Is this a scam? Confused...

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 2

Hi all,
First, new to the site, but have known about it for some time. I am also a very experienced user, but I am involved in what appears to be a new one (at least to me) and I am not sure if it is a scam yet or not.

I have a car posted for sale online.

Here is the first email received from a yahoo.co.uk address even though the car is in the US:

Hello,
Thanks for your reply, my brother (client) instructed that you have to answer this
important questions below to enable him to know the quality of the property
he is about to pay for.....
Questions:
1.Is the engine in perfect condition?
Ans.................
2.How often do you service the vehicle?
Ans.................
3.How many miles is the vehicle at the moment?
Ans.................
4.Are you the owner placing it for sale?
Ans.................
5.If yes,for how long did you used the vehicle?
Ans.................
6.Has the vehicle involved in auto accident?
Ans.................
7.what is your last price?
Ans............
8.Hope the papers are ready?
Ans.................
NB:
As soon as you answer this important questions the earlier your payment will get to you.
Have a fabulous day.

Almost all of the info is in the ad for the car already.
I think it is a scam already, but wanted to bait them along, so responded with the correct information.

I then receive:
Hello,
What is your final price for immediate payment..this is my phone number 5148144243.Thanks

I did not call the number, but reply via email with the price of $16500.

I then receive:

Good Day
Thanks for your response. I'm happy to inform you that I have concluded with my brother
(client) Pastor David Nathan and he has instructed me to proceed with the transaction.
He said that this transaction are being sponsored by the church committee
members of Lutheran Church�Canada,251 Sherwood St,montreal Canada on
behalf of him and his wife Mrs Mary Nathan in commemoration of their Welcome to the new
district Headquarters,the celebrations will commence with the presentation of the vehicle
to the family.
Already, a certified cashier's check of ($22,000usd) has been mapped out by the church
committee members which now covers the whole expenses of the purchase of your vehicle,
tax ,shipping charges,paper work necessary for shipment of the property etc.
I have therefore been mandated by my client to forward your full payment information
to the church for them to make out this payment in your name.
My brother explained to me that why you are to receive this payment in this amount is
because the money being used for the payment of your vehicle was a donation made to the church
by a Christain organisation in support of her celebration on her golden jubilee.
He also told me that he will be travelling to the POLAND today for an important Evangelical
conference.
So Once you receive your payment, you are expected to deduct the cost of your vehicle
which is
($16,000usd) and send the remaining balance of ($6,000usd) to the shipping/pickup agent
to enable her to offset shipping charges & tax etc. After you have received your payment
and sent the balance to shipping/pickup agent,she will come to your location for inspection,
pick up of vehicle & signing all the necessary document in your place,then
drive it to a prepaid shipper, to be shipped to my brother.
Please confirm the above details and provide your payment information for your payment to
be delivered to you via courier service as soon as possible.
Please provide the following payment info:
1-LEGAL NAME IN FULL..............
2.CONTACT ADDRESS.....................
3.PHONE NUMBER(S)...........................
I will be expecting your mail with your full payment information so that we can proceed
with the transaction.
Thanks And God Bless you,
xxx xxxxx
816 S. Michigan St.
South Bend
Montreal Canada.

Really looks like a scam now, but I can't figure out how it would work in their favor.

I send a fake name, but a real address to the person to see how far they will go. I then receive:

Alfredo,
Just to confirm my client interest in this transaction. He has confirmed to me that the payment package has been sent today so you will be receiving the check payment package by 2nd July and 4th July due little delay in documentation and endorsement of the cashier check. I advise you exercise little patience and hold on the vehicle for Him having reconfirmed his interest. I�ll give you a call for further info.

NB: Here is a copy of the bill of sale for your review so that you may read over it, before the agent comes with the original. I will type your full name and address inside the document. My agent will come with the original signed copy of this bill of sale on the day of pickup. This is just the preview.
BILL OF SALE:

I, ................. (seller), in consideration of .................dollars

($ ............... ), do hereby sell, transfer and convey

to .......................... (buyer), the following

vehicle:...........I, the undersigned seller, do sell the above-

described vehicle to the buyer for the amount shown and certify

that all of the information provided in this Bill of Sale is true and

accurate to the best of my knowledge.

I, the undersigned buyer, acknowledge receipt of this Bill of Sale

and understand there is no guarantee or warranty, expressed or

implied, with respect to the above-described property. It is also

understood that the above-stated vehicle is sold in "as is"

condition.

Dated this ___________________ day of _________________,

200____.

Make:..............................................................

Model:.............................................................

Year:...............................................................

VIN:.................................................................

Seller Name:.......................................................

Seller Signature:..........................

Driver's License #:........................

Phone #:......................................

Street Address:..................................................

City:.......... State:................. ZIP:......................

Buyers name.......................................................

Buyers signature..................................................

Driver's license #.........................

Phone #......................................

Street Address:...................................................

City:.......... State:................. ZIP:......................
Federal and State Law requires that the Seller state the Mileage upon transfer of ownership. Failure to complete or providing an inaccurate or untruthful statement may result in fines and/or imprisonment.
Odometer Disclosure Statement
I, --------------------------(Seller), STATE AND DECLARE that the following vehicle's (the 'Motor Vehicle') odometer reads as follows:
Make Model Year
------- ------------- -------------
Current Odometer Reading Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) Body Type
I CERTIFY that to the best of my knowledge the odometer reading as stated above reflects the actual mileage of the Motor Vehicle. I CERTIFY that the odometer of the Motor Vehicle was not altered, set back, or disconnected while in my possession, and I have no knowledge of anyone else doing so.
SIGNED, SEALED AND DELIVERED
this ___________ day of July, 2007 in the presence of:
Have a great day.

I now am very confused, and send them a refusal email saying I do not want to proceed and am alerting the authorities. Today I receive:

Happy Independence Day!!!
How are you today?,hope you are doing great.Do pardon my break in communication
and late response,i have been out of town for a couple of days to attend to my
husband,who suffered a severe heart attack.I have since not checked this mail account.
I apologize for the delay in delivering your payment package,i crave your indulgence
to acknowledge that i just finished inquiring from the manager at the courier company
as to the status of your payment delivery,and he informed me that your package was
earlier mistakenly delivered to a wrong destination,due to misplacement by the
sorting department but,has been called back and resent,and is now on transit to
your location and should get to you soon.Please,do accept my sincere apologies
for the delay and do understand that it is totaly not our fault,but that of the
courier company.
Please, keep me posted and do not hesitate to inform me as soon as you receive your
payment. Please,also re-confirm that the address you sent below is correct,to ensure
that the payment gets to you safely;

Alfredo Burr
my address and phone number here.

So, 1. is this a scam? 2. How does it work that they get my money?

Thanks!

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

Quote:

($16,000usd) and send the remaining balance of ($6,000usd)

It's an overpayment scam. You would deposit the check, which is counterfeit or stolen, into your account and send the $6000 to the lad. Eventually the check will bounce and your bank will come after you for the entire amount, $22,000.

You would also be subject to criminal charges for fraud if you bank decided to go that route, which many of them are now.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:07 pm

A very standard overpayment scam. You pay in the cheque, send the overpayment to wherever you are directed and the cheque bounces as counterfeit or forged. You lose the whole amount and have to explain why you are passing forged cheque to the bank and/or police and the scammer gets the over payment and maybe even your car, if he's lucky, but it's the cash he wants.

It's that simple.

Edit - beaten to the punch Very Happy

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:07 pm

It's a typical "overpayment" scam:

Quote:

Already, a certified cashier's check of ($22,000usd) ......you are expected to deduct the cost of your vehicle
which is ($16,000usd) and send the remaining balance of ($6,000usd) to the shipping/pickup agent

The "certified cashier's check" will ultimately bounce. They are hoping that you will have deposited the check, and when the funds are released (PRIOR to final payment by the issuing bank) you will send them the money. When the check is discovered fake (weeks or even months later, if out of country), the bank will come after you for the full amount.

(EDIT: @TS, @Gomer: Damn you guys are quick.... Laughing

)

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 2

Thanks! Very interesting, I hope you do not mind GP, but I used your signature in my reply to the person. If I do get a check, it will be a little memento soubeneir.

Great job guys.

S

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:13 pm

My real life signature is not of this planet so I am told Very Happy

- otherwise take anything you want - baiters like sharing and work as a team - that's why we always win. Wink

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:19 pm

That phone number (514.814.4243), by the way, shows up in a search on a couple other similar scam letters going back to January 2006(!). It's an unpublished land line # in Montreal, FWIW. You'd think the authorities would have done something by now...some lad has that phone number...

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:36 pm

@superfreaker
I hope the scammer isn't sending that souvenir check to your RL address. Rule number one is bait safe and sending a scammer your address is a no no. Smile

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:44 pm

You could always tell him the car was wrecked beyond repair, and will send him a 67 Volkswagon bug that needs engine work instead. Let him know that the extra money,(once you receive the check), is going to be used for your lavish vacation in an exotic location. And, again, don't use your real address, or anything else real. I just make stuff up.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:46 pm

superfreaker wrote:

i have been out of town for a couple of days to attend to my husband,who suffered a severe heart attack.
Alfredo Burr

Hooray for same-sex marriages!!!! Shocked

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:06 am

ratter wrote:

That phone number (514.814.4243), by the way, shows up in a search on a couple other similar scam letters going back to January 2006(!). It's an unpublished land line # in Montreal, FWIW. You'd think the authorities would have done something by now...some lad has that phone number...

I'm not sure the authorities are interested in this "small" stuff. I have been sending e-mail to the RCMP in Ontario, giving them specific names and addresses of two guys to whom I'm supposed to send moneygrams so this scammer won't kill me. The RCMP "scammer police" including Nigerian stuff is "Phonebusters"...listed on the RCMP website. They have ignored me...not responded at all. A simple "yes, we're interested" or "no, we're not" would have been nice.

I guess they like criminals living and "working" in their communities. Rolling Eyes

A waste of tax money. Sad

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:13 pm

TSnerd wrote:

Quote:

($16,000usd) and send the remaining balance of ($6,000usd)

It's an overpayment scam. You would deposit the check, which is counterfeit or stolen, into your account and send the $6000 to the lad. Eventually the check will bounce and your bank will come after you for the entire amount, $22,000.

You would also be subject to criminal charges for fraud if you bank decided to go that route, which many of them are now.

The bank would only ask you for the amount you sent out, the $6000 not the entire $22,000

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:19 pm

^^^^^ this may be only semantics but they want the entire amount; if the $16,000 is still in your account, it won't be for long....

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:21 pm

True, if the rest of the $22,000 was still in the account, but you would be on the hook for the entire amount.

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:40 pm

When they give you access to the money (deposited to your accout) it is the full amount.

If they allow partial pending verification then, it could be two (or more)charges: 1) the partial amount as fraud; 2) the full amount for the attempted fraud; 3) many other 'smaller' charges that they can figure out and add (regardless of if they can prove them).

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