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Josh
Elite Baiter
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund
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Posted:
Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:38 pm |
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This seems to be a bit of an area of contention. Once it's pretty clear a bait has come to an end (i.e. they've sent you tonnes of abuse or haven't got back to you for a while or you've done everything you want to) is it OK to send them an email saying "hey sucker guess what I've been baiting you the whole time, everything was fake and I've turned the tables on you".
It seems to me as though there are advantages and disadvantages either way, and I was curious to see what the forum users have to say on the topic.
If we do tell them, then that has the advantage of letting them know there are baiters out there (lots of them) and that each time they scam they may actually be going on a wild goose chase (a very long one sometimes). Surely this might put some of them off baiting, or at least make them think twice about it, if this kind of thing happens almost all the time they're baiting. On the down side of telling them there is the potential to spoil other people's fun as a scammer may twig that perhaps that other guy he's talking to isn't real either.
I have to say that I'm probably in favour of telling them, simply because it seems to fulfil the "good citizen" side of scam-baiting, by potentially discouraging scammers from doing what they're doing. Shiver's baits generally involve this kind of conclusion, although other people have suggested that I shouldn't do such a thing. |
_________________
If you know what is going on here, you will be shock to your marrows - Captain Brian
Ahm3d K4diri: Tamale (Ghana) - Porto Novo (Benin) |
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DementedAngel
419Eater is my life
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 344
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Posted:
Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:45 pm |
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The only one that benefits from telling the lad "you just got burned" is the scammer. The victims dont benfit, because the lad becomes mroe careful; other baiters dont benefit, because the lad becomes more careful.
The scammer benefits when you tell him he was baited because he gets to learn from it and improve his techniques. He becomes more careful and more successful.
If you simply drop him, it leaves him wondering where he messed up, but not really with any clue as to being baited. As a side benefit, if you dont tell him, you can often pick him back up months later when you get bored.
As for the "potentially discouraging them" bit, it doesnt work. They cannot understand why we do what we do. To them, scamming is perfectly acceptable and isn't thievery, but is simply a game. Did you know that many of the lads pray to god that their scam will successful? It's a totally different culture and mindset. |
_________________ "I will never forgive you for what you have done to me and my family."
Click here to support 419Eater.com
Last edited by DementedAngel on Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mad4Maya
Master Baiter
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Northern Exposure
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Posted:
Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:48 pm |
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It seems to be "best practise" to not tell the lads they've been baited. It's best to let them wonder what went wrong rather than tell them they weren't going to get a payoff to begin with. If you tell them they were baited, it probably won't discourage them from scamming but instead give them tip offs to watch for next time. |
_________________ X3
just recently terchers started to attached english as a subject to students can you imagine..Um4ru Z0ng0<BR>
don't take this message as a scam, because the internet frauders have spoilt everything on internet...Engr. Ademola<BR>
I will like to assure you that this transaction is 100% risk to both parties...Th0mps0n Br0wn
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Josh
Elite Baiter
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund
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Posted:
Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:53 pm |
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All good points, I am myself a little doubtful whether a scammer would really care enough about a couple of bad results affecting whether they scam in the future.
I just wonder though if almost all the people they were currently scamming were indeed baiters (which may well be true, surely there can't be as many real victims out there as there are baiters?) and they kept on repeatedly having to do heaps of work for absolutely nothing they'd really consider a change in 'profession'.
Then again I guess they're always gambling on the fact that they only need one to work out and that's more money than they'd earn in a year doing anything else. |
_________________
If you know what is going on here, you will be shock to your marrows - Captain Brian
Ahm3d K4diri: Tamale (Ghana) - Porto Novo (Benin) |
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FiveForces
Elite Baiter
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 1254
Location: Richville, USA (honest!)
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Posted:
Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:53 pm |
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I look at like this: you tell him, he'll be pissed off. You dont tell him and leave him wondering, he'll be pissed off and confused ...so no, dont tell them. |
_________________ THE MASTERMINDER OF FAKE NEWS
"GO AND DIE AND NOPT LIVE OK, YOU STUPID FOUL YOU TAKEW ME FOR PLAY? SEND YOUR SHIPPING INFO AND THAT ALL YOU TALK STUPID, SEND ME YOUR NUMBER THAT ALKL I NEED FROM YOU. NO NUKMBER GO AND DON;T SEND NO MONEY AND SEND HAVE NO PUPPY"
~ Bri Thany
"The whole situation is becoming ridiculous and absurd. Its hard to explain how a transaction that normally takes a few minutes to be concluded is starting to run into weeks."
~ Genesis Art & Craft
"you are treating me like a fool which is not supposed to be done"
~ Barryston Morgan
"I don't understand this...Its like you are playing on my intelligence."
~ Peter Roy |
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Mad4Maya
Master Baiter
Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 169
Location: Northern Exposure
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:04 am |
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Quote: |
surely there can't be as many real victims out there as there are baiters? |
I read somewhere on here that Queensland Australia sends $500,000 per month to 419 scammers. I also saw an estimate that in 2006 there was 3 billion sent from the USA. That's translates into lots of victims. |
_________________ X3
just recently terchers started to attached english as a subject to students can you imagine..Um4ru Z0ng0<BR>
don't take this message as a scam, because the internet frauders have spoilt everything on internet...Engr. Ademola<BR>
I will like to assure you that this transaction is 100% risk to both parties...Th0mps0n Br0wn
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GomerPyle
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 8875
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:07 am |
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Personally I never tell a Lad, and I feel that the belief that it was their fault it all went wrong, must nag and gnaw into their tiny brains. One Lad even tried to flatter me into owning up, but I never did. He called me a technical guru -
technical incompetent more like.
The latest reason I have found for never telling a Lad, is that my first mugu has returned after I burned him nicely. I had him on the run for 5/6 months and if I had owned up he wouldn't have come back like a sulking pet.
I know him inside out, have a few more tools in my kit and will burn him harder. |
_________________ Fake sites killed 1 x 9 x 3 x 168 X
- the 'Asparagus Kid' - Accra to Lome - You Must surly Die in The Name Of Jesus Christ
- Steve - Lagos to Accra
- Frank - Lagos to Cotonou - co-bait with the vampire
- Shorty - Lagos to Cotonou - My Agro Base farming where i rearing chicken and other animals was set ablazed overnight and we do not know who is actual behinde all these evils! -
I and my crew was locked up for 3 good days….They wanted to charge us to court but later we are fined an huge amount of money…I asked them why did they arrest the men, they started laughing and saying all sorts mockering words! -
…because now, am left with nothing and remember i told you my Guy (Joe) gave up earlier this morning |
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Josh
Elite Baiter
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:08 am |
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^^^ Those are pretty scary figures aren't they? I mean the whole film industry in the US does about $6 billion a year in box office takings - 419 scammers really are holding up the Nigerian economy if this is the case.
I guess we don't hear about it as often as you would think because people are generally too embarrassed to go to the police and/or TV to tell their story. |
_________________
If you know what is going on here, you will be shock to your marrows - Captain Brian
Ahm3d K4diri: Tamale (Ghana) - Porto Novo (Benin) |
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Josh
Elite Baiter
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:11 am |
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GomerPyle wrote: |
The latest reason I have found for never telling a Lad, is that my first mugu has returned after I burned him nicely. I had him on the run for 5/6 months and if I had owned up he wouldn't have come back like a sulking pet.
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In one of my baits I did end up telling the lad that I was baiting him (well her in this case), but a few weeks later I got another email from her, saying the transaction was successful and it was time for me to pick up my share of the funds.
This one was particularly odd considering she had been at death's door just a couple of weeks earlier. |
_________________
If you know what is going on here, you will be shock to your marrows - Captain Brian
Ahm3d K4diri: Tamale (Ghana) - Porto Novo (Benin) |
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SherlockHolmie
Master Baiter
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Baker Street
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:16 am |
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I'm not going to tell my lads; I'm new to this but I know now that I'd rather end it with them in a state of utter frustration, otherwise, where's the fun? |
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bill2
Baiting Guru
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 5495
Location: Yeah who can tell me where I am?
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:23 am |
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they got to make money too and if in doubt why not try it again.
I never tell them and when the last payment falls through, they usually quit answering, so I wait a week and tell them then that they should be happy with the money, I won't miss it, cause it's a tax write off to me. Some want another go at it and come back in a week or two, the others find someone else to bug I guess. |
_________________ I don't do bling, I just do lads |
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FiveForces
Elite Baiter
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 1254
Location: Richville, USA (honest!)
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:25 am |
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@ yrubraj,
By chance, was that mugu Princess M4ri4m? I didnt tell her I was baiting, but she did that to me today. Never had it before... |
_________________ THE MASTERMINDER OF FAKE NEWS
"GO AND DIE AND NOPT LIVE OK, YOU STUPID FOUL YOU TAKEW ME FOR PLAY? SEND YOUR SHIPPING INFO AND THAT ALL YOU TALK STUPID, SEND ME YOUR NUMBER THAT ALKL I NEED FROM YOU. NO NUKMBER GO AND DON;T SEND NO MONEY AND SEND HAVE NO PUPPY"
~ Bri Thany
"The whole situation is becoming ridiculous and absurd. Its hard to explain how a transaction that normally takes a few minutes to be concluded is starting to run into weeks."
~ Genesis Art & Craft
"you are treating me like a fool which is not supposed to be done"
~ Barryston Morgan
"I don't understand this...Its like you are playing on my intelligence."
~ Peter Roy |
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callum
Director of Press Relations
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 3631
Location: On the run from the asylum and this seems like a good place to hide. Blend right in...
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:28 am |
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Been discussed plenty of times here before, but anyway...
yrubraj wrote: |
If we do tell them, then that has the advantage of letting them know there are baiters out there (lots of them) and that each time they scam they may actually be going on a wild goose chase (a very long one sometimes). |
Lads send out 1000's emails at a time in their search for victims. Not all of them are sent to baiters. Many, if not the majority of them, reach potential victims. A surprising number of them will then reply. That's why the scammers keep doing what they do.
yrubraj wrote: |
Surely this might put some of them off baiting, or at least make them think twice about it, if this kind of thing happens almost all the time they're baiting. |
No. Lads are too lazy to get real jobs. Beside which, there are more than enough gullible/innocent/greedy people out there who fall victim, making scamming a worthwhile 'occupation' for these bastards. There are very few poor scammers.
yrubraj wrote: |
On the down side of telling them there is the potential to spoil other people's fun as a scammer may twig that perhaps that other guy he's talking to isn't real either. |
Exactly. Which then sends the scammer off to look for real victims, which is he very likely to find. Making you a "bad citizen".
yrubraj wrote: |
I have to say that I'm probably in favour of telling them, simply because it seems to fulfil the "good citizen" side of scam-baiting |
The good citizen side of baiting is keeping these assholes too occupied to have the time to find or carry on with real victims. And if we can get them beaten, stranded in some flea infested war zone or the best outcome of all, arrested, then that's the icing on the cake. |
_________________ Do you have a concern about ethics? Click here, then here and finally HERE!
Bush goat you will meat like a chicken. It will kill you in your house where you are going to die.
I owe you quite simply one of the definitive experiences of my life.
x 2 teeny part of a large effort x29 x5
Trolling is usually symptomatic of bad character, mental problems or ugliness - RIP Jock_2009 |
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johnny5
Master Baiter
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 109
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:35 am |
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I doubt that many scammers read to the end of burn mails anyway. If there's a hint in the subject they might not read any of it.
I tend to think that although it's satisfying to you to let it all out, or to "win the argument" by telling them, they'll be pissed off for the time it takes to reply then they'll move to the next victim who has supplied a MTCN and suddenly forget.
Mad4Maya wrote: |
I also saw an estimate that in 2006 there was 3 billion sent from the USA |
I read somewhere that the average sent from a USA victim is $17,000 before they give up or run out of cash.
If both figures are about right, that comes to 176,470 victims a year or 483 an hour, which seems feasible. |
_________________ "When you do something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" - "God", Futurama |
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Franc28
*** BANNED ***
Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:43 am |
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It may be justifiable to do so at the end of a gang bait or mass bait, but not in the course of a normal, individual bait which most likely gets lots in their daily activities. |
_________________ www.insolitology.com
Fighting the forces of censorship and getting his sig deleted by admins since 1989. |
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fun2scam
Master Baiter
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 100
Location: 33� 55' South 151� 17' East
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:53 am |
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I've been contemplating something similar, but then not similar.
What I've been thinking is once you get the the end of a bait that included trophies like Tattoos or Church of M1lk and H0ney Induction photos, you could pay for them to be posted in the scammers local newspaper, with a story about how stupid he was.
I think being ridiculed by his peers is the only way a scammer is ever really going to stop...
Of course I haven't figured out any of the finer details of this idea, because I am an ideas man, not a finer points man...
Cheers,
fun2scam |
_________________ you are a nigeria and i know you are a scammer/thief |
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Ghost
419Eater Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 6162
Location: Dating Gal Gadot... in my mind.
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:54 am |
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I believe the consensus is not to tell them. I don�t see any reason to other then it�s funny. Personally, I find it funny not to tell them. I know there are some members (maybe even a mod) who think it�s a good thing to tell them have been baited.
I don�t think telling a lad he had been baited will make him learn anything. If you tell him he had been baited he will think there was nothing wrong with his script/scam/modality as you were never serious to begin with.
As a rule, I would never tell them if I had used Mcd�s site as it burns the site. Not to mention the site owner requested us not to tell the lad he had be baited if we use his site.
Personally I think telling them will do more harm then good. But whether you tell them or not they will just keep doing what they do. |
_________________
8/11/07-12/15/08 i am totally a looser -Bruce The trophy machine
2/25/08-4/10/10 It is going to cost me more this time - Lawrence, EFCC Lad Deck participant
3/3/08-6/6/10 i know some day you'll send me some real good bucks ok - Byran The Eater Bunny
3/13/08-3/25/10 i have played my path and now I am waiting for the pay - Wale Wild card |
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callum
Director of Press Relations
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 3631
Location: On the run from the asylum and this seems like a good place to hide. Blend right in...
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:10 am |
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fun2scam wrote: |
I think being ridiculed by his peers is the only way a scammer is ever really going to stop... |
Nope. That only makes him try harder to win gain face again, which if he is bothered by being rediculed he will do quitely or move to another cafe. The only gaurantee that a scammer will cease and desist follows burial. |
_________________ Do you have a concern about ethics? Click here, then here and finally HERE!
Bush goat you will meat like a chicken. It will kill you in your house where you are going to die.
I owe you quite simply one of the definitive experiences of my life.
x 2 teeny part of a large effort x29 x5
Trolling is usually symptomatic of bad character, mental problems or ugliness - RIP Jock_2009 |
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Josh
Elite Baiter
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:13 am |
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FiveForces wrote: |
@ yrubraj,
By chance, was that mugu Princess M4ri4m? I didnt tell her I was baiting, but she did that to me today. Never had it before... |
No it wasn't. It came at the end of the bait I published here:
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114459
I guess she either sent out a mass of emails to every address she could find, or she sent out that email to everyone she'd been in contact with - regardless of how it had turned out. |
_________________
If you know what is going on here, you will be shock to your marrows - Captain Brian
Ahm3d K4diri: Tamale (Ghana) - Porto Novo (Benin) |
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Ginch
Master Baiter
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 208
Location: Here...and there!
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:17 am |
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Mad4Maya wrote: |
I also saw an estimate that in 2006 there was 3 billion sent from the USA. That's translates into lots of victims. |
Nah, the Americans were pinched on Ebay.
(sigh) Put me down for not telling them, despite my love for the endgame tantrums I've admired in so many siggys here. |
_________________ Retired baiter, now mostly lurks in gen chat |
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Herb Sewell
419Eater is my life
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 406
Location: Atascadero State Hospital for the Criminally Insane
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:35 am |
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NEVER TELL. PERIOD. If you do, then you are just in it for yourself. And it means that your ego is so fragile that it needs to feel superior over someone. You are never going to feel some big rush of satisfaction by telling. If you do, then you just educated a scammer and made him better. The sad truth is that no one in law enforcement cares enough or has enough working brain cells to actually go after these scammers. Look at that "To catch a predator" Dumbass Chris Hansen. When He went into Africa with the trail closing in on real scammers with radio trackers, He messed it up by shooting his mouth off in town and the scammers had time to get the equipment back into the customs office.
Just like every stupid cop show on TV where they "Confront the Criminal with the Evidence" until they give it up and confess. THAT NEVER WORKS IN REAL LIFE. What really works is BEFRIEND AND BETRAY.
You have to excersise SELF CONTROL.
NEVER TELL ! |
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Doctor X
** ACCOUNT CLOSED **
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 766
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:42 am |
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Agreed with the consensus above.
As a "watcher" of these baits, as much as it would be "fun" to see a response when you tell some prat that he tattoo'd himself for nothing . . . built a pyramid . . . all of that, it merely educates them.
Besides, as others note, doubt this "stops" them, so you lose the chance to "rebait" them later on, which only gives the lad more opportunity to successfully scam a victim.
--J.D. |
_________________ וגם־אני נתתי להם חקים לא טובים ומשפטים לא יחיו בהם
ואטמא אותם במתנותם בהעביר כל־פטר רחם למען אשםם למען אשר ידעו אשר אני יהוה |
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Juan Freizwidatt
Associate
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 20834
Location: Hanging out at In-n-Out
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:49 am |
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This is a discussion that has come up many times, but it really does remind me how much baiting has evolved in the past four years since I got into it. Some things that were commonly done in that time (e.g. cash baiting) are now frowned upon. and for good reason. The community has grown and matured, and along with it our baiting modalities have also matured. The really great baits happening today are so much better than anything we could have imagined then that I can't believe we're only talking about a few year's time difference.
I originally got hooked on scamorama.com. I laughed for a week reading the baits on the site and said "I can do that!" And I did. It took a bit to get a good bait going but I played it for laughs -- for publication -- and I took glee in rubbing the lad's face in the fact that I'd baited him. I still think it's a funny bait, but when I look at it on scamorama now I wince. I'd never do it the same way today. I ran it to conclusion way too quickly, and then played the "GOTCHA!" card. I blew a chance to really ride that miserable bastard instead of just having a cheap laugh. Oh well, it was a decent start if not a great bait.
My baits today wouldn't make great reading but they cause vastly more lad pain. I would NEVER openly burn a lad at the end again. It's so much better to let them stew in agony over 'the one that got away.' |
_________________ "SATAN WILL KILL YOU . BECAUSE YOU ARE A DAUGHTER OF MERMAID"
"HOW DOES IT SOUND TO YOU THAT ANOTHER PERSON IS DEALING WITH YOU AND ASK YOU TO CONTACT ANOTHER PERSON AND NOW YOU SAID THAT YOU WANT TO DEAL WITH THE OTHER PERSON WITHOUT THE KNOWING OF THE PERSON THAT ASK YOU TO CONTACT THE OTHER PERSON"
I apologize again that I will lick the dust from your sandals - Shorty
x4: Shorty
x 16:
US lad w/Capone: ( )
- ATL>DC>ATL>Vegas>Seattle>ATL>San Diego>LA>ATL>Seattle>ATL>WY>ATL>Aspen>ATL (21K+ miles, $11K+ expenses)
Shorty w/bohigal:
- Lagos>Abidjan
Random lads:
- Douala>Korup; Lagos>Cotonou>Parakou; Cotonou>Niger border; Cotonou>Pendjari>jail in Tanguietta; Asaba>Abuja; Accra>Tamale
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Josh
Elite Baiter
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 1799
Location: Nu Zilund
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:03 am |
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I brought up the topic largely because I think it is a good point of debate for baiters, and it's interesting to see that everyone so far recommends not telling the scammers what we've been doing to them. While the topic has been mentioned before, I couldn't find it in any of the more recent pages and didn't really want to go necro an old thread.
Anyway, I have been convinced not to tell by all this. Largely because I agree that it probably hooks the scammer on to looking out for batiers, and then being able to distinguish between real victims and baiters. So many times I think to myself "surely a real victim wouldn't be saying the shit I am", but the lad still falls for it, and I guess that's largely because he's unaware of baiters. If he was more aware then he'd recognise us when we didn't get hugely excited about winning lotteries but rather just said "what next buddy?" |
_________________
If you know what is going on here, you will be shock to your marrows - Captain Brian
Ahm3d K4diri: Tamale (Ghana) - Porto Novo (Benin) |
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Doctor X
** ACCOUNT CLOSED **
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 766
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Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:23 am |
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^^^^Good thing to revisit. Believe me, the temptation to "Nyah! Nyah!" must be severe.
More effective to let them stew.
The whole Third Anniversary Safari bait is wonderful--imagine if 3d was told "LOL U got PWN3D" one or two years ago! He might be successfully scamming, and he certainly would not be in Singapore!
--J.D. |
_________________ וגם־אני נתתי להם חקים לא טובים ומשפטים לא יחיו בהם
ואטמא אותם במתנותם בהעביר כל־פטר רחם למען אשםם למען אשר ידעו אשר אני יהוה |
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