Has anyone been brave enough to do a person-to-person meet?

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Hello I'm New here! Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 15

Yes I know that will seem stupid to most of you, but Ive heard of a few people doing it to the UK based scammers, as well as of course Dateline did it to the guy in Switzerland.

Now I dont mean YOU going anywhere (IE I am not suggesting flying to Nigeria to be held for ransom etc) but that would make for one hell of a bait..get enough of your fellow baiters to be your 'business associates' or something.

I cant be the first person to have thought of this..

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:49 pm

Trying this would probably be very bad for you health.
This story: http://www.scamorama.com/flyinglad.html
is supposed to be true but who knows. I certainly wouldnt risk meeting a lad

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:52 pm

Damn it Son! Brave? Stoopid what is, money hungry lads are too unpredictable to risk meeting.

Setting one up for some undercover surveillance?? Now that's a different matter Wink

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:53 pm

Very dangerous.
Even if you have a few guys with you, there's no guarantee that the lad won't be carrying a weapon.
Leave the "meeting" side of things to the law.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:53 pm

It's not a case of being brave, it's a case of whether it serves any useful purpose. The downside is the possibility of being mugged by the scammer and his mates (whatever the meeting arrangements are, the scammer will change them at the last second to suit his own concerns for privacy and security). What is the upside? - none that I can see.

This is definitely not recommended.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 15

Yeah thats what I mean. Like I said I didnt mean you guy to Africa or Russia or wherever, but some hotel or restaurant in Miami or London. From what I can tell alot of them try to play it off like they are lawyers or businessmen....would be awesome to do a kind of dateline thing with em.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:59 pm

There was a recent TV programme about obtaining fake credit cards where they had a reporter wired up and under camera observation and close support.

Even with those resources they lost her and she got bundled into a car. The silence was deafening as they tried to pick up her signal - and the crook had tried to drag the female off somewhere. She was okay after managing to think on her feet, but it could have ended badly.

This is in the UK - trying it somewhere like Nigeria would be crazy. Just because you meet someone doesn't mean they don't have friends unseen, looking out for anything suspicious.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 15

Yeah its too bad almost none of them operate in the US...here we can at least pack heat (legally) for 'back up' but thats not a pretty situation.

Yeah wasnt real serious - the guy they got on Dateline was a pussycat compared to some of the thugs.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:16 pm

Packing heat for back up is not legal in a lot of locations in the US and I would not recommend it even in locations where it is.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 15

Anyway sorry I let it get off topic. Anyone tried the surveillance method before? Ive read stories but not by people from this forum.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:26 pm

@Alan D: I am licensed by two states to carry a concealed weapon (and the permits are recognized by several others), but I did not obtain those licenses for the purposes of meeting criminals.....in fact, I hope that I *never* meet criminals of any kind because I can figure on at least $15K in legal fees if I ever have to fire that weapon, even in self-defense. That's a last resort, period.

I can cause lads plenty of torment with a Gmail account and a K7 number, coupled with my imagination.

Please drop the idea of meeting lads face-to-face, and please do not suggest or encourage in any way to those of us to have permits to consider the possibility.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:35 pm

Quote:

a kind of dateline thing with em.

Yea like being kind of like Rambo or something. Dude, like a video game.

Sorry to make fun but this is real life. Dateline had lots of security standing by and didn't do that with out a lot of planning. You saw the guys come out of the back room after they busted the scam and talked to the scammer. I remember them commenting that "after setting it up with a security company" they ran the bait.

It is not worth the outcome or the cost of a bait to mess with anything like this.

*** BANNED *** Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 2021

I went down to Amsterdam airport a while back to do a bit of videoing and take a few snaps, that lad brought so many mates with him i couldn,t even get the camera out of my bag without them twigging, total waste of time and my car broke down on the way home Sad

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:01 pm

One other thing that I feel I must add:

If you have a concealed weapon permit AND you go to meet some lads AND you have to use your weapon in self-defense, the lad's attorneys in a civil suit (and possibly also the authorities in a criminal complaint) are going to use the argument that you were expecting trouble, and had some premeditation behind your actions. You will have been presumed to be EXPECTING to use the weapon beforehand.

I think in this scenario, a person so charged will be found both criminally and civilly liable.

Master Baiter Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 199

Connie L. Gus wrote:

Packing heat for back up is not legal in a lot of locations in the US and I would not recommend it even in locations where it is.

Its actually legal in most states... and as a professional firearms instructor, I do recommend packing heat wherever you can.

Edit: I also recommend getting GOOD training before you do carry.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:19 pm

^^^^With the current UK laws you wouldn't get away with packing a water pistol Crying or Very sad

Master Baiter Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 199

And violent crime is skyrocketing in the UK too... Rob a person and get a stern lecture... Defend yourself from a criminal attack and go to jail for a long time....

Insanity.

Master Baiter Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 199

Barry Kelly wrote:

. You will have been presumed to be EXPECTING to use the weapon beforehand.

I think in this scenario, a person so charged will be found both criminally and civilly liable.

Untrue. In many states (23 as of last count) are passing "castle doctrine laws". They are sweeping the country. Basicly, if you have a legal right to be where you are, and shoot someone in a justified self defense situation, you can't be charged for the shooting AND the criminal cannot sue you in court.

The law still requires citizens to articulate the ability, opportunity and intent of an attacker to do grave bodily harm to a person exercising his or her right to self-defense.

I am not a lawyer and this does not constitute legal advice.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:15 pm

I'm meeting my lover Ray for a quicky Wink

He's in England helping a poor dying lad and I'm going to meet him for dinner and sexy times.

Oh....hang on a minute....shit.

I forgot. I'll be in Monaco that weekend. Must remember to tell Ray...wouldn't want him to be stood up or anything....

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:50 pm

By packing heat for backup, I mean a concealed weapons carry, and it's still illegal in a lot of places. There are places where its expected and I've been there and done it too. Solo backpacking, flying cross country, eating late night in the 'hood, that sort of thing. I remember right after a girl that I used to double date with was murdered by a serial killer I had a Walter PPK/s eyeballed at a late night food stand by two cops. There are no CW permits issued where I used to live. It would have been a shame to have a piece with serial number 007 confiscated but nothing was said.

I used to think guns were the answer. By the time I was 18, I had fired off over a hundred thousand pistol rounds. I still teach rifle and handgun shooting for the Scouts, and I try to keep the message very simple. Maybe it was because I grew up watching one hour dramas on TV. It seemed that whatever the scenario, the answer was a fast car and a gunfight. This is real life, not a TV show. Guns are not the answer.

I'm still looking for the fast car.

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:52 am

@Mike Hunter: the scenario I described did not envision meeting the lads in one's own house. My state is one of those that has expanded "castle doctrine" and shields legitimate users of self defense from civil prosecution, as you have described.

That being said, if I were a lad's attorney, I would be making the argument that the shooter "planned" to do it and tried to entrap them. It doesn't matter whether or not the self-defender was right or wrong; the self-defender can expect to spend several thousand dollars in legal fees. What they told me when I took the class was that a preliminary hearing will run you $15K in legal fees and a trial might run you $50K, if it goes to that.

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with what you said; I'm merely stating what I would do if I were a lad's attorney. And even though my jurisdiction is a "right to carry" state with a recently expanded "castle doctrine" law, my particular county has a district attorney who is more interested in prosecuting homeowners who exercise their legal rights than she is in prosecuting the intruders who were shot in the first place.

Elite Baiter Joined: 02 Jul 2006 Posts: 1702

I travel a lot and ive only seen 1 but we did not stop or acknowledge the lad we all laughed about it in the safety of a bar far far away - someone decided to send him to an airport i was using pure co-incidence.

Lads are part of organised crime, and as such wont obey the law if you and 2 or 3 friends go up to them and identify yourself in any way. If you were in london the time of the convent garden one you wouldnt have know there was a lad there someone posted about there bait, and with 20,000 members im sure someone may well have passed him too.

If you do accidently see a lad on your travels, and he is holding a sign most people passing will be laughing too just get back and post it, and have your fun safely away from the lad.

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:41 am

There was this incident that took place 2 years ago, and I was pretty clueless that that fellow was our lad, because he was very cultured here

http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41656

This is about as close as I came to a meeting with a scammer.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 15

Barry Kelly - Yes I know. I have my CCL as well. I am not just some idiot thug banger. I know the law. I wasnt suggested people go meet lads just to go cowboy on them, but I do wonder about the guys who DID meet the lads without much thought as to their safety. The state I live in is not yet a 'castle doctrine' state but I believe it will be. They lectured us in class time when i was getting my CCL about not pointing it around, or going around 'gunslinger' style. I rarely keep my peice with me, and I hope I never have to use it. If we can get castle here, like most states the 'victim' and his family cant sue you (Texas law was just changed to add that, they already had castle doctrine but you could get sued before)

Jeez-looeeze you guys dont need to go off on me though// Filming/tricking whatever. The guy who took pics from the airport is good enough. The guys who did the p-p-powerbook did something similar, but after reading a bit more it seems like most come with a posse. I am educated now...remember I am still a noob at the lad game, and I sure as hell wouldnt even do camera shots with the Russians.

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:41 am

I had a meeting with a scammer once.

Contact was established, we exchanged phone numbers (he gave me a local number) and a meeting was setup in the regular way - as a normal business meet would. He wanted to invest in packaging industry where I am at. Now this sector has a lot of promise and I have a small interest there but needed (still need!!) an investor to get things really moving.

I asked for the first meeting in a public place - a hotel lobby or a coffee shop. The guy said that he already had several meets lined up in his hotel apartment suite and would I please meet him the next day at 7 in the evening. The first faint question ... is his reason genuine or does he want to avoid a public joint?

I arrived at the hotel apartment rather early and sat in the lobby killing time. The place seemed to be a proper place, a lot of people moving in and out and some with their families too; people asking for taxis and some cleaning guys leaving for the day. Was I jumping at shadows??

At the dot of 7, I called his room from the lobby. He told me to come right up.

I was greeted by an African gentleman. He was about 35, of medium height and build. And no, he didn't have I am a scammer etched on his forhead. In fact he looked rather friendly, a soft gentle voice and a nice warm smile.

So I walked in and sat down.

Introductions were as they are usually done - how's the weather and the traffic is killing. Stuff like that. He was from DRC.

Then to business. And my alarm bells went crazy - he had US$ 5.5 mil in cash in Singapore and needed to bring them over to where we were and get it into a bank account - MY bank account. He gave me some dollar bills as "sample" and told me to get them checked for authenticity. I told him that the notes were not really necessary but that he should get the cash over first and get it into HIS account and then we could do business. And al the while I'm thinking that this must be my last day and I didn't say goodbye to my wife.

I promised to help him setup his company, show him all the ropes and be his man here at site - he would have to pay me as his local advisor.

He tried to a different line. He said that 15% of that 5.5 mil would be mine if I would do what he wanted - put the money into my account. Top that I said that I'd need to consult my partner and would give him my reply in a day or two.

Then he stressed on the importance of keeping our meeting a secret and that the next time I was to come right up to his suite and not call from the lobby.

End of meet. Thank God. And I was still alive and unharmed.

I think what probably saved me - if he had had any designs that is - was my call to him from the lobby.

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