Baiting on behalf of a client?

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Not quite a Newb Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 22

Has anyone ever successfully played the role of an employee/ assistant/ representative of someone else? That is, instead of "Here is my personal information" it would be "I spoke to my boss and here is his/her personal information."

You see, if I can get someone to let me serve as their agent, I won't have to lie. (I don't like lying). I can honestly say, "Sorry, this is the information or the documents they gave me" or "I'm still waiting for my client to answer my request."

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

Interesting.

So, you won't lie in an active bait, but if you were acting as an intermediary for another baiter and just passing the information given to you, even though you would know it to be false and from a baiter, that would be ok?

Can I suggest you visit aa419.org? They kill fake banks and other sites used by lads in advance fee fraud. There is no lying involved. As a matter of fact, bank killers require that the information in your abuse notifications be as factual and honest as the information available.

This may be more along your needs and you'll still be hurting the lads.

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:53 pm

Everyone has a assistant, even Paris Hilton. Why are any of my baits any different. Lets see, there's the Assistant Pastor, the secretary, the Elder in charge of publications, the treasurer and the Chairman of the Evangelism Committee. Even when it goes smoothly and it never does, it's tough.

In that way some of my characters never have to lie. "No, I did not talk to Pastor about that". "No, we never received any authorization to pay you $10,000".

Not quite a Newb Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 22

I have a background in theater, even street/reality theater, so I'm used to pretending. But I'm in recovery now.

I was thinking of posting an announcement on another board, saying "Ever wonder if those emails you get might really be true? Well, I can check them out for you. Send me your personal information but don't tell me if it's fake or not."

Thanks, Connie, I'm glad to know that being an assistant seems to have worked for you.

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:08 pm

While honesty is a good trait, it won't get you anywhere in baiting. Take chopper read's advice and harden the [expletive deleted] up. You'll have more fun that way.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 22

I keep thinking about aa419.org but they talk mostly about controlled bandwidth vandalism. I know that they shut down fake banks through reporting them, and I may get involved in that.

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:16 pm

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

... controlled bandwidth vandalism ...

Controlled bandwidth vandalism, as you put it, is only a last ditch measure when hosters couldn't give a shit that they're letting criminals pollute the net.

The vast majority of fake banks, couriers, etc. are closed, as you said, by reporting them.

Just ask at www.aa419.org They'll be glad to assist.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

Quote:

but they talk mostly about controlled bandwidth vandalism.

Really?

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:18 pm

Actually, the vast majority of websites killed by aa419 do not involve bandwidth hogging at all. Most sites are taken offline by the host after a proper abuse report with proof of fraudulent activity is sent. In some cases, the domain is repossessed by the registrar for violation of their TOS and fraudulent registration information. The deadly duo are used ONLY in cases where a host has ignored repeated abuse reports and refused to remove a blatantly fraudulent site.

[Edit]- Sheesh! Must type faster Evil or Very Mad

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:46 pm

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

I was thinking of posting an announcement on another board, saying "Ever wonder if those emails you get might really be true? Well, I can check them out for you. Send me your personal information but don't tell me if it's fake or not."

But they are ALL FAKE...there's no money in the box at the security co, no money in the dead guy's vault/account at the bank, you did not win that million dollar internet lottery drawing you seem to win every week, there is no widow/cancer victim/repentant dying rich guy trying to give all their money away to the poor & motherliss baby homes. Why would you potentially give out someone's real info to a scammer?! :yikes:

And why would someone give you their info for you to investigate whether the scam mail is legit? You wouldn't happen to need the client's ssn & mother's maiden name to check out the scam would you? (Sorry, I've been dealing w/ a mugu who is convinced WU is trying to steal his identity, now I'm getting paranoid.)

Seems like baiting isn't a good fit for you, unless you bait with your own real details, which would be insane and probably not that much fun either. Good luck w/ your recovery though.

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:02 am

Interesting system of ethics. Tell me more.

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:48 am

What do you think about the ethics of undercover police?

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 1:01 am

4ehgfrsmul

Maybe this would be a better forum for you: CLICKY

Master Baiter Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 101

i really don't see how scambaiting can be interesting for you if you have such a high moral conviction. you know the people you reply to these ploys are criminals. lying, in this case takes a much lower level to amount of illegal acts they perform. its great your keeping yourself from dishonesty and whatever reasons you have for that must be something important for you. but tricking a scammer to deter him from victims losing their own savings is quite a lot less than lying to someone for another reason. join the game and don't make it a bad thing, your not the one breaking laws doing this, they are

Not quite a Newb Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 22

The basic ethical principle is that everybody should only do what they feel is right. Just because undercover officers fight crime doesn't mean that everybody needs to be an undercover officer. I appreciate your patience with me on this.

I do know of one group of people who are often eager to provide personal information that I would have no problem with sharing. Lads are eager to get easy money, and they are quite earnest about the accuracy of the information they provide about themselves! And they have been known to become interested in scams presented to them by baiters, haven't they? What if I offered to help one of them find untold wealth?

Or how about this idea? Create a mailing list of lads and forward a catcher email address to the list. Or forward a catcher address to an autoresponder that says "Oh yes, my client would like to know more. Here is all his information: [lad's information here] Reply-to: [mailing list address here]"

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:09 am

My head hurts.

Sorry, but I really don't understand what you're getting at.

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:53 am

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

... What if I offered to help one of them find untold wealth? ...

Ok. Then what?

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:08 pm

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

... I won't have to lie. (I don't like lying). I can honestly say...

Sorry if this sounds rude but I was wondering if you wrote this with a straight face

Not quite a Newb Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 22

@kleindoofy

And then, I would use the mugu's information for baiting: "My client Miriam Abacha is interested in investment opportunities. Here is her personal information. What is the next step?"

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:54 pm

Sorry, I don't get it.

Tell me if I'm wrong....

You don't mind lying to mugus, but only if it's in the third person. You don't want to lie to them if you are baiting directly as yourself but obviously not using your real name. So, if you're saying you're someone else and not the original person you're pretending to be then that's ok?

Nope, still don't get it.

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 2:52 pm

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

I do know of one group of people who are often eager to provide personal information that I would have no problem with sharing.

Uh, I don't get it. Shocked

If you know a whole group of people who want to share their real personal info w/ scammers, please tell them DON'T DO IT it's a dumb idea!

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

Lads are eager to get easy money, and they are quite earnest about the accuracy of the information they provide about themselves!

The only thing lads are earnest about is chopping dollas by any means necessary. Take a look at the fake IDs/docs the lads give out and tell us again about their committment to giving out accurate info. Are you working on your comedy routine? We're getting punk'd aren't we, I knew it!! Laughing

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

And they have been known to become interested in scams presented to them by baiters, haven't they? What if I offered to help one of them find untold wealth?

That takes a lot of effort, it's not commonplace to get them offscript off the bat, you have to be patient & wait for the right one w/ that perfect, super special mixture of idiocy and greed that makes him a prime target for YOUR scam. If they're not willing to join your church or whatever right away, you'll have to bait them into doing it...that's right lie to them/trick them/bamboozle them/lead them astray/run them amuck...unless you really do have a church that requires crazy initiation proceedures. Shocked

4ehgfrsmul wrote:

Or how about this idea? Create a mailing list of lads and forward a catcher email address to the list. Or forward a catcher address to an autoresponder that says "Oh yes, my client would like to know more. Here is all his information: [lad's information here] Reply-to: [mailing list address here]"

As long as the auto responder doesn't give out real people's info, why not? If that's your bait, go for it, but don't give out real info!

Sooner or later you're going to either start lying or breaking baiting safety rules. Whatcha gonna do when your lad asks for a scan of your internat'l passport? Give it to him?!?! Tell him you attached it but you really didn't (lie)? Attach a distorted image/junk file & tell him you can see it just fine (lie) or that it must be something wrong w/ ur scanner (lie)? When your lad asks for the WU payment...are you actually going to go down there & make a payment b/c you don't want to lie to the poor lad?!?!?

Maybe you should just focus on your recovery right now, I don't think you're ready for this. And please do not suggest your ideas to other people you know willing to give out real info, all you would be doing is harvesting real victims for your sweet, innocent lads to prey upon.

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:04 pm

it wasn't me wrote:

You don't mind lying to mugus, but only if it's in the third person. You don't want to lie to them if you are baiting directly as yourself but obviously not using your real name. So, if you're saying you're someone else and not the original person you're pretending to be then that's ok?

I'm as confused as you are, but I think what he/she is saying that he doesn't want to bait as himself, he doesn't want to bait under a pseudonym, he wants to have a "client" and bait as the client's representative (??). It would be ok, b/c a real person would have told him it was ok to use their name as the client (??).

If he likes, he can use one of my supporting charachters, ...please try to improve his reputation if you do, mugus don't seem to like Mr. H. Laughing

Baiting Guru Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 11857 Location: UK

Bloody stupid.

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:22 pm

^ Ain't that the truth.

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:44 pm

@4ehgfrsmul - I'm confused as to why you are even considering baiting.

From a previous post you disapprove of 'gloating' and now, it seems, you have a similar ethical problem with lying!

Could I suggest perhaps the Samaritans as an alternative!

[mod edit: duplicate post deleted - KD]

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