Baiting on behalf of a client?

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Forever n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 432

pug wrote:

If you are baiting, you're lying, either implicitly or explicitly. Period. If you don't want to lie, then don't bait.

Perfect summation. You know, someone who has a moral absolute of not utilizing deception would never apply for a position as an undercover officer. Neither would they engage in scambaiting. The two are inherently incompatible. Period.

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 4:34 pm

I am a very ethical person. I have never lied. I just have a problem, I have multiple personalities.
My other characters inside me take over and I don't remember much Laughing

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 4:43 pm

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

am I correctly summarizing what you're thinking?'

See, here is the first big wrong assumption: There is no "we" and there is no clear cut distinction between 419Eater as a community and everyone else on the planet - other than we've all become members of a website called 419Eater at one time we don't have many things in common. Baiters come in all shapes and sizes and they certainly have all sorts of ethical backgrounds. So our common denominator is 419Eater as a platform to exchange ideas. Sometimes we even exchange opinions but if you already have an opinion why would you care what everyone else is thinking on a topic that will resolve no practical purpose for you?

So ethic threads are just like politics, people tend to not agree so we resolve such issues mostly in the shortest possible way: if you don't agree with a certain baiting strategy then don't do it but don't start fruitless discussions with others who find it ok. Again, exchanging ideas on how something is achieved tend to be more entertaining than discussions about if something should be done. Legal questions will become part of the forum rules.

So here's my personal response to your points, everyone else will have different answers.

Quote:

1) A mugu deserves whatever a baiter does to him. It's all ethical. Just don't get caught doing anything illegal.

"A baiter" is a baiter. 419Eater doesn't have rules on how to bait, we only have guidelines on what is acceptable to post and discuss here. It's a message board, not laws and nannying.

Quote:

2) Lying and deceiving and helping others to deceive and allowing others (such as undercover police) to deceive on your behalf are all morally equivalent.

Absolutely. I'd have to invent a religious nutcase to make distinctions between the two.

Quote:

3) Saying (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) "I don't like lying" is equivalent to calling other people liars.

"I don't like lying" is not what you said so noone gave his opinion on that. What you were saying is "I don't lie but try to invent some weird theory that would hold only on my very own planet but allows me to bait anyway." Most posters in this thread seemed to find that rather ridiculous.

Quote:

4) It's okay to deceive mugus. It's not okay to make ethical distinctions between various levels of deception.

a) sure
b) It might be ok but the claim should at least be be intelligent and/or entertaining if it's already challenging what everybody else on 419Eater does. People didn't seem to respond that the ethical distinction shouldn't be discussed, instead I get the impression that they were pointing out that your particular interpretation of said distinction wasn't all that brilliant.

Quote:

5) This guy 4ehgfrsmul thinks he's better than the rest of us because he says he doesn't want to lie.

I don't care what you think or where I am positioned in your moral universe. But when you enter a message board of about 20000 members claiming what everyone does is morally questionable that might answer your question about not being invited for the big group hug right away. Wink

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 6:10 pm

^^That was a good read.

Now I know why the drawers are on your side of the desk. Smile

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:09 pm

thud419 wrote:

it is equally worthwhile to kill fake banks or help victims, and in those activities absolute honesty is an advantage.

Small correction; even in fake bank killing, we do not use our real names or email addresses. Many hosts happily forward our abuse complaints to the lad/vlad whose site or server we are trying to dead, and a few hosts are fully aware of the criminal nature of these sites and cooperate with the scammers.

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:31 pm

Hmmmmm same **** different page

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:01 pm

@Rumbero

Quote:

I have multiple personalities.
My other characters inside me take over and I don't remember much

You are lucky, the voices in my head speak spanish so I don't understand them. Wink

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:13 pm

@B. A. Ware

I would learn Spanish if I were you. They may be plotting to kill you.

No need for the full quote. TS

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:37 pm

^^^^I'm not worried,

I'm pretty sure they just want me to send them $2900 via W.U. Laughing

Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 5:24 am

I cannot help but feel this has been a complete wank by 4ehgfrsmul. There has been nothing of value emerge from this discussion. It has ony served to annoy the cream of our 419ers. That means he has achieved what he set out to do. What was it he was recovering from?

Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:34 am

Well, this looks like it's about over so I'll toss in my two cents and move on.
I don't like to lie and I don't concider myself a lier either but I bait away just fine. Shaddy the begger lad and I send two or three emails a day. I ask him questions about why he does this sort of thing and why can't he try doing an honest days work. He always responds and is always polite. He's never asked if I was a baiter so I've never felt the need to say "oh, by the way I'm a baiter". I've done my job. I've wasted his time.
I have several "personalities" if that's what they're called. Each lad gets the one he deserves. If they don't ask I wont tell and if they do ask then I'll gladly be honest with them and tell, if they will tell me the truth about who and what they are first. But while I am baiting I am not my real self anyway, I am taking on the persona of a charater I have created.
I'd say the biggest lie I tell any of them is "I am interested tell me more" when I respond to the first email. So if I can write that I should be able to deal with anything that comes my way.
Maybe the OP should take a few acting lessons. When I take on a certain personality I am honest about who I am. If I am a drunk man who forgets everything, I stay true to form. If I'm an old deaf lady, ditto. I'm not lieing I'm acting. I am creating charaters who's function is to keep a scammer from capitalizing on an innocent person.
I don't care if I were to say I was the king of Canada, in this realm of my existance, I am the king of Canada. It's not a lie it's my charaters true self.
I would hate to know a person who isn't multifaceted.
As long as you are honest and respectful to those who have earned it then what's the problem? If you don't deserve it, you don't get it. It's all fairly simple really.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 22

If you turn away from the truth long enough, eventually you may not even recognize it. You've been defending yourself from attacks that were never there.

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 4:20 am

^^^Oh, I don't know, I turned away from this thread for a while and it hasn't changed at all.

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 4:26 am

@4ehgfrsmul

I just have a few simple questions

1) What are you on>

2) Where can I get some

3) When I turn away from the truth, if I have a rear-vision mirror can I still know what it looks like and will it slap me if I have mirrors on the tops of my shoes?

5) What happend to question 4?

Thank you, your response has been well noted and understood

Forever n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 432

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

If you turn away from the truth long enough, eventually you may not even recognize it.

I think you've been around here long enough to see what we do. And being the logical, intelligent person that you are, I'm sure you have deduced that baiting involves lying. So tell me, why are you still interested in this place? If debating is something you enjoy, I'm sure there are many more sites that you would feel more welcomed at. Judging from your last comment it really appears that you hold the rest of us in contempt. So I ask again, why are you still here? You don't happen to be related to BiGal do you?

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