I've got one on the line!

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 4

I've got a scammer on the line!

After posting an ad on Craigslist (selling music equipment) I was contacted by a scammer "Mr. Pat Hilton" who wrote me the following email:

Quote:

Hello,
Nice to read from you .. well i am okay with your description of the item and also the price and i will be buying , but i will like to tell you my only method of payment is via certifiled bank check/money order ..and the check will contain my shipper fund .. and once you get the check cleared from your bank .. the esxcess fund on the check will be wire to my shipper via western union money transfer to be able to come over for the pick up at your place ... please if you are okay with this term .. kindly get back to me with your full details that will be on the payment check asap...like this below .............. also get back to me with your last asking price ok

1 your full name
2 your full address
3 your state and your zipcode
your phone number .....

looking forward to hear from you ....

Warm Regards.

My response:

Quote:

Greetings Pat! I look forward to doing business with you!

First, please provide me with the following so that we can get started:

1. Your phone number
2. Best time to call
3. Your first and last name
4. Your full address (including street & number, city, and zip/postal code).

Once we speak in person - to negotiate the final terms - we can move forward with the requested info you need, and then proceed with the transaction which you described in your email)!

I'm sure that you are very much looking forward to owning/playing your new marimba - so please get back to me ASAP so that I can call you!

I have 3 other interested buyers who I am speaking with - so don't delay!

Thanks Pat!

Quote:

Pat - are you still interested?! Please let me know so that I can get you my personal info!

Pat Hilton:

Quote:

Hello John,
thanks for getting back to me, I still interested on it but try and get back to me with your own info.so that the check can be issue by your details.let me read from you asap

So two things:

1. This scammer has my real name (per my email address, since his initial email was vague, I responded and got sucked into a scam discussion using my actual account).

2. Given this - should I be worried, and where can I go from here?

I only found out about this site after getting the emails, and doing some exploring.

I need help from the pros!! Wink

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:42 am

Drop the scammer immediately. You don't need to offer any explanation or get into further discussion with him just drop him. He'll go on to someone else (unfortunately). Evil or Very Mad

You can post his info here and let someone else give him the special attention that he deserves.

Glad you found out before you got too far along. Welcome to Eater Very Happy

EDIT>>> It's a fake check scam.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:09 am

Calm down there little buckaroo.

@agent: With your real information you don't want to do anything radical but he isn't going to hunt you down because you made him answer a few silly questions. I wouldn't ask for a payment and just tell him either you just sold it for much more than he offered, sorry; or would he like to make a counter offer. Then don't answer and see how many emails he sends. But you are limited since your info is out there.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 2:51 am

Sorry Doc,

But I think agentmoosehead should get a second opinion. EVERYONE here preaches the bait safe gospel and you are telling him to take a couple more steps while the lad has real info.

Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree for the following reasons:

1) I assume that agent is not an experienced baiter therefore he may not know how to safely continue.

2) If agent wants to bait him there is nothing stopping him from opening another account and doing it from there.

I do not want to usurp your authority but I could NEVER advise anyone to bait when the mugu knows their real identity. I have done it, but I couldn't advise anyone else to take the same chance.

@agent, IMHO I think you should drop him, then learn the basics and start with a fresh lad. It's not like there is any shortage of them.

Always,
B. A. Ware

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:56 am

I really don't have any authority that can be usurped.

Quote:

2. Given this - should I be worried, and where can I go from here?

I recommended not to panic and hide under the bed. He has not baited the mugu. He has asked questions. No scammer will hunt you down for being difficult to deal with. Should he be worried? No.

Additionally, I did not recommend that agent bait him. I said he is limited on doing much since he is communicating from a real address. He specifically asked if he should be worried and what were his options at this point. I gave him a suggestion on what could be done but also recommended an ending.

I understand why certain members always immediately answer "OMG, DROP HIM IMMEDIATELY and hide under the bed" but it isn't necessity, just remain calm.

There is a difference between preaching safety and understanding what that means.

Forever n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 432

/\ What he said. No need to get alarmed. Mess about with him a bit if you like. Just play it straight. Hell, you could even have him send you a check, then pitch a bitch about it being found out to be fake by the bank.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:12 am

DrWho Said

Quote:

Calm down there little buckaroo.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:40 am

I reitterate,

Quote:

If agent wants to bait him there is nothing stopping him from opening another account and doing it from there.

There is no reason NOT to bait safe here. I have done some unsafe baits but there was always a reason. I made the decision for myself.

This person is asking for the "expertise" of a well known moderator. You have a certain responsibility here.

I have the luxury of saying "go for it". YOU DON"T

Just my opinion.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:17 am

^ The person asked for the advice of a well known Moderator, who gave it, now you're saying the Mod needs counselling on the advice he gives?
There was a previous thread concerning the sale of a chain saw which became a full blow bait, the member is still alive as we speak, and untouched.
As has been said above, nothing wrong with asking questions, pushing up the price, thats just business.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:30 am

B. A. Ware wrote:

EVERYONE here preaches the bait safe gospel

Actually not. If you read such threads carefully you'll see a lot of long-term members not saying anything and a lot of 2-week-members parroting half-understood advice to the new sign-ups. I wouldn't recommend shutting down 200 of your lad's fake bank websites under your real details but sending them the odd abuse or asking silly questions is surely nothing that would make them come your way. Would you believe what kind of responses they get from non-baiters every day?

Anyway, baiting is (or should be) about using your brain. There is no red notebook of baiting, there is no step-by-step guide to picture trophies and there is no hardcore rules for safety every sign-up should abide. Mugus are in it for the money, I very much doubt they will take any risk (and physical violence IS a risk) just because someone sent them a nasty email; they'd actually be pretty occupied.

It's a message board so when asked we will offer opinions, different opinions even. The guidelines state what is acceptable to post and what not.

DrWho wrote:

There is a difference between preaching safety and understanding what that means.

Yep.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:34 am

agentmoosehead--

You obviously made the error of replying back to the mugu from your real-life e-mail addy rather than replying back from a baiting addy. It's understandable, no bad by you.

As suggested above, and IMHO, you do need to end the bait when your real email is involved. No explanations necessary, just do not answer him any more. That will end that bait and any shpilkas you might have.

But save his replies[for future comparisons] and immediately set up a free phony account. Send him a reply in the blind with his basic scam opening letter pasted and edited by you. He will never notice, under your new alias you are just one more potential victim to him. Your chance to start fresh with no worries, mate.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 4

Thanks for all the great info!

You guys are pros! I'm glad I found the site, and as I learn more I'm looking forward to joining the team! Very Happy

I suppose I'll drop this guy for now. Perhaps I'll go with the "higher offer" email and see what he says - just to waste some of his time, but otherwise - given my revealed identity I know my options are limited.

I'm a n00b, so I don't want to make any rookie mistakes.

For the record (and I would never post an email address of a non-criminal without consent) Pat Hilton can be reached here:

[email protected]

Thanks guys!! Wink

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 4

My response to Pat Hilton:

Quote:

Hello Pat,

I hate to do this, but I have had a counter-offer from someone who agreed to pay me DOUBLE what I was asking!!

I'm sure that you understand, despite your interest, that as a business decision - I am obligated to seek the highest value possible for my equipment.

The buyer who contacted me realizes that this is an extremely rare and valuable instrument - so he seems to know a lot about this topic, which I really respect!

Of course (I hate to ask but) if you would care to make a counter-offer - I would consider it before moving forward with this gentleman (since you made the offer first).

The new asking price is $1,200. Please let me know ASAP if you can match or beat that price - as I need to get back to the other buyer right away, as he is very serious about purchasing.

I don't know if you're interested, but I also have some new items for sale. Power tools, a small boat, an antique lamp, a set of VERY nice encyclopedias (Britanica edition), as well as a bunch of other items for sale (gym equipment, furnature, a robot which I am building and is almost complete!). Let me know if there's anything else that you're looking for.

I hope you understand my position, Pat and are not too disapointed about the marimba!

Please get back to me right away!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:29 pm

I'll take the boat and the robot,,, Wink

Baiting Guru Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3193

I bet he replies agreeing to increase his offer. Laughing

(In which case you just say that it's gone.)

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:16 pm

I concede.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 4

Dark Spirit wrote:

I'll take the boat and the robot,,, Wink

thud419 wrote:

I bet he replies agreeing to increase his offer. Laughing

(In which case you just say that it's gone.)

Well, you're right.

Here is is reply, and then my response (am I taking it too far?):

Quote:

Hello John,
Thank for getting back to me,i will buy it in that price$1,200. but try and get back to me with your own full details so that the check can be made as soon as you give me your full datails.okay let me read from you asap

Quote:

Hello Pat,

Wow! I can see that you really do want this marimba, and are a serious buyer!

Please excuse me - before we can finalize anything, I must first check with the other buyer to see if he wants to make a counter-offer. You both seem like serious musicians - and I want to make sure that everyone is happy!

As soon as I hear back from him, I will let you know!

Thank you for your patience, understanding, and willingness to negotiate! I can tell that you are a good person and I hope you understand my position (as I am attempting to raise money to combat an illness which I have been diagnosed with - and the more money I can generate, the more chance I will have for better treatment)! This is why I am so pleased with your offers, and why I must now go back and inform the other interested buyer. I hope you understand that I am not attempting to start a bidding war - I am just attempting to get maximum value for my item for the sake of my health and future.

Thank you for your willingness to help me in my time of need! Please let me know if there are any other items which I mentioned in my last email which you may be interested in, in addition to the marimba. Otherwise, I will contact you as soon as I hear from the other buyer.

Notice how I started segwaying into my 'mystery illness.' I figured that I would try to use a little reverse psychology on Pat Hilton.

Will he see this as an opportunity to take advatage of a potentially sick a despirate man, OR show compassion for a guy who's hard up on his luck?

Time will tell!

Very Happy

Whay do you think his reaction would be if I told him that the other possible buyer is also offering to pay me via Cashier's Check / Western Union?

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:26 pm

He might be able to get a faked cashier's check for you and maybe, just maybe, he could get someone else he is scamming to send you something through Westy, thereby making you wash his money, but he probably won't do the latter.

Forever n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 432

I would tell him "the other buyer has already sent a check, and one for $20,000, just to make sure that he is the high bidder. My only concern is that he is in west Africa and I'm not sure how much it will cost to ship the item there." If you really want to see what kind of scum bag you are dealing with here, tell him that it is your daughter that is suffering from the illness, and that she needs a heart transplant. Without the money to get it taken care of she will die. I'll give you 100 to 1 odds that the bastard will still try to scam you out of the money needed for your daughters heart surgery.

Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 5:40 am

agentmoosehead--

The segue to the 'mystery illness' is always a good reverse-dodge, because The Lads frequently use it as a 'stall tactic' themselves. You can't use malaria, but you can claim 'complications' should the occasion arise for YOU to be hospitalized--and your lawyer/barrister/attorney [YOU] can always deliver the news to the mugu....

The point by me tho' is to use that excuse sparingly---you will discover that when you ignore the lads on their medical woes they usually drop that angle of asking for fast instant cash. They seek money from you to pay medical bills, not the other way around.....You can reveal your medical vulnerabilities as you see fit to do so. Even mention potential heirs..but that is a 2nd-level bait.

If a mugu needs you to wire via WU/MG him/her cash for med bills/hotel ASAP, ('Something suddenly came up', as MarciaB said) you'll know that you are dealing with a lad who is learning the sympathy angle from a higher-up oga. Again, blithely ignore it all. What-ever tale of sadness and immediate need they give you, make no further reference to it. Just ask how the family is, they always respond to that.

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