying? This person can literally read our minds, delve into our thoughts and so on? Trying to find a logical way of justifying that psychics are true, rather than just immediately assuming they are because its difficult to think of how they could have known that otherwise, is probably going to be beneficial.

It's like magicians, no matter how good they are there's still no such thing as magic, they're just really really good at what they do (unless you think Harry Potter's real). I watch Derren Brown and while I'm amazed by him, it also drives me insane because I want to know how he does this kind of thing. These people are REALLY GOOD at what they do, but no magicians.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:15 am

My tuppence worth, I once went to a seminar where this magican guy gave a show. He was bloody incredible and read peoples minds right there on the stage, 6 feet from me. It was amazing, best thing I have ever seen.

In the bar afterwards he told me how he does it (without giving away too many of his secrets), and it ain't magic, or mind reading... He was also a brilliant pick pocket. Respect to the Man of Steal!

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

Just like scam victims do not believe they can be scammed--and scammers do not conceive of being baited--so do the victims of "psychics."

They are not playing on a level field.

--J.D.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:32 am

I think that's what I was trying to say earlier Dr X. Change your thinking into "how is it logically possible for them to be a psychic" rather than "how is it logically possible for them to know this without being psychic" and you'll end up being able to analyse the situation much better.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

^^^^^Some things are not mysterious.

How they do things is known.

--J.D.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:50 am

A bloody good idea of how to read people, stock phrases and a lot of balls. Nothing special and it's something an aweful lot of people can be trained to do.

As for the other matter. If you are conflicted about then that isn't a good sign. The conflict reflects the fact that you yourself are uncertain if it's a wise move. I think that attempts at reconciliations with an exs ends up reminding you why you broke up with the bugger in the first place. They are ex's for a reason.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:10 pm

Before you go, because you will go, watch this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=22W_jS9Az7o

I'll throw in my two cents. They have there methods that they use on everyone. So, maybe they are wrong on 9 out of 10 people. If they find one that believes, there ya go. It is like an ASEM. You send lots out. Most don't work. But the ones that do... Laughing

Also, let me show you my psychic powers. She probably said something along the lines of "You are facing a big decision concerning a lover or an ex-lover. This will be life changing. You are contemplating moving in with him. You are contemplating job changes as well. You have had problems with this man before and you don't know if it is the right decision." Generic. Trust me, they are trained and they can read you better than you might think. This is what they do for a living.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:17 pm

Eliza,

Your ex/current beau's family are apparently dead-set against a reunion. Would it be beneath then to hire a private dick to ensure this happens?

There are an awful lot of private investigators and out-of-work actors who would jump at the chance to earn a fee in deceiving you this way.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:23 pm

Genuine lotteries, or gambling of any sort would not exist if these people could really read the future.
Fakirs always seem to have some implausible answer ready as to why they can't predict the out come. Why does anyone take them seriously? Rolling Eyes

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

^^^^Oh . . . but they . . . like . . . are not in it for making money.

If you make a nice donation, they will explain it too you.

A good debunking of a "famous" psychic is:

Stop Sylvia Brown(e)

Meanwhile, consider well Mark Klaas' assessment of the various "psychic detectives":

Quote:

Psychic Detectives are the vanguard of a second wave of predators that also includes tabloid journalists, cheesy defense lawyers and photo-op politicians. They use tabloid newspapers and talk shows to boast about their accomplishments and predict success. They materialize whenever children are kidnapped and circle the cases like vultures on a fresh carcass.

They scan the media for the haunting eyes of desperate parents willing to do anything to recover their children and then they show up on your doorstep, literally or figuratively, to make the pitch. They claim to be on the cutting edge of communications, able to predict future events and reach into heaven and hell with their mind. They hold your hand, massage your psyche and convince you that the only thing separating you from their extraordinary gift is your money. However, some simply require airfare and living expenses, what we call a vacation. They seem to answer the prayer that ends the nightmare, but only if you can afford the ticket.

Psychic Detectives

--J.D.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:39 pm

Try not to make eye contact. These people could be unscrupulous hypnotists using their talent to do despicable things. My girlfriend was going to open her car door to a stranger when eye contact was broken. She quickly realized what she was doing, kept the door locked, and sped off.
My dad taught me how to avoid hypnosis. Most importantly, AVOID EYE CONTACT. If someone tells you your energy is negative and you believe him, you are on your way to be taken for a ride or worse.
Have a positive mental attitude (strong mindedness), so when someone tells you you are full of negative energy, just think, "No, I'm not!" And you will realize an attempt was made against your person. Be and remain alert!
FDL

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:08 pm

jojobean wrote:

...You are facing a big decision concerning a lover or an ex-lover. This will be life changing. You are contemplating moving in with him. You are contemplating job changes as well. You have had problems with this man before and you don't know if it is the right decision." Generic. Trust me, they are trained and they can read you better than you might think. This is what they do for a living.

Probably right. Say this to ten 20-30 year old women walking in NYC (or anywhere) with a serious look on their faces, and you'll probably get at eight who will pay you to tell them more. Just a guess.

I don't believe in anything magical, but I do believe people can be incredibly intuitive. Some more than others.

Having said that, my spouse had a dream about planes crashing into buildings a week before 9/11. I know this first hand, we talked about it on the morning of the dream. Coincidence? Probably, but it gave me pause.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:30 pm

THANK YOU to ALL of you.

I do NOT plan to go back to the woman - you all gave great advice - I wish I would have been able to read all this before going to bed last night. I was freaking out. (Yet again, a few glasses of wine probably also contributed to that).

Thinking BACK to last night.......I can see how she MAY have known what to say. My friend and I were sitting on a park bench. We had gone out for drinks and then decided that we wanted some sushi. So, we stopped by a place and ordered it to go - - along with another drink. Since it was beautiful outside, we decided to go sit on the bench and enjoy the afternoon. We were discussing the events of me going to Las Vegas - - and at the same time, my ex called on the phone - and I talked to him, and she talked to him. When we hung up, we talked some more.

I paid NO ATTENTION to anyone else around. This woman could have simply eavesdropped on our conversations and then after we got up and started walking home, she sees me on the street and decides to give me advice.

It all makes perfect sense after sleeping last night and then coming here to read the posts. She MUST have overheard our conversation and then realized this was a way to make some money.

THANKS for being cynical friends!!!!

There's NO TELLING how much a reading would have cost me, so you've saved me some $$ and now I'm laughing at myself here. (Go ahead - laugh with me - - it's ok) Just admit you would have probably freaked out, too and been like WTF and wanted to know HOW IN THE WORLD someone knew so much about you.

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

No reason to laugh at you; these people are professionals at what they do. They prey on the vulnerable.

--J.D.

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:54 pm

both my girlfriend and her daughter see spirit-i have checked where they see spirit with an emf meter and it always registers positive-things i have learned-mostly everyone has a spirit living with them-you never know tho,spirit appears along roadsides-where they are walking to who knows but they know when someone sees them,alot dont know they are dead,some come in to visit (relatives) and leave just as quick,some come in as orbs and become full size spirit then disappear,you always appear as a younger version of oneself,graveyards have the odd ones hanging around but that is uncommon-interested pm me

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

Quote:

Virtually all ghost hunter groups claim to be scientific, and most give that appearance because they use high-tech scientific equipment such as Geiger counters, Electromagnetic Field (EMF) detectors, ion detectors, and infrared cameras. Yet the equipment is only as scientific as the person using it; you may own the world�s most sophisticated thermometer, but if you are using it as a barometer, your measurements are worthless. Just as using a calculator doesn�t make you a mathematician, using a scientific instrument doesn�t make you a scientist.

. . . .

An EMF meter is among the most common devices used by ghost hunters today. I spoke to Tom Cook, of TomsGadgets.com, a British purveyor of �scientific� paranormal kits for the enterprising (and gullible) investigator. Starter kits begin at 105 [pounds sterling] (US$180) and reach up to 500 [pounds sterling] (US$850) for a custom ghost-hunting kit. (Negative Ionizer Ghost Containment packs were not listed.) I asked him what, exactly, the scientific rationale was behind the equipment he sold. He replied, �At a haunted location, strong, erratic fluctuating EMFs are commonly found. It seems these energy fields have some definite connection to the presence of ghosts. The exact nature of that connection is still a mystery. However, the anomalous fields are easy to find. Whenever you locate one, a ghost might be present.... any erratic EMF fluctuations you may detect may indicate ghostly activity.� In the final analysis, Cook admitted, �there exists no device that can conclusively detect ghosts.�

The uncomfortable reality that ghost hunters carefully avoid�the elephant in the tiny, haunted room�is of course that no one has ever shown that any of this equipment actually detects ghosts. The supposed links between ghosts and electromagnetic fields, low temperatures, radiation, odd photographic images, and so on are based on nothing more than guesses, unproven theories, and wild conjecture. If a device could reliably determine the presence or absence of ghosts, then by definition, ghosts would be proven to exist. I own an EMF meter, but since it�s useless for ghost investigations�it finds not spirits but red herrings�I use it in my lectures and seminars as an example of pseudoscience. The most important tools in this or any investigation are a questioning mind and a solid understanding of scientific principles.

Reality Check

--J.D.

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