Should we tell the lads that we've baited them at the end?

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:38 pm

This seems to be a bit of an area of contention. Once it's pretty clear a bait has come to an end (i.e. they've sent you tonnes of abuse or haven't got back to you for a while or you've done everything you want to) is it OK to send them an email saying "hey sucker guess what I've been baiting you the whole time, everything was fake and I've turned the tables on you".

It seems to me as though there are advantages and disadvantages either way, and I was curious to see what the forum users have to say on the topic.

If we do tell them, then that has the advantage of letting them know there are baiters out there (lots of them) and that each time they scam they may actually be going on a wild goose chase (a very long one sometimes). Surely this might put some of them off baiting, or at least make them think twice about it, if this kind of thing happens almost all the time they're baiting. On the down side of telling them there is the potential to spoil other people's fun as a scammer may twig that perhaps that other guy he's talking to isn't real either.

I have to say that I'm probably in favour of telling them, simply because it seems to fulfil the "good citizen" side of scam-baiting, by potentially discouraging scammers from doing what they're doing. Shiver's baits generally involve this kind of conclusion, although other people have suggested that I shouldn't do such a thing.

419Eater is my life Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 344

The only one that benefits from telling the lad "you just got burned" is the scammer. The victims dont benfit, because the lad becomes mroe careful; other baiters dont benefit, because the lad becomes more careful.

The scammer benefits when you tell him he was baited because he gets to learn from it and improve his techniques. He becomes more careful and more successful.

If you simply drop him, it leaves him wondering where he messed up, but not really with any clue as to being baited. As a side benefit, if you dont tell him, you can often pick him back up months later when you get bored.

As for the "potentially discouraging them" bit, it doesnt work. They cannot understand why we do what we do. To them, scamming is perfectly acceptable and isn't thievery, but is simply a game. Did you know that many of the lads pray to god that their scam will successful? It's a totally different culture and mindset.

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:48 pm

It seems to be "best practise" to not tell the lads they've been baited. It's best to let them wonder what went wrong rather than tell them they weren't going to get a payoff to begin with. If you tell them they were baited, it probably won't discourage them from scamming but instead give them tip offs to watch for next time.

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:53 pm

All good points, I am myself a little doubtful whether a scammer would really care enough about a couple of bad results affecting whether they scam in the future.

I just wonder though if almost all the people they were currently scamming were indeed baiters (which may well be true, surely there can't be as many real victims out there as there are baiters?) and they kept on repeatedly having to do heaps of work for absolutely nothing they'd really consider a change in 'profession'.

Then again I guess they're always gambling on the fact that they only need one to work out and that's more money than they'd earn in a year doing anything else.

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:53 pm

I look at like this: you tell him, he'll be pissed off. You dont tell him and leave him wondering, he'll be pissed off and confused Razz

...so no, dont tell them.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:04 am

Quote:

surely there can't be as many real victims out there as there are baiters?

I read somewhere on here that Queensland Australia sends $500,000 per month to 419 scammers. I also saw an estimate that in 2006 there was 3 billion sent from the USA. That's translates into lots of victims.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:07 am

Personally I never tell a Lad, and I feel that the belief that it was their fault it all went wrong, must nag and gnaw into their tiny brains. One Lad even tried to flatter me into owning up, but I never did. He called me a technical guru -
Laughing

technical incompetent more like.

The latest reason I have found for never telling a Lad, is that my first mugu has returned after I burned him nicely. I had him on the run for 5/6 months and if I had owned up he wouldn't have come back like a sulking pet.

I know him inside out, have a few more tools in my kit and will burn him harder. Twisted Evil

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:08 am

^^^ Those are pretty scary figures aren't they? I mean the whole film industry in the US does about $6 billion a year in box office takings - 419 scammers really are holding up the Nigerian economy if this is the case.

I guess we don't hear about it as often as you would think because people are generally too embarrassed to go to the police and/or TV to tell their story.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:11 am

GomerPyle wrote:

The latest reason I have found for never telling a Lad, is that my first mugu has returned after I burned him nicely. I had him on the run for 5/6 months and if I had owned up he wouldn't have come back like a sulking pet.

In one of my baits I did end up telling the lad that I was baiting him (well her in this case), but a few weeks later I got another email from her, saying the transaction was successful and it was time for me to pick up my share of the funds.

This one was particularly odd considering she had been at death's door just a couple of weeks earlier.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:16 am

I'm not going to tell my lads; I'm new to this but I know now that I'd rather end it with them in a state of utter frustration, otherwise, where's the fun?

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:23 am

they got to make money too and if in doubt why not try it again. Laughing

I never tell them and when the last payment falls through, they usually quit answering, so I wait a week and tell them then that they should be happy with the money, I won't miss it, cause it's a tax write off to me. Some want another go at it and come back in a week or two, the others find someone else to bug I guess.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:25 am

@ yrubraj,

By chance, was that mugu Princess M4ri4m? I didnt tell her I was baiting, but she did that to me today. Never had it before...

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:28 am

Been discussed plenty of times here before, but anyway...

yrubraj wrote:

If we do tell them, then that has the advantage of letting them know there are baiters out there (lots of them) and that each time they scam they may actually be going on a wild goose chase (a very long one sometimes).

Lads send out 1000's emails at a time in their search for victims. Not all of them are sent to baiters. Many, if not the majority of them, reach potential victims. A surprising number of them will then reply. That's why the scammers keep doing what they do.

yrubraj wrote:

Surely this might put some of them off baiting, or at least make them think twice about it, if this kind of thing happens almost all the time they're baiting.

No. Lads are too lazy to get real jobs. Beside which, there are more than enough gullible/innocent/greedy people out there who fall victim, making scamming a worthwhile 'occupation' for these bastards. There are very few poor scammers.

yrubraj wrote:

On the down side of telling them there is the potential to spoil other people's fun as a scammer may twig that perhaps that other guy he's talking to isn't real either.

Exactly. Which then sends the scammer off to look for real victims, which is he very likely to find. Making you a "bad citizen".

yrubraj wrote:

I have to say that I'm probably in favour of telling them, simply because it seems to fulfil the "good citizen" side of scam-baiting

The good citizen side of baiting is keeping these assholes too occupied to have the time to find or carry on with real victims. And if we can get them beaten, stranded in some flea infested war zone or the best outcome of all, arrested, then that's the icing on the cake.

Master Baiter Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 109

I doubt that many scammers read to the end of burn mails anyway. If there's a hint in the subject they might not read any of it.

I tend to think that although it's satisfying to you to let it all out, or to "win the argument" by telling them, they'll be pissed off for the time it takes to reply then they'll move to the next victim who has supplied a MTCN and suddenly forget.

Mad4Maya wrote:

I also saw an estimate that in 2006 there was 3 billion sent from the USA

I read somewhere that the average sent from a USA victim is $17,000 before they give up or run out of cash.
If both figures are about right, that comes to 176,470 victims a year or 483 an hour, which seems feasible.

*** BANNED *** Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 140

It may be justifiable to do so at the end of a gang bait or mass bait, but not in the course of a normal, individual bait which most likely gets lots in their daily activities.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:53 am

I've been contemplating something similar, but then not similar.

What I've been thinking is once you get the the end of a bait that included trophies like Tattoos or Church of M1lk and H0ney Induction photos, you could pay for them to be posted in the scammers local newspaper, with a story about how stupid he was.

I think being ridiculed by his peers is the only way a scammer is ever really going to stop...

Of course I haven't figured out any of the finer details of this idea, because I am an ideas man, not a finer points man...

Cheers,
fun2scam

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:54 am

I believe the consensus is not to tell them. I don�t see any reason to other then it�s funny. Personally, I find it funny not to tell them. I know there are some members (maybe even a mod) who think it�s a good thing to tell them have been baited.

I don�t think telling a lad he had been baited will make him learn anything. If you tell him he had been baited he will think there was nothing wrong with his script/scam/modality as you were never serious to begin with.

As a rule, I would never tell them if I had used Mcd�s site as it burns the site. Not to mention the site owner requested us not to tell the lad he had be baited if we use his site.

Personally I think telling them will do more harm then good. But whether you tell them or not they will just keep doing what they do.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:10 am

fun2scam wrote:

I think being ridiculed by his peers is the only way a scammer is ever really going to stop...

Nope. That only makes him try harder to win gain face again, which if he is bothered by being rediculed he will do quitely or move to another cafe. The only gaurantee that a scammer will cease and desist follows burial.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:13 am

FiveForces wrote:

@ yrubraj,

By chance, was that mugu Princess M4ri4m? I didnt tell her I was baiting, but she did that to me today. Never had it before...

No it wasn't. It came at the end of the bait I published here:

http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114459

I guess she either sent out a mass of emails to every address she could find, or she sent out that email to everyone she'd been in contact with - regardless of how it had turned out.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:17 am

Mad4Maya wrote:

I also saw an estimate that in 2006 there was 3 billion sent from the USA. That's translates into lots of victims.

Nah, the Americans were pinched on Ebay. Wink

(sigh) Put me down for not telling them, despite my love for the endgame tantrums I've admired in so many siggys here.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:35 am

NEVER TELL. PERIOD. If you do, then you are just in it for yourself. And it means that your ego is so fragile that it needs to feel superior over someone. You are never going to feel some big rush of satisfaction by telling. If you do, then you just educated a scammer and made him better. The sad truth is that no one in law enforcement cares enough or has enough working brain cells to actually go after these scammers. Look at that "To catch a predator" Dumbass Chris Hansen. When He went into Africa with the trail closing in on real scammers with radio trackers, He messed it up by shooting his mouth off in town and the scammers had time to get the equipment back into the customs office.

Just like every stupid cop show on TV where they "Confront the Criminal with the Evidence" until they give it up and confess. THAT NEVER WORKS IN REAL LIFE. What really works is BEFRIEND AND BETRAY.

You have to excersise SELF CONTROL.

NEVER TELL !

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

Agreed with the consensus above.

As a "watcher" of these baits, as much as it would be "fun" to see a response when you tell some prat that he tattoo'd himself for nothing . . . built a pyramid . . . all of that, it merely educates them.

Besides, as others note, doubt this "stops" them, so you lose the chance to "rebait" them later on, which only gives the lad more opportunity to successfully scam a victim.

--J.D.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:49 am

This is a discussion that has come up many times, but it really does remind me how much baiting has evolved in the past four years since I got into it. Some things that were commonly done in that time (e.g. cash baiting) are now frowned upon. and for good reason. The community has grown and matured, and along with it our baiting modalities have also matured. The really great baits happening today are so much better than anything we could have imagined then that I can't believe we're only talking about a few year's time difference.

I originally got hooked on scamorama.com. I laughed for a week reading the baits on the site and said "I can do that!" And I did. It took a bit to get a good bait going but I played it for laughs -- for publication -- and I took glee in rubbing the lad's face in the fact that I'd baited him. I still think it's a funny bait, but when I look at it on scamorama now I wince. I'd never do it the same way today. I ran it to conclusion way too quickly, and then played the "GOTCHA!" card. I blew a chance to really ride that miserable bastard instead of just having a cheap laugh. Oh well, it was a decent start if not a great bait.

My baits today wouldn't make great reading but they cause vastly more lad pain. I would NEVER openly burn a lad at the end again. It's so much better to let them stew in agony over 'the one that got away.'

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:03 am

I brought up the topic largely because I think it is a good point of debate for baiters, and it's interesting to see that everyone so far recommends not telling the scammers what we've been doing to them. While the topic has been mentioned before, I couldn't find it in any of the more recent pages and didn't really want to go necro an old thread.

Anyway, I have been convinced not to tell by all this. Largely because I agree that it probably hooks the scammer on to looking out for batiers, and then being able to distinguish between real victims and baiters. So many times I think to myself "surely a real victim wouldn't be saying the shit I am", but the lad still falls for it, and I guess that's largely because he's unaware of baiters. If he was more aware then he'd recognise us when we didn't get hugely excited about winning lotteries but rather just said "what next buddy?"

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 766

^^^^Good thing to revisit. Believe me, the temptation to "Nyah! Nyah!" must be severe.

More effective to let them stew.

The whole Third Anniversary Safari bait is wonderful--imagine if 3d was told "LOL U got PWN3D" one or two years ago! He might be successfully scamming, and he certainly would not be in Singapore!

--J.D.

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