What about a forum for victims?

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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:52 am

I'm so sorry, I looked for this information but didn't see it, so thought there might not be a listing. The disclaimer on each scam quite rightly reminds the reader that many people have lost not only money, but much much more as a result of these scams. I know the focus of this site is scambaiting, but would it be possible to add a section to the site, or to the forum perhaps, where people can either discuss their experiences, or experiences they have heard about where people have been victimised? It might help the reader to see the nitty gritty, to hear what the scambaiters probably hear quite often. The victims can of course remain anonymous. Or would this be too dark, you think?

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:33 am

We don't have a Victim Forum on Eater because their needs are well catered for elsewhere.
We prefer to devote our energy to our specialised subject, scambaiting.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:34 pm

I don't think there's much we could put on this forum that would be "too dark" given the overall subject matter! I just think it's unnecessary. I think most people who get into scambaiting know pretty well how many people are hurt by scams...that's why we do it.

I see a thread every now and then about some victim that got into the press. Good occasional reminder why we do this.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:56 pm

Some of us are involved with forums that deal with the victims of scammers. Both the links in my sig are to places for victims and potential victims. We do very little in the way of baiting there. 419eater.com is a baiting community, but that doesn't mean we don't also help the victims of scams elsewhere. I think there has to be a distinction between the two types of forum as mixing the two together could end up watering both down.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:57 pm

I would agree that this is not a victim's forum, but a highly placed link to a place where those that are victims can get help/advice would be good. I would imagine a lot of them end up here when they google their situation.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:19 pm

I would like to see one personally. Plus it would be a place to point ethics posters to.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:00 pm

I think it would be a problem with victims visiting here. The occasional visitor always gets proper advice when asked, but this board is mainly for baiting.

Imagine being robbed off your money, you may feel humiliated and then you visit this board, which is basically about humiliating lads. It may be difficult to take advice from people asking scammers to pose with fish on their head.

I prefer it the way it is. Baiting? This is a very good site for all things related to baiting. Victim support? Scampatrol or ScamvictimsUnited. Boards dedicated to victim support, where people have the time and expertise to deal with scam victims.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:07 pm

True, and I do see what you are saying, but the boards are multi dimensional already, the only thing missing is a victims board. I think if there is a need, and the need could be met, then it should be met. After all, not costing anything is it? If nobody posts to it, then what the hell, delete it after a few months, can't say then that it hasn't been tried.

As an afterthought, if I had been scammed, I would love nothing more than to get my second hand revenge here, at least I would know some fecker is slapping back even if I couldn't.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:59 pm

^That is also why most vics will not make great baiters. Baiting will become too personal.

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:01 pm

persephone wrote:

Imagine being robbed off your money, you may feel humiliated and then you visit this board, which is basically about humiliating lads. It may be difficult to take advice from people asking scammers to pose with fish on their head.

I would generally think that a victim who has just lost a few thousand bucks wouldn't dig the typical scambaiter's irony. Wink

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:02 pm

By "victim", I also mean "potential victim" here.

I'm a firm believer in keeping baiting discussions mostly off of victim support boards and victim support mostly off of baiting boards. For several of the reasons already mentioned and quite a few more.

The entire issue of trying to get a previously uninformed victim who stumbles across a victim support site to realize that 419 exists as an "industry" and how it works is complicated enough without muddying the waters further. It's hard enough to convince a victim that you, the faceless forum poster on the internet who is telling them they're throwing their money away and being "fooled", are any more honest and trustworthy than the faceless email sender who is telling them they get fabulous amounts of money for just a small investment without also tossing in the concept that you regularly tell whoppers via email for laughs. Try explaining the mind-bending concept that by day, you are a friendly victim support person, while by night, you don your cape and tights and tell scammers you belong to a fictional church in a fictional country and you raise Cannibal Tomatoes, or whatever your story is, when the victim is having enough problems grasping that lotteries work because people who actually win them BUY TICKETS. Toss in a possible language/cultural barrier for added fun.

And vice versa, I've seen former victims attempt to bait. It typically ain't pretty. While some can do it successfully, they typically do not have the internet savvy, the anti-scam savvy and the objectivity to do it well. In fact, they often end up engaging in extremely risky behavior and/or really bad baits, largely because they still secretly harbor hopes of getting their money back or getting someone arrested by turning three scripted emails over to police or they rush in unprepared. Or they're just too emotionally close to the situation.

We typically do give good advice to vics who stumble in here, and victim support boards, from what I've seen, tend to gently steer baiters and baiting talk elsewhere. Much as I love this place, I wouldn't really suggest it as a victim's best resource. The two cultures and "feels" are just different. It's difficult enough to keep an exclusively support-based board supportive and welcoming for nervous and fearful victims who are afraid of being "laughed at" by fellow posters for being "stupid". If a victim arrives here and sees what they perceive as people being "made fun of" (even if it's baiters joshing each other, all in good fun, or scammers), that's not a particularly welcoming environment for victim support.

I'm not saying Eater isn't fabulous and welcoming to those who deserve it, but I can see how it would be easy to get the wrong impression from a quick visit, from the victim's point of view.

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:19 pm

Hi mrsbean^

Very eloquently stated above.

I too feel that while I truly empathize with true--and pissed-off---419 victims, this is not the place for them to garner solace or get revenge. Not gonna work. It's a case of apples and oranges. We are here to educate, not coddle.

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