Block African IPs

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Wannabe Baiter Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 95

I just come here for entertainment, but maybe you could get shiver to look into blocking African IP networks from accessing the webserver? Then things like this [lads finding items on Eater] might not happen, I'd really hate to see that thread [the Mr Cucumb3r one] end before he makes a trip for the Astin-Martin.

If you need help identifying networks, let me know. ...and yeah, they could still work around it by using remote proxy sites like proxify.com or whatever, but it would make it a bit harder for them to find the material here. Most aren't that savvy with internet tools, beyond email and web browsers.

Mod Edit: This topic split from The Mr Cucumb3r T@mal3 saga thread as the OP has opened a whole new can of worms. [BB]

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:20 am

@Capricio

Lads don't just scam Europeans/Americans etc. I know of many examples where they try and scam africans. Blocking that IP range would mean that a whole swathe of potential vics would be denied access to this site.

Lads don't come here to often. They have to pay for their internet time by the minute/hour and can't waste their money on frivolities outside of their scamming activies.

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:31 am

AFAIK there are also some active African baiters here.

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:52 am

capricio wrote:

maybe you could get shiver to look into blocking African IP networks from accessing the webserver?

Doing so would block some of our most valued members, whilst allowing the multitude of scammers in London, Holland, USA, Spain, Germany, Russia, Romania... (do I need to go on?) to freely access this site and continue to rumble those baiting them.

As MM said, 419 scammers will target absolutely anyone in any country. The main goal of this site is education, spreading the word about 419 scams as far and as wide as possible, and we should keep that goal firmly in mind. There is no bait worth denying innocent people the information that this site provides.

That said, it doesn't surprise me that the folks involved in this bait [The Mr Cucumb3r T@mal3 saga] have chosen to communicate via PM for now. I'm fairly sure that there will be more to the story soon enough. Wink

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:55 am

well said!

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:13 am

capricio <--

Why? Do you think all web users from Africa are scammers? Or is it because ... I donno ... just trying to get at the logic behind your sweeping stetement: "Block African IPs".

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:50 am

I don't think Capricio has been intentionally stupid or malevolent, Zorro.

To somebody who doesn't know a lot about scambaiting, it may seem that all scams originate in Africa and obviously, if that's the case, by blocking the African IP, the scammers won't be able to get through. Capricio just seems to have forgotten that scammers and baiters come from all over the world.

It's a well meaning idea but not well researched. I don't see any sinister motive in it at all and the other guys here have explained what the problem with his idea is.

Wannabe Baiter Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 95

Zorro wrote:

capricio <--

Why? Do you think all web users from Africa are scammers? Or is it because ... I donno ... just trying to get at the logic behind your sweeping stetement: "Block African IPs".

Zorro,

Calm down. I'm neither a racist nor an elitist of some kind. The fact is, the name of the site, "419eater", references Nigerian law. At least 80% of the baits are centered on Nigerian or Ghanaen scammers. Similarly, at least 90% of the victims that post here are from North America or Europe. This site uses the english language predominantly. Africans scamming Africans would very likely do so in a different language, those victims might not even speak english.

The site admins can do whatever they want, and I know most of the posters make an effort to mask key names/items/places from search engine web crawlers. The site's stated mission isn't just to inform people, but also to collaborate on diverting as much of a scammers time, energy, and resources from vulnerable targets. When scammers find they have been baited on the website, it defeats the latter objective.

It's a calculated cost/benefit decision on whether or not whether or not blocking Nigerian or Ghanaen networks access to this site benefits (IMHO) a very small set of internet fraud victims from those countries or a potentially large set of internet con-men from those countries. The amount of wealth there vs overseas dictates what the overall trend will be, as will the lack of law enforcement for internet crimes over there. These are not "sweeping generalizations" or statements, these are just facts and trends that are hard to ignore or deny. Obviously I realize not "all" scammers are from Africa, and we are not dealing in absolutes.

If the site admins disagree and decide to keep it accessible to all the internet cafes in Nigeria, that's fine. I just hoped to present the idea as a option they can take or leave. I also hate to see such an elaborate bait go down the tubes in an instant. You can get off your high-horse now. Smile

PS: At a very minimum, we could very easily identify smaller subnets used by scammers from internet cafes in the past, regardless of continent/country, and compile an active block-list. I'd fail to see the harm in that, other than a bit more work for the admins.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

This has idea has been suggested before (several times, actually).

Ultimately it won't accomplish anything other than blocking people who aren't scammers from Eater.

Lads do occasionally find their way here. When they do they are spotted by staff at signup or give themselves away within two posts. Trolls are more of a problem to these forums than lads.

As for ruining an ongoing bait because a lad googles his name, well, tough. Either use the 'mask' feature to hide the lad's name/email addy or don't bother posting ongoing baits.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:05 am

It wouldn't work, anyway.

Alot of the lads use satellite connections to ISPs in countries like Turkey and Israel. I suppose it is cheaper and more reliable than connecting to a local ISP. You would have to block all of those too, and that could end up getting messy.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:55 am

capricio wrote:

I'm neither a racist nor an elitist of some kind.

Oh well, if you say that your "Block African IP's" comment is not because you're racist or elitist, I guess I believe you.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:17 am

Besides all of the above, there's no harm in scammers seeing this site.

It makes them far more wary that their next victim is a baiter and more likely to put the victim off by demanding extraordinary things.

If you don't want a lad to see what you're posting about them just obfuscate their name or don't post their name at all.

There is no way a lad has time to go through all these threads looking for posts about them every single day. I mean, honestly, I struggle to get through half of them, even if I dedicate an hour to it.

And if they DO have time to go through all these threads, great, they've wasted soooo much time they could have spent on a victim.

Bottom line is that if they can't google their name they won't spend hours on this board looking to see if an email they wrote has been reproduced here. And even if by some remote chance they did, all it would serve to do would make them question then next victim they try to scam.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 18313

I don't always "disguise" the lads names when I post, in case a victim was to google their name. I assumed the likelihood of a potential victim googling it was higher than a lad googling their own. What do you all think?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:46 am

Its really up to you, Ima. If you want the lad's name to be googleable (is too a word), then post in "Main Scambaiting". If you don't, post in "Help, Hints, & Tips", which is behind the log in and beyond the google-bots. Potential vics DO sometimes google their lads and wind up here, even if they don't post about it.

The plain fact is that it is fairly rare for a baiter to be rumbled this way. When it happens, the bait is usually very involved or a mass bait and has been posted in Main or Publish Your Work.

@capricio & zorro- We're here to fight the lads, not each other. As TSnerd said, this idea has been presented before.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:56 am

Wasn�t this topic slip from another thread? If so wouldn�t the mod choose the title name and not capriccio?

@zorro cut him a little slack, he�s new. He was just making a suggestion.

@ capriccio saying things like �clam down� and �get off you high horse� to other members is not a way to make friends after only a few posts,

Oh and what SF said.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:05 am

@ Ghost:

Nice work! :nodo: Thumbs up

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:15 am

Always Glad to help Very Happy

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:10 am

What is the actual email addy for Mr Cucumb3r T@mal3 saga?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:05 am

Ima^

During what was my longest bait so far--13 months--I had a mugu trophy photo posted after a mere 6 weeks. The op was always there for The Lad to google his nom-de-bait----as I did!-- and he would have easily seen what I was up to. But he didn't, and it always amazed me. He never learned of it until I was done with him and told him so.

As smart as the mugus think they are on covering all the small technical angles, they are breath-takingly stupid when it comes to the major basic stuff.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:13 am

How about changing this forum so it's also under a login like the rest?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:16 am

If we put the whole Board behind a login there would be little for anyone to see that would attract them to Eater.

We DON'T have a problem, so no fix is needed.
If you don't want someone to see anything in particular then don't post it in an open Forum. That should be easy enough to understand. Smile

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

We had that debate back in February in this thread:
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=807415

Cliff Notes version: Potential victims (or baiters) being able to find us, their lads, and/or the scam that they are targeted by is far more important than protecting a baiter's bait.

Hope that clarifies a bit. Very Happy

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:30 am

capricio wrote:

You can get off your high-horse now.

Try crashing into an old-established Hells Angels chapter meeting to inform them about the advantages of modern water-cooled japanese twin engines.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:41 am

/\/\ [ot] According to Sonny Barger's book (he founded the Hell's Angels), the Angels are not allowed to smoke in their meetings. In the 60's they were just asked not to turn up tripping.

At the Bulldog Bash a couple of years ago, he was stood near the Thai food queue, while he sent an underling to push in for him. Hayley said that yes she did mind, actually - i was mortified but proud.

Barger has said he regrets their Harley only policy, but they do still stick to it.
[/ot]

As for the Moses thread, I could have kept it a secret until it was over, but it went on for months, and if it gets people interested in baiting, the risk of discovery is worth it, I see it as a 'fun' bait (except for the lad). You can only go so far to be Google proof in a 20 page thread.

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:47 am

Roycropper wrote:

...a 'fun' bait (except for the lad)...

Vera, I'm sure that the lad had his share of fun too. Well, in a painful sort of way.