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Donato
Baiting Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2922
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Posted:
Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:29 pm |
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Slightly off topic...but i'll ask anyway.
I will be moving soon, and leaving my pc (win 98, very old) behind, i understand that the best way to clear the harddrive is to destroy it (literally) is there any other "100% risky free" way to ensure that it's clean.
I want to donate it to the thrift store, is it worth it without a hard drive? Is there anything else i can do with it, that won't involve it sitting in a landfill etc etc... |
_________________ ^^^ damn tree hugging hippy. -imike
Your are a complete ASSHOLE!! Dont you dare mail me again BASTARD!!!-george harrison
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<i><b>Free Pastor Frank!!!</b></i> |
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Roycropper
Baiting Guru
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 7992
Location: Luxury Coffin
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Posted:
Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:47 pm |
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If you don't want to use a hammer, try this:
http://www.kremlinencrypt.com/securedelete.htm
There is a free evaluation version.
Quote: |
Deleting a file by dragging it to the Trash (Mac OS) or Recycle Bin or typing 'del' at the command prompt (Windows) does not actually remove the contents of the file from your hard drive. Your operating systems simply flags it to be overwritten in the future. If there is little disk acscess, the contents of these files can remain, unchanged, on your hard drives for extremely long times and available to anyone with a low-level disk utility.
But when you drag your top-secret document to the Kremlin Secure Delete (Recycle Bin), it's just not flagged to be overwritten, it's gone forever. Kremlin overwrites your documents with a variation of the Department of Defense standard, writing zeros, ones, and a pseudo-random bit stream and its binary complement a user-specified number of times. |
JMR, if you do get a new computer, you can set up your old hard drive as a 'slave', there are little jumpers at the back that let you set this. Your new HDD is the 'master'. You can now copy one to the other. I had to do this another time my PC died. |
_________________ the European Union has bounced on our freckles
COULD YOU IMAGINE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN I WENT TO THE BANK
our Agent is Completely broke, pocketless and stranded
I WLL SEND AN AFRICA WITCH TO ATTACH YOU BASTARD
You go die like bird
i started shouting HALLELUJAGOBBLE but none of them notice me immediately police arrested me due to the shouting
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MY FRIEND ALEX WAS DETAINED IN POLICE STATION
I am not happy due to the question i answered at money office. Let me tell you do not play with me ok.
x4 6Yrs x6 |
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Dirteh Sanchez
Elite Baiter
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 1470
Location: Under Parliament somewhere...
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Posted:
Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:01 pm |
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Regarding the HDD.
Why not just FDISK it?
Simple method to use is this
Use DELPART to delete all and any existing partitions.
Use FDISK to create new partitions (eg create two partitions on drive)
Format Partitions.
Use DELPART again to delete partitions
Now either FDISK and create new partition (if you are feeling helpful) or just leave unpartitioned.
Personally, I suggest creating a single partition and then leave un formatted. Also, I suggest NOT giving it to a charity shop, if you want to give it away to a charity, find one that will re-use it after THEY have cleared it to DOD standards. |
_________________ Back and kicking bottom...
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Connie L. Gus
Moderator
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 7243
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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Posted:
Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:14 pm |
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^^^The problem is that information can still be recovered. There's shareware out there that will overwrite 7 times with one's and zero's. I've been told that gets it. I take the HDD out and then whack it will a hammer.
All the rest go to the thrift store. |
_________________ x8
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-a few,
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Dirteh Sanchez
Elite Baiter
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 1470
Location: Under Parliament somewhere...
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Posted:
Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:29 pm |
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^^^
Have to agree, if ANY usefull data is on HDD at all, either hammer it or drill it. |
_________________ Back and kicking bottom...
________________________
Killed Scammer Banks >200 (gave up counting longgggggg ago.) x5 x2
_______________________________________ |
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Scam Patroller
Baiting Guru
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 11857
Location: UK
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Posted:
Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:39 pm |
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Seven of Nine
Baiting Guru
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 2147
Location: Somewhere in time.
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:38 am |
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DrWho
Baiting Guru
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Where ever I go, there I am
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:33 am |
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Split from computer power loss thread.
The hard drive manufactures have utilities to do a low level format of the drive. It writes zeros to the drive. Do that twice if you really are worried but someone would have to spend a couple hundred dollars to a thousand to recover data purposely, securely erased. I think that the CIA recommends 5 times. But they have more secure information than you will ever have. And just like IPs, there is a point where it becomes silly to thermite a hard drive. You run more personal risk destroying the drive that the risk of someone setting out to find your info. |
_________________ "i think you people do not know whom you are talking of,i am not in any terrorist organization or planning any such of terrorist activities."
"i am not a terrorist and your america cia cna also investigate me."
"i am not a terrorist.send the shit stuff and let me get it fillied."
x12
"To Serve Man"
Last edited by DrWho on Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kleindoofy
*** BANNED ***
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6248
Location: Europe
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:56 am |
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Pastor Frank
Baiting Guru
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 12237
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:00 am |
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The best option has already been mentioned, a hammer.
This is a program that I have used to erase free space on a working HD. (Not that I have anything to hide)
http://www.tolvanen.com/eraser/
It is freeware and clean (void of spyware, et al) |
_________________ "Father Juan are sure that you are man of God,because your behaviors showed you as unbeliever" -Mary R |
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Reverend Bondi Cigars
Master Baiter
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 202
Location: Lake of Fire
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:09 am |
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If you're severely paranoid, it's only really necessary to destroy the platter(s) which is where info is actually stored. And it's only about 1% of the mass of the drive; much easier to destroy than the whole drive. What I do is open the drive and remove the platter, then reduce it to nothing with a bench grinder. Takes about a minute. Much faster than trying to do a software wipe, and no chemicals involved. |
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Seven of Nine
Baiting Guru
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 2147
Location: Somewhere in time.
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:23 am |
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@DrWho. Admittedly, I posted the thermite method with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
I'll happily use a mechanical method again on a dead hdd and apply a 7 pass overwrite on a drive that is destined to be recycled. I'm more inclined to keep my older drives and recycle them as portable storage.
EDIT: My local tech college accepts donations of older computer (and other electronic) equipment for training purposes.
Soldering students benefit by being able to practice various repair techniques on real world pcbs and discover the joys of smd work. The IT wannabes are able to learn the basics of computer construction, maintenance and repair at minimal cost to the college. |
_________________ x7 x27 x2 x2
100% risky free donation modality
Last edited by Seven of Nine on Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dart
Master Baiter
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 186
Location: GA
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:17 am |
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Metal office trash can.
Lighter fluid.
Match.
Fun for the whole family!
Alternately, the cheapo way that takes time but costs nothing. Delete everything but .dll files on the HD. Copy and paste the .dll's until the hard drive is full.
Then format normally. |
_________________ Several fake banks irritated.
I'm not so much a vampire as a mosquito. |
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IP Freely
Master of Master Baiters
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 540
Location: I'm getting my bunny back.
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:24 am |
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I like the platters. They're shiny, and they work well enough as mirrors. I have on my desk a platter that I use as a mirror from time to time. Taking it apart FTW!
Still, a simple data-wiper is your best option. Find something that conforms/exceeds to DOJ standards (US) and you should be fine.
If your new computer has the same interface type, you can just hook it up as a second HD, and scramble it a half-dozen times, then format. Presto, done. |
_________________ ( x8 ) This is fun!
please i want you to stop writting me,i beg you in the name of the lord Jesus christ. |
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DrWho
Baiting Guru
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Where ever I go, there I am
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:48 am |
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Quote: |
I want to donate it to the thrift store, is it worth it without a hard drive? Is there anything else i can do with it, that won't involve it sitting in a landfill etc etc... |
This was the original question. He didn't ask how to destroy a hard drive, he asked if he could safely erase the info off it.
There is no point destroying it. Just erase it by write over it a few times. Deleting partitions and running FDISK will make the data unreadable to a regular program by deleting the FAT but the bits are still on the disk in their correct order. Writing over them will scramble the info to make it harder to recover. That is why low level formating is the easiest.
Yes, I know the thermite was a joke. But it still is not necessary to take the drive apart and drill holes in it or find a grinder or copying and pasting dll files. A commercial wiping program will do that more efficiently. Use a free one.
The type of data extraction you all are worried about after wiping a disk takes specialized equipment and knowledge. Not the kind a person who goes to the thrift store would have sitting around. |
_________________ "i think you people do not know whom you are talking of,i am not in any terrorist organization or planning any such of terrorist activities."
"i am not a terrorist and your america cia cna also investigate me."
"i am not a terrorist.send the shit stuff and let me get it fillied."
x12
"To Serve Man" |
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hippo
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 5
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:20 am |
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DrWho wrote: |
The type of data extraction you all are worried about after wiping a disk takes specialized equipment and knowledge. Not the kind a person who goes to the thrift store would have sitting around. |
Are you saying that it's possible to recover data even if you have erased a drive and filled it with 1s? I know it's easy to recover from a FAT-error, I even did that myself by finding the safety copy of the FAT stored on the other side of the HDD. But I thought filling the drive with bits would actually erase the information.
Not that I have anything to hide... |
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SeiveD
Hello I'm New here!
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:43 am |
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Well, thought I'd show another program for erasing hard disks.. Darik's boot and nuke(I didn't see it mentioned above). http://dban.sf.net 100% free.
Slightly unrelated but...
I have a hard drive that failed on me some time ago (my first and only hard disk failure), and the platters are no longer shiny... I'll try some simple green or something before grinding them into dust. |
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Rodus
Baiting Guru
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 3685
Location: Back under the cold shower
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:50 am |
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The only way to 100% erase a hard drive is total destruction, even if you burn it data can still be retrived. Stick it in an industrial incinerator for 100% risky free erasing |
_________________ I will kiss you romance u,suck and penetrate u - Williams Muyeke
now am as poor as a church rat - Lou1s Mar1on
I AM FINANCIALLY DEAD RIGHT AWAY - Louis in Accra
u can keep sending money to Gomer and leave me alone - Agent Smith cracks up
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x23 |
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thud419
Baiting Guru
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 3193
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:10 am |
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It is theoretically possible to recover the contents of a disk after it has been overwritten. If I understand correctly, it has been demonstrated in a lab environment, but no data recovery firms are advertising that they can do it. Who knows what the secret government labs can do.
The method relies on the head positioning being slightly inaccurate, so the new data is written in a slightly different position to the old data. Recovery of that data can not be done just by plugging the drive into a new computer. At the very least you would need to use your own PCB in place of the one on the drive, if not take the platters out and use your own read-heads.
Overwriting it many times means that you will tend to cover up all the old data. Of course nothing random is certain, so you just have to overwrite it a lot and hope.
I am fairly sure low-level-formatting has not done an actual low-level format for over a decade. The drives are formatted at the factory, have data stored on them, and actually wouldn't work if they were reformatted to that extent. So I wouldn't be certain that it wrote to every block, and it only counts as a single overwrite anyway.
If you need National-Security-type safety then mechanical destruction is the only method. Overwriting it many times gives 99.99% security against any non-magical methods of accessing the deleted data. Overwriting it once will stop anyone without a data recovery laboratory. Formatting it, FDisking it or deleting all the files is totally useless.
If you are going to over-write it, then use an overwriting program; just copying files will leave some data on the disk, even if it's just the names of files, but it may include some of their contents. If, for example, you copy a DLL several times, then that DLL is not going to fill up an exact number of blocks on the disk; the last block is going to be only partially written. Depending on the various factors, there may be old data still in that block.
Any program that doesn't have to write to every byte on the disk, has probably been optimised not to, since we like our computers to run fast.
Since you need to use a specialist program in order to be sure you are writing to every byte on the disk, you may as well overwrite it multiple times. |
_________________ Click here to feel warm and cozy.
I did not f**k your wife in any way -- Nike Akanbi
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Donato
Baiting Guru
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2922
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:16 am |
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@Dr Who
Thanks for the split-i didn't think i'd get that many answers!!!
Thanks to all the rest of you for your answers. |
_________________ ^^^ damn tree hugging hippy. -imike
Your are a complete ASSHOLE!! Dont you dare mail me again BASTARD!!!-george harrison
- lots
<i><b>Free Pastor Frank!!!</b></i> |
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DrWho
Baiting Guru
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 5486
Location: Where ever I go, there I am
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Posted:
Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:15 am |
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My understanding is that there is always a ghost image even if you write over the data. The more times you write over it the more ghost images you have and the less easy it is to find the original ghost image you want. Obviously, you have to read the magnetic particles and translate those into 1's and 0's. Here is what the US government recommends.
Quote: |
The government standard (DoD 5220.22-M ), considered a medium security level, specifies three iterations to completely overwrite a hard drive six times. Each iteration makes two write-passes over the entire drive; the first pass inscribes ones (1) over the drive surface and the second inscribes zeros (0) onto the surface. After the third iteration, a government designated code of 246 is written across the drive, then it is verified by a final pass that uses a read-verify process. |
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_________________ "i think you people do not know whom you are talking of,i am not in any terrorist organization or planning any such of terrorist activities."
"i am not a terrorist and your america cia cna also investigate me."
"i am not a terrorist.send the shit stuff and let me get it fillied."
x12
"To Serve Man" |
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Ivor Grimey Colon
"Trophy slut"
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1338
Location: England
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Posted:
Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:34 am |
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maztuhblastah
Disposable Ensign
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 1432
Location: Far, far from home.
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Posted:
Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:30 am |
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DBAN is good if you have the time. (But a really talented computer forensics expert has a chance of recovering data from even a 37-pass overwrite.)
If you need to destroy info quickly (and/or be 100% sure it's gone), you should physically destroy the platters.
I do not recommend thermite, although I have used it before. It is tricky to safely ignite, and will completely melt every piece of metal it comes in contact with. If you don't know what you're doing, you will be in serious danger. Of course if you happen to have a background in chemistry, and you need to destroy a drive, thermite is a fun and effective way...
I'd just grind the platters to nothing with a bench grinder, or find some other way of destroying them, if you require that the data be completely unrecoverable. |
_________________ <i><b>As of 2007, I have retired from all baiting and baiting-related activities. I will be around occasionally until June of 2007, at which point this account will no longer be monitored.</i></b>
root@usm4n:/ # cat /var/log/kills.log
Banks: 26 HYIP/Misc: 23 Total: 49
x 9 x 7 x 2 x 2 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 22
<b>--._.->solidinvestment.com -- rest in pieces!<-._.--</b> |
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