Contemplations on lads

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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:44 am

I notice that there is a lot of overlap in lads prodded around by scambaiters. In other words, the same lad can be happily baited by several people at the same time. Are baiters only reaching the really stupid ones? What percentage of lads are so gullible as to actually take pictures and videos, and go on safaris? Surely the stories must get around in Lagos of people being baited?

So are we actually making a dent in the 419 world? Or are we only distracting the stupidest 10%? I have had lads identify me as a "stupid goat gmail time waster" after I merely asked them to fill out some innocent security forms, much less pictures or spectacular videos. Of course, most of this is probably due to lack of baiting skills, but filling out forms is a natural lad hobby, and this modality should not be that tough to master. I suspect that the lads that cause the most damage to victims are simply too smart to fall for baiters.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:57 am

Well, the not really stupid ones move out the public eye and get others to work for them, so I suppose you could say that the stupid lads get baited. But most aren't really stupid. They learn to scam and operate computers. Many have some kind of education. You can estimate the percentages as well as anyone. It just isn't known. I doubt the stories get around since they are in business for themselves so why should they tell someone else. We usually don't tell them they were baited so they have nothing to tell their friends except that they lost another one.

If you are being called out for asking for forms then you are probably not preping them correctly. If you think that "filling out forms is a natural lad hobby" then you need to adjust that attitude. I would guess that you bait them by answering some of their questions then telling them you will send the money after they fill out your forms. This is one reason why you get called out. A superior attitude will not work.

No. Every type of lad can be baited. They have the weakness of wanting easy money. You just have to handle it correctly.

You seem frustrated. Try to bait the next lad as a true victim. Just don't follow his instructions and ask for a lot of explanations. Don't ask for any trophies and see how long you can keep him going.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:08 am

Quote:

I doubt the stories get around since they are in business for themselves so why should they tell someone else. We usually don't tell them they were baited so they have nothing to tell their friends except that they lost another one.

The way I figured the stories get around is one of several indirect ways. For instance, one lad could brag to another lad in confidence: "I have a mugu dropping off cash in the Tamale airport. Once I get back, I am set for life.", and then coming back to the internet cafe looking sad. Another way is that the baited lad could take another lad on a safari for security, get nothing, and then the other lad will tell everyone at the cafe what a fool the baited lad was. Eventually, the safaris will come out one way or another.

The way I generally bait is like this 1) I went to WU office; 2) They told me that I can't send money because of anti-terrorism legislation. I was very angry; 3) Here are anti-terrorist forms they are making you fill out. Blame WU.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:46 am

I beleive your assumption to be very wrong.

First of all; stupidity is not the only factor that decides whether or not a lad is going to do work for a baiter. Sometimes lads will bail out on a bait simply because they are just too lazy to do what the baiter asks them to do. They may prefer sitting at a computer pasting email replies rather than having to go out and make arrangments to make signs and take pictures. 419ers are the lazy scumbags of society. They don't want to do work. They want to be lazy and make easy money stealing from people.

Many times it is the most ambitious and persistent lads who are the best pets for baiters. Whether they are smart or stupid does not matter as much as how far they are actually willing to go in order to pull off the scam.

I actually beleive that majority of trophy baited lads are smarter than the lads who avoid being trophy baited. The reason I beleive that is because of the way in which the trophy modalities are setup. Those modalities are targeting lads who are willing to try something new. The new modality will likely be harder for the lad to pull off then any typical next of kin scam, but the lad is still willing to try it. The modalities require that the lad is smart enough to see the letter as an opportunity to think outside the box and play a new character. I think it is more likely to be the smart lads who are responding to the trophy baiter modalities.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:53 am

Quote:

The way I generally bait is like this 1)..... Here are anti-terrorist forms they are making you fill out. Blame WU.

That is the same modality that many other strait baiters use. Maybe your lad refused to fill out the forms because he has already done it 50 times before. They will catch on eventually.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:10 am

Quote:

Here are anti-terrorist forms they are making you fill out. Blame WU.

See. You send the forms and blame WU. Lads work with WU all the time, they know how WU works. They know there are no forms from WU. The lad has to want to fill out the forms. I used my bank as the bad guy for the quotes in my signature lines. My bank would not forward the money until they had proof for the FBI, who was checking large amounts of money leaving the country. Lads don't know how the bank works. I was powerless to do anything about the demands the bank placed on me. I was very sorry for the lad. What else could I do but forward the forms? But the lad had to ask me to send them.

On the negative side, I once ask for a minister for simple picture to show my congregation how bad conditions were there so I could raise more money for him. He ask me why everyone kept asking for picture and cursed me. Rolling Eyes

So it goes, sometimes your the bat and sometimes your the ball.

Lads don't bring a friend for security. Just one other person to share the money with. If they don't get the money, you think they will tell everyone how they were fooled?

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:42 am

I've had the same thoughts. How many times will a lad fill out forms or 1tv5 before they figure out it's not going to work? (I know it's at least 19 for my pet...)

I wonder how long until a significant percentage have had experience with the typical baiter responses though... a lot probably have already. I guess the only real solution is to keep coming up with new attack avenues.

My personal "want to do" would be a mass emailer/processor. Taking up the time of a dozen lads, or two dozen is all well and good.. but imagine a program that could do 100 at once. Or 1000.

Imagine that if for every spam mail lads sent you, they received 3 responses to their main catcher addresses? Now THAT would have an effect.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:13 am

Quote:

Surely the stories must get around in Lagos of people being baited?

I liken the lads to gambling addicts. They always brag to others about their successes, but never about their losses. That cannot do anything but help our cause. Kerching! I've got a nudge!

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:21 am

My 2 pesos ...

I don't really think there's any way of knowing how effective efforts like ours really are. And maybe it's not important to know either ... we do it becuse it DOES make a difference, however small, and because we find it fun.

And to to digress a bit, because I sense a sense of frustration in what you've written, consider that out of ... mmm ... say 10 lads that you asem or repond, maybe 4 or 5 will prgress to the 2nd week and maybe just 2 or 3 into the fourth. Finally, at the end of the month, there maybe just one mug still tugging.

That's what happens to me at least. As against that, we have the masters make it look so easy.

Western Union · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:29 am

The suggestion that all lads baiters encounter are stupid is a myth. If that was the case then the trophy room would be overflowing with pictures obtained by everybody and their grandma. Sometimes you will get lucky, but mostly getting someone to make a video, send a photograph or go on safari takes a lot of cunning, skill and patience.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:52 am

Maybe all lads aren't stupid, but the buggers I seem to hook are. They have difficulty following the simplest of instructions. Twisted Evil

But on the other hand, all of my lads can write English - something that does require intelligence. To that degree, they're actually smarter than me as I cannot converse in thier language.

I also guess that lad intelligence doesn't always come shining through because it is often overwhelmed by greed. The lad may be really smart but if the carrot is big enough, he may end up doing something that can be classed as stupid.

I've got one at the moment who is acting dumber than dishwater. I've had him running around all over the place, taking photos, filling out forms and making phone calls. I don't reckon this is necessarily because he is stupid and I hope it's because I've run a good bait so far and have just blinded his normal intelligence with the promise of a big payday.

And you can also put yourself in the lad's shoes. Imagine that a new type of scam came out. One totally different, original and well thought out compared to what we are used to seeing. Do you think that there is any chance that you may be fooled by it? Even for a few minutes? I'm sure that for a few of us who do consider ourselves to be intelligent, the answer is yes. Even the smartest of us may fall for it. In the same vein, when we bait our lads, we try to come up with that original counter-scam that has never been tried before, so is it really that unbelievable that a "smart" lad may fall for it?

So my view on this question is that if the promises of reward are big enough and sold cleverly enough, it doesn't matter how smart your lad is - the chances are that he will go for it.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:44 am

alphonse--

You are setting yourself up for instant lad-ignoral by using WU so early in your baits. And that as the ultimate definitive answer. It takes time and planning to frustrate them. Get to know more about them and their family and be sure to ask questions when they leave you hanging.

Tell them long and boring tales about YOUR family. Your daughter working at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch brothel in Nevada. Your wife taking up the crack pipe. Your son arrested on '5-counts of frequency'. Your other gay son who is a Goth. Your bunions...Cat scratch fever..

So far as the '10%'---if we posit conservatively that say 3,000 hard-core mugus ply their scam-craft in about 6 or 7 countries 24/7--that's 300 we are working on at any given time. Enough on the variables tho'--if even 1 mugu is played along it's 1 less real victim. And that is what matters most.

My guess is that when a Lad gets nuked they keep silent about it for the most part. Can only figure that it's a shameful thing among the guymen. Pride is everything to them--that and not looking like a fool for having spent $ at the Net Cafe on a long lost cause. You can't reach 'oga' status if you are easily taken in too.

As my peers indicated above^^^--with all due respect you need to re-think your approach to the lads. Don't put yourself into an inescapable corner so fast. Think 2-3 steps ahead of them. Hope this helps.

cheerz---jervis tetch--mad hatter (for the family)

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:02 pm

I'm blaming the Canadian Government for introducing the forms.

http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newspapernm9.jpg

The Government has been slow in getting the forms printed and distributed so he hasn't had the opportunity of filling them in as yet. This has given me plenty of time to explain that if he doesn't, then no MTCN. He really really wants that MTCN so I'm hopeful of success.

He sent me an mail explaining that he was an honest businessman and unlike the others. So I think that he's beginning to understand.

I don't believe that lads are dumb. It's just that they are lazy, greedy and don't understand how western societies work. It's this plus poor English language skills that make them appear dumb.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:12 pm

as for me, at this time I don't care if I get forms filled in or trphies, if my bait only last two or three mails or a month I look at it this way 1. I'm learning what works and don't work, 2. I'm having fun and 3. even if it only a little bit I'm still wasting some of their time that they could use on a real victim. So I'll just kepp plugigin away.

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:04 pm

^^ i agree - it looks like I just got dropped in my first attempt at baiting and it sucks cause i never got to the good part. Actually I doubt that I really wasted much of their time or got them much annoyed. However, I now know that I want to keep trying to bait and have learned a good deal. It went on for over 2 weeks and about 1 or 2 e-mails a day from them which is 1 or 2 that they could have been sending to a real vic.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:20 am

Hi budanzig (alice)--

It's a learning process as you go along. If you keep at it, you will find out how to keep them on the hook beyond 2 weeks by prior mistakes and twigs. It all depends on how they perceive you, and that is all they have to go on. I aim for at least 2 months baiting with some lads now rather than days or weeks because I'm thinking 2-3 steps ahead of them. Like The Lads, I too follow my own basic script on most baits now.

Every newbie baiter makes mistakes at first. Stay with it and if it all goes down the toilet just move on to the next one. Lose no sleep over it.

I admire that you instantly get the primary purpose--to keep them off real potential victims.

cheerz--jervis tetch

*** BANNED *** Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 140

Intelligence is not a function of knowledge but a function of mental acuity and mental speed (I know it's more than that, but I'm simplifying here). From this criterion, many lads have the intelligence of a turnip cart. On the other hand, others have pretty decent intelligence.

Criminals as a whole are not known for their sparkling intelligence, so you have to keep that in mind.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:48 am

It took me a while to learn that you have to groom, finesse and generally schmooze your lads into believing you are a gullible, eager victim. It takes time and patience and it's often a very gentle process. Asking them to fill in forms or pose with a loaf of bread on their head on your 3rd email is going to scare them off quicker than anything. Baiting is a very subtle psychological game of cat and mouse - that's part of the enjoyment (for me at least). Also, you have remember that lads are solely motivated by greed so you have to keep tantalising them with the knowledge that you are willing to send it... later.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:06 am

gnasher^^^

You're a UK denizen. . 'Schmooze' is Yiddish, but the 'tantaliSing' gave it away. [Not that they are mutually exclusive]. It's 'tantaliZing' here across the pond in the colonies. Great reply there. Keep up the great work and acumen.

cheerz---jervis

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:27 pm

^^^^ Born and bred in the UK, more recently an Aussie and proud of it Laughing

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:11 pm

I think if the 'lads' catch on that theres more than one face behind the person baiting them they'll take it more seriously to warn others, but if they think theyve had a chance encounter with someone able to catch on to their tricks and make fun of them they won't tell because all it is is embarassment....But I think given their numbers, that no matter how seperate they seem they do catch on...Like those all working in a net cafe. Maybe one will bring up that he sees a site like this and others there will mention how theyve seen the same...seen the same emails to make them miserable....so maybe there are large numbers catching on, only theres a lot more in other parts not even noticing and becoming victims to these lines....just my opinion

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:06 pm

I am sure most lads, or at least the more experienced ones, know perfectly well about scambaiting. Unfortunately there are a lot more victims and potential victims out there than there are baiters so they regard it as an occupational hazard, especially as the rewards of finding a real victim far outweigh the costs of dealing with a baiter. Another good reason to continue to bait as many as possible.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:07 pm

^^^ And another good argument for straight baiting. Take it upon yourself to fall into the character of a real gullible victim, and string them along. It took me over a year to get my first trophy. It was nice, but I'd rather just keep them going and wasting their time. My baits are rather boring, but I know I'm wasting time they could be spending elsewhere. If I need a good laugh, I turn to the real masters work, and the halls of shame, and the trophy room.

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:18 pm

A good baiter will contact a lad, mess with him to the max and leave him wondering what went wrong when he finally walks away. Forget trophies or whatnot, THAT is the true sign of a master baiter. A true baiter can screw with a lad and still have him convinced he had a real live vic slip through his hands.

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:09 am

^^^^ Hi wayne,

About only 20% of my baits have a trophy in mind. And then only when I use a specific script of my own.

I do indeed go for the straight bait by far. It's more satisfying to keep them hanging with empty promises and then just sort of fade away. Or give them a deadline to get here to the USA within 90 days to collect the huge inheritance I promise them on some baits . Also leaves the door open to contact them again later on to find out how life is treating them and re-start the bait.

cheerz--jervis tetch---mad hatter