Are we scamming the mugus?

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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:31 am

Actually, I think the reason we should do scam baiting is because they are humans.

If we can convince them that scamming is a waste of time and can lead to humiliation, then perhaps they will start acting human and stop the con-artist games.

If we can get the scammers to give up their chosen occupation we have done them a huge favor.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:35 am

I don't think they can be changed - not unless there is some kind of cultural revolution in Nigeria.

Until that happy day, lads are fair game for ANYTHING, as far as I'm concerned. Steal from them, rob them blind, rip them off, trick them into sending you cash, wreck their plans, screw up their email, send them on safaris, get them wasting time and money, warn their victims, frustrate them, piss them off, make them fake job offers, send them death threats....anything which ruins their sleazy, squalid lives. It's no more than they deserve.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:54 am

Hi, newbie from New Zealand here.

Yeah, its illegal. But is it immoral? I know that I'll definitely try to get some money from the scammer I've started corresponding with. For the thrill of the chase so to speak. But anything I get will go to Canteen, the child cancer charity.

So while two wrongs don't make a right, maybe some good will come of my activities.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:56 am

I don't want to get too involved in this subject again, but my personal belief (and yes, I read the stories, and yes I hate them too) is that there are obvious limits. Everyone should determine what those limits are and stick to them. And but 'sides.... someone has to keep a conscience, right? Even if the mugus will not extend me the courtesy of not cutting my throat, I think that having such strong feelings of hate against them will twist me... and I won't have that happening. Despite the strangeness of some of my posts, I really am a pretty respectable person, as are most of us.

I understand that it is a strong motivation to have these strong feelings against the mugus. I get that part of it. I love to see the energy and I understand the motivations. We are all good people, I think... and outraged by these ashholes.

Better to serve our justice cold and just shut them down. We should throw in some grandstanding for the crowd. The mugus can make a million mistakes and just keep hiding in the shadows. We are in the spotlight, and maybe making one too many mistakes will ... impose costs.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:46 am

Scamming the scammers out of money?

Naah -- I think we're just making them pay for an education; an education that what the scammers do is criminal and unpleasant and there are people in cyberspace who will give up their own free time to try and combat scamming.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:57 am

I think another important difference is that while the lads scam for the money itself, we (or at least the few here who are good enough to pull it off) do it because they can. The money itself doesn't matter. I have a hard time picturing Shiver going for money from the lads just to be able to pay the rent. The money are trophies, just like the photos, audio clips or ties. It's just a measurement of how far you can go with your bait. That is a major difference.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Posts: 24

As a newbie, this question was the first one I thought of once the reality of what was happening actually hit me. Morally, there is an argument for both sides, but IMHO, technically, it is only wrong if there is a law against it and it is only enforcable if someone complains. Can anyone really see a federal DA trying to prosecute a citizen for this? The victim would have to be found and that is extremely unlikely.

The funny part about this baiting (for me anyway) is just how stupid they are to fall for their own scam. They recognize the weakness of character that greed causes in others but cannot see it in themselves.

I look forward to baiting as many as possible and I wont lose a seconds sleep over it. Since I discoved this hobby two days ago, I haven't stopped laughing. My fav is the girl with the patch over her eye with the "Shiver me timbers" sign. ROTFLMAO!

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:25 am

Shadow wrote:

But, I have to wonder if it's wrong on our part. Is it stealing in your opinion?

Another question, are there legal issues with keeping the money or items from them? Since we're pretending to send them money in return for these things, is it technically scamming?

There's noththing technical about it, we're scamming them. In many cases we're saying to them do X and we'll give you Y. We have no intention to give them Y. Even with the pictures we're putting them to expense under false pretences.

I'm not torn, however, bugger them I say. Bugger them with a flagpole covered in itching powder. They'll never be in a position to take legal action against us, they're criminals who knowingly destroying peoples lives and fooling them is funny.

I also feel scambaiting is just. We wastse the time of people seeking to steal from others. The time and resources of theirs that we waste would otherwise be spent seeking to steal from other people. Similarly, the way we ridicule and make fun of them is not wrong as what they do is morally reprehensible.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:44 am

What I want to say to the scammers, through my baiting (and related) activities, is:

"You stop scamming, and I'll stop baiting."

They started it, and as our ever-so-Christian Lads would know: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

Guest

Epistimon wrote:

Make sure you go and read Oz_Baiters link. This scammer got about half of what he asked for, and this girl was telling him she had to sell her baby's clothes, crib, etc, for the rest. He didn't blink an eye just kept on telling her how close they were to closing the nonexistant deal. He couldn't just take what he had, he wanted it all even if it left her without a roof over her head. Not to mention the "barrister" that started asking for gifts. It's like watching a horrible accident in slow motion. You know the carnage is coming but you can't tear yourself away. If you have any doubts you need to read the link.

That was a horrible story. I can't believe that a mugu would do that to a person, let alone a woman with a baby on her own.

I feel that these people are horrible criminals and horrible people (especially after reading that story!). It seems like the things we take from them don't add up to nearly as much as they take from people. They deserve to be stolen from, even if it's tiny amounts like the baiters here have gotten from them.

It's not as much that I feel like it's wrong that we're stealing from them as much as I feel like it's wrong to do the same thing that they do (promising a person something in return for something they never receive). But then again when I think about it, it's the best way to teach them a lesson. Ha, I'd like to know how they feel about being stolen from for once.

Elite Baiter Joined: 03 May 2004 Posts: 1008

About every 5th new person or so will post this question.

It's one of those questions that you have to answer yourself because nobody will ever agree 100%.

I personally find nothing wrong with getting money, clothes or anything from the scammers. Of course everything can be done to an excess though.

Guest

I looked for another thread on it and I couldn't find anything.

I was just curious about what other people thought about this. So far, I've seen a lot of really good answers. It's also made me feel less guilty about baiting the scammers, since I'm new to this. I'm sure most people go through this "guilty phase".

Elite Baiter Joined: 03 May 2004 Posts: 1008

Quote:

I'm new to this. I'm sure most people go through this "guilty phase".

Yes your right. Most people go through a guilty phase or at least question what they are doing, if we didnt we wouldnt be the good guys.

The other posts like this are spread throughout the boards in other topics. It's fairly common, dont feel like you're the first!

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:04 am

You're damn right we are scamming the scammers when we receive money; the only difference is that when they get scammed no-one cares and no-one sympathises because they are getting a taste of their own medicine; so they should love it.

Guest

For me the issue is that how can you condemn them for an activity you are prepared to carry out yourself?

Chris

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:22 am

Yeah... it is not that common a thread, really. The site membership is growing quickly, and, for better or worse, a different kind of baiter is joining the fray. I can't really call any member a mercenary, but I will say that the HARD CORE of baiters are the ones who are responding. They have carried the fight this far and still lead it. They have seen a lot of financial carnage from the scammers and are sick to death of it. They are the vets.

But the next echelon is forming, and it will be a more popular and populated group. People want to join in, but they wonder about the message. They understand the risks, but they have to know that they are fighting the good fight. I think the new members' concerns need to be addressed... well... as they are. Reading the personal accounts of victims is really important. They are scattered here and there. Read one or two and you get angry. Four or five will make you sick. Read six and you start calling your relatives and telling them to get to the cellar and DONT ANSWER THE PHONE!

Let's imagine you are a reporter from the New York Times. What would we say to you? No. We aren't doing this to scam them. We want to waste their resources, humiliate and deter them, and develop countermeasures for all phases of their scamming activities. Anything that a member does, no matter how mundane, is constructive if it serves those goals.

Elite Baiter Joined: 03 May 2004 Posts: 1008

I basically have alot of frustration from work and various other places. Seeing the response from the mugu's or seeing the reactions of people when they find out that they've been scammed just piles on to that. That pushes me to take it out on the scammers.

I also have a creative mind, but its alot of undeveloped talent, i use scambaiting to turn it into a working product.

Another thing is this is just plain my sense of humor. If this forum wasn't around im pretty sure this would be something i would have caught on to myself and just started messing with the poor saps. I'm stuck in a hard place, i have a strong concious but a dark sense of humor. The mugu's satisify both Smile

I say "To each his own" If you want to collect money from them go ahead etc etc.

The great J.Dog once said "I think of it as a writing a book, I just am unable to control one character" That is also the way of thinking I have adapted.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:45 am

chrisreiki wrote:

For me the issue is that how can you condemn them for an activity you are prepared to carry out yourself?

Firstly there is a huge difference in motivation, secondly it is a question of who's starting it. I very much doubt any scambaiter here starts out by sending mass mailings to "african-looking" yahoo-adresses and I would not think that any scambaiter will do this to earn a living either. On a sidenote: I would like to know how many potential victims got warned by either this or another follow scambaiter's site. So apart from being most entertaining sites like 419eater do actually serve a purpose. If nobody else is trying to spread the word or is able to do it as effectively as us - we can! And it does cost money. Ask Shiver.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:56 am

if you are asking how many victims have been warned...

NOT ENOUGH

There will still be victims and for those of you who start to feel sorry for the scammers.. I say a very big FUCK OFF!

I do know that the original question is whether we are scamming but remember this if it wasn't for scambaiters doing what we do by wasting lads time, their own money and whatever.. every facet must be taken into acocunt.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:08 pm

I consider it self defense. If someone holds a gun to your head and threatens to kill you, is it wrong to shoot them first? Is it still murder? Depending on how you look at it, it may or may not be.

I personally believe that when someone approaches you first, with the intent to harm, they lose their right to be a victim.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:16 pm

I was telling my roommate about it, and he and I both agree that scambaiting is probably the most efficient way of ending the problem. Waste their time. Waste their resources. Keep them occupied and paranoid enough to wonder if they're being baited or not. That paranoia will start to seep through into their letters and they will be less effective.

And as far as scammers being people? Yeah, they're people, but they're criminals. If I was changing a tire and saw a big dude trying to take a little old lady's purse, my tire iron and I would have a chat with the dude.

Taking money or property from a scammer is illegal under the letter of the law, but I have no moral objections to it. I personally find it hilarious.

[edit: I really should have more than one cup of coffee before attempting to post.]

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 10

Just remember, they contacted us to try to steal from us. This is their game, they made the rules before they spammed us. The entire purpose of their game is to steal as much from us as they can. If they send Shiver a few dollars-to them it is just a calculated risk in order to steal a bigger lot. I feel if we could get more from them, perhaps it would not be profitable for them to steal. Since that won't happen, I console myself by realizing that any money we could get from them has been stolen from a victim and could be put back to good use.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:48 pm

In order to be effective in using baiting to prevent scamming, you have to tell your lad that you scammed him. Some people don't, I myself am one of them but I may have to rethink that if I want to get the point to the lad that he shouldn't be doing it. If my alias dies off and I don't contact my lad anymore, he has learned nothing.

When I first came on this forum, and started with 2 baits, I started to feel bad for one, I was confused, but vetern baiters told me not to be fooled. After 3 months of baiting now, I have no doubt in my mind they deserve this after seeing the lengths and deceit they use to steal.

Its like you know someone is about to kill you with a gun in their back pocket, you follow them as they have asked, before he wacks you, you grab his arm, swing him around, give him a wedgy, leave him hanging on a fence post, and RUN! LOL

This is a very interesting thread.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:00 pm

I cannot believe anyone has one ounce of remorse for scamming the scammers.

Anyone who reads the link Oz put up about that poor woman in the Netherlands should have nothing but contempt and revulsion for these bastards. They have no conscience, and are morally vacant.

If Shiver or anyone else tweaks $20 or a tie or shirt or something from these fuckers, more power to them. And I would not feel at all compelled to give it to charity. I would buy myself a nice bottle of gin and toast the stupid bastard. Hell, if I were in Holland I'd visit a hash bar with Net access, get good and baked and email the fucko and tell him what a stupid mugu he is.

These people contact US to try and scam us out of our money. They are parasites, and they deserve no consideration, no remorse, no mercy. And while I would personally not do direct physical harm to them, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing one of them in a Thai prison up to his nose in a vat of raw sewage.

Guest

chrisreiki wrote:

For me the issue is that how can you condemn them for an activity you are prepared to carry out yourself?

Difference is I am not seeking random people to scam. I am targetting criminals that seek me out.

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