Ethics, ITP's, definitions of, & what is acceptable thre

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*** BANNED *** Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 2021

Don,t worry JM, i got a STFU earlier but chose to ignore it Laughing

Warden, we are ready

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:23 pm

foss wrote:

And that is the question. My argument is who is to define material. Harm requires a values based analysis, and you need to take into account the values of the ITP, not the values of the baiter when making this judgment. If you cannot effectively do it, then you should exclude the ITP.

And there is where it stops being a community decision, and a becomes a personal one. Everyone must set a moral compass and then live by it. Even if it changes. This board does not set rules about baiting, only guidelines about what can be posted. Cash baiting is frowned on, but no one will stop you. Posting about cash baiting is not permitted here. Are we really talking about what people should post about?

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:24 pm

Hey! I object to the ethics of using STFU. It just ain't right.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:28 pm

Bottom line (once again), don't do anything you are not comfortable with.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:32 pm

Look, I'm sorry about the use of STFU, but I cannot understand why you are complaining about a thread being boring, and you've heard it all before. If people are willing ot post in here still then I am a bit unsure why you deeming it boring should mean that they close it.

If you don;t enjoy it, then using SP's arguement, why read it. i had the courtesy of refrainig to comment in the YMCA thread again.

And, as an aside, just because I am new in here, doesn't make this any more valid. Or are you suggesting that your views are more important than mine?

And JMRazor was good enough to insult me, then when I get annoyed and retaliate he calls me childish. I'm sorry, but last time I looked I thought I was entitled to counter someones insults, and as he requested I PM'd him in return.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:39 pm

Foss

Once posts become personal attacks it's best to take it to pm's. Everybody else may not be interested in an argument going on in the thread. Wink

That's how we do it at eater.......personal stuff goes to pm's.

Good conversation on the other hand is encouraged. However with topics like this, you will never get everybody feeling the same. That's life.

Bottom line, if you're not comfortable with something, don't do it.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:52 pm

^^For the same reasons religion and politics are not typically discussed here. When topics evolve into fundamental philosophical rifts, tempers flair, consensus is never reached, and the net result is to fracture the community. By no means should everyone be expected to nod their heads in unison on every topic, but when impasses are reached, it is often best to agree to disagree and move on.

Thus the numerous (if unappetizing) recipes.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:10 pm

I appreciate this forum for teaching me to bait, but I do not appreciate someone downing my teachers and fellow baiters. BTW, THEY ARE PRO'S!

At one point it is "To each his own."

After my banana split, I will get my purse and leave.

Hugs to all! Pretty Rose

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:55 pm

What I fail to understand is this obsession with pasta. Sure, it's good, and a nice pasta with a good bottle of wine might result in casual sex.... oh, now I understand.

ibtl? please?

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:55 pm

Krona wrote:

What I fail to understand is this obsession with pasta.

If you're not comfortable with pasta, don't eat it. We could however discuss this for a while. Very Happy

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:59 pm

Pasta is best with some fresh IP.

Just be sure to mix it in well so nobody can see it.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:00 pm

I have 2 sorry's to say to Foss.

Sorry I din't understand the question you asked me, you assume they sing in a choir now? I'm confused.

And sorry, this thread was about a particular bait, and now it's not. I didn't notice. But since you know you're arguing a different point, why are you persisting in your persuit of me? You can't defeat my argument with one on a different subject.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:01 pm

Foss wrote:

Can you show me any evidence to suggest that they were doing this instead of working. Or, are you just jumping to the conclusion that these people spend their lives singing in a choir.

I have the proof you seek. They showed up to sing didn't they? Proof enough that they opted to make the performance a pritority. Their own actions demonstrate their willingness to do the performance as opposed to something else at that moment in time. We obviously can't discuss what each one's personal motivation was because we aren't inside their heads. Again I have to say, the lad is the one who recruited them, not SP and in general terms, lads recruit TPs of their own accord, not baiters. In the end, the singers made their own decision to do the song. More importantly, they were not injured in any way by doing the performance. So why are we continuing to discuss such a trivial matter? I'm sorry but hurt feelings because they won't be singing for GWB don't count in my book. Whether all the singers are innocent, a portion are innocent, all are guilty, the fact remains is none suffered any damage from the bait.

I think trying to discuss the issue in nebulous general terms isn't productive. It's better to talk about specific examples and since this bait inspired all this, what's wrong w/ using this bait as the example? Or another actual bait? It's my understanding that everyone agrees we should have established boundaries (ala cashbaiting), but thinking TPs can be avoided alltogether is naive if not dellusional. WU is a TP, we send them there all the time. Should we debate the damage done to the other people waiting in line for who knows how long while the scammer wastes an agent's time for an hour or more trying to collect fake transfers? I'm sure the other customers have better things to do than wait in line while a scammers hog the agents. What about the people waiting to use the computers at the cafes while the scammer sits there all day writing to you?

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:23 pm

Perhaps there are those among us who are just not cut out for baiting, being of too tender-hearted a disposition?? And the others are right, this thread is just going round and round like a snake eating its own tail. It's cutting into potential baiting time.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:05 pm

I've had a distinct lack of decent spam the last couple of days, I'd better put myself about a bit.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:53 pm

lotta wrote:

Foss

Once posts become personal attacks it's best to take it to pm's. Everybody else may not be interested in an argument going on in the thread. Wink

That's how we do it at eater.......personal stuff goes to pm's.

Good conversation on the other hand is encouraged. However with topics like this, you will never get everybody feeling the same. That's life.

Bottom line, if you're not comfortable with something, don't do it.

Cheers Lotta. Unfortunately I didn't realise how it works, and in all honesty I feel that my responses have generally been in response ot other peoples attacks. that being said, I have been in touch with the relevant parties, and hope that its all resolved now.

I didn't expect people to agree, but actually enjoy an intelligent debate from time to time, and generally it doesn't happen enough nowadays. I actually acknowledge other people's points of view on a number of occassions, and respect that they have their own opinions. I think it was Voltaire who said "I disapprove of what you say, but defend to death your right to say it".

@fife

Fair enough. But it doesn't mean it was during work time. Agree on the general nature of the thing, however people were having a go at me because it looked like some kind of personal attack. And, I wish the scammer sat all day writing to me. Wouldn't that be lovely.

@Malleus

Sorry I confused you. I was under the impression that they were a church choir he recruited. Maybe I got that wrong.

No worries about the change in the particular bait target. Refer to my comment to Fife.

I have a feeling that this'll die off pretty soon, because apparently, that is often the way with these sorts of things. Until of course the next iffy bait starts.

Thanks for your input by the way. Much appreciated, and I enjoyed the debate immensely.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:53 pm

If you are noticing less spam, it could be due to this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070531/ap_on_hi_te/spam_arrest

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:11 pm

@ Malleus I have 353 emails in my junk folder, do you want some?

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:33 pm

Thanks for that Foss Very Happy

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:36 pm

Foss, I hope you like our facility.

You probably need a little rest. Wink

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:39 pm

Quote:

often best to agree to disagree

and there endeth the lesson. Good debate though.

@SP no-one has mentioned your finish to the bait. Here's how I see it, FWIW: good bait which yielded extraordinary results. I'm jealous, and if I had a lad that compliant I think I could be tempted to poke him hard with a pointy stick far longer than necessary and I'd be on the receiving end of this debate.
I think the skill involved in getting him to do stuff now is declining, not because your skill is, but because this lad is so well and truly hooked (is he really successful? Hard to believe) and it is less and less satisfying to hear him do stuff.
Why the ending to the bait should make any difference to the ethics of involving ITPs I don't know, but your ending does, for me at least, hold out the satisfaction that the other choir members will channel their disappointment appropriately. And one of my biggest concerns was their attitude to "us" at the end. Sounds like you've got that pretty much covered.

As for some specific points above.. well, we could be here forever going round in circles. Some I think don't get it, some don't want to get it and I'm sure some enjoy a good debate, abstract or not.

For myself, when baiters start off with a lie, which we all do, it's impossible to then take the ethical high grond very successfully. I think what foss and myself have been arguing is where to draw the line. But with a sliding scale everyone will have their own place to draw the line.

Quote:

often best to agree to disagree

I agree

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:48 pm

coronalight wrote:

Foss, I hope you like our facility.

You probably need a little rest. Wink

Cheers mate, but I'm only getting started.

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:56 pm

GordonBennet, not being picky although it may sound it. I wouldn't say that baiters start off with a lie, but rather respond to a lie in the same vein. There is a huge difference.

Good debate, food for thought on both sides.

Excellent bait Laughing

I hope the bossy git gets his come uppance and is chased around the churchyard with woman wielding mouldy kippers.

Baiting Guru Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: UK

GordonBennett wrote:

I think the skill involved in getting him to do stuff now is declining, not because your skill is, but because this lad is so well and truly hooked (is he really successful? Hard to believe) and it is less and less satisfying to hear him do stuff.

I totally agree, it sometimes bores me a bit because it is so easy to get him to do stuff now, he's in so deep that he can't say no to me, what with me being the president, I'm not the sort of person you want to say no to when you have a lot riding on this Laughing

, all I am interested in doing at the moment is getting him to make stuff to use up his money, better he spends it on materials and shipping than in the bar on booze and women Very Happy

, I do have the Brandie character to still bait him through, though, I have to get his naked photos for the final insult, because once GWB has finished with him and he is a destroyed lad, Brandie will not be happy to find out he is a scammer and that he is also engaged to a girl in Lagos, so she might want to let everyone in Lagos see the photos he sent to her, hell, she might even start a blog about him and post the url on Nigerian forums Twisted Evil