Poverty is not fuelling 419 fraud in nigeria

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Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 11:49 pm

Illegal is illegal. No excuses there. I understand the problems there in CA and I believe that every LEGAL immigrant would support eradicating illegal immigration to a greater degree than the average citizen. Illegal immigration MUST be stopped because it is unregulated. Someone gets hurt when no one is paying attention to this stuff.

I am an immigrant. I contribute to my society immeasurably. I pay probably 10 times the average amount of taxes and am directly responsible for the employment of many citizens. I can not vote and I will not get a national pension even though I am obligated to pay into that system. THAT SUCKS!! I protect and nurture this society and its people in numerous ways. They are lucky to have me, and believe me they know it.

Saying that gives me a nice feeling.

Of course im emigration is necessary to distribute skills and people with different backgrounds and needs. To do so illegally is just wrong by definition. I can't help anyone's arguments there. Rolling Eyes

I think someone thinks I am an idiot though:

Quote:

I also think that many 419er's are part of some bastardized form of a "Prosperity Gospel" which says that God wants you to have all of the good things of life here on Earth right now. This gospel of greed swept America beginning in the 1980's with ministers such as Frederic Price, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, and the other, "Confess it and Possess it" teachers. These are just really materialistic Christians who ignore Jesus' saying that,

BTW, the eye of the needle scripture reference is interesting because it cites

Quote:

THE LOVE OF MONEY

, which ... rightfully... puts money-seeking evangelists in the same category of mugus.

Will Bill Gates go to hell? Question

I must say that I am NOT a Kenneth Copeland kind of guy. Maybe I am wrong in characterizing JDog's comments, but I don't put much stock in those types of "religious games". Opiate of the masses? you bet! I think it is funny the way that JDog and others satirize... and satyrize... religious symbols. I think we agree on all of the important points.

Nevertheless, I won't give up on my responsibility to try to make my community and my world a better place while I can. I invoke KOMSOMOL, who believes he "hardly exists" as a man who is making a difference. Does he believe in God? Maybe... but he certainly must have faith that he is doing something important. He is not being rewarded in any other way for his service. Faith and religion, which allows the exploration of faith, are important tools of civilization. Painting all religion and belief with the rubric of Kenneth Copeland does not acknowledge their (R and B's) service to us, or ours to them.

Quote:

In our society, anybody can be happy and successful by following the rules. I want to protect those rules and that system because I don't see a better alternative for myself or anyone else, really.

I chose

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successful and happy

very carefully. I did not say rich and I did not say ecstatic. I also said

Quote:

can

. Kenneth Copeland might use the absolutes and superlatives, but I won't. Anyone can enjoy the human experience. There are many ways to enjoy life. Being an immigrant is a great adventure for me. Slamming scammers is fun and free. I wish there were time enough for love Wink

.

Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 12:00 am

I_Prefer_Anonymity wrote:

Something missing in this story? Does this nearly anecdotal news item really help us evaluate the costs and benefits of illegal immigrants or once again does it just serve to fool us into thinking we are actually pampering illegal immigrants and in return they act as leeches

See for yourself: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1821557.stm

You may as well take a look at this while you're at it: http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/8190096?source=Evening%20Standard

Guest

I'll follow action man's advice and declare I've stated my opinions and read other people's responses. Now I'll move on.

Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:08 am

Wrong is wrong is wrong...there is no way to make a wrong into a right.

Guest

Biff Pile-On wrote:

Wrong is wrong is wrong...there is no way to make a wrong into a right.

I didn't even try squeezing a last word. Rolling Eyes

Or do you not agree to just settle?

Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:15 am

Not sure I can reconcile things here, but you have to admit that there are gains from immigration. Immigration is a privilege conferred by the host country that must be earned and approved. Any gains from illegal immigration are really beside the point. The host country in this case has not sanctioned the immigration.

A woman sending three kids to school is, of course, not going to be contributing 45k per year to educate them BUT BUT BUT

if those kids use that education more efficiently than the natives (which is USUALLY the case, btw) then they are more likely to give society a return on that investment.

if immigrants have more children who then grow up to support the system (which is also usually the case) then you, Biff, have an increased likelihood of having your social security paid by a productive worker. You might also get someone to change your diapers in about 40 years.

if those immigrants get through the educational system AND THEN LEAVE to go back to Mexico, you are still better off because they will be able to better stabilize that system and prevent future undesireable immigration.

I know of a lot of Orange County families who have maids from Mexico and Guatemala. Some are legal and some aren't. Illegal immigration keeps wages down in California, so I know that a lot of "powers that be" like the situation as it is. I don't... and it is not always a rosy situation for the immigrant either. I recommend getting very tough on illegal immigration as a measure to support legal immigration.

Finally, why not tell you a little about Japan? Every OECD country has an aging population with a large social welfare establishment. It is a crisis in Japan. Population growth is zero or slightly negative, depending on the year. Let's face it, if they just open the gates, they will get Marielitas, so the Japanese just bite their nails and hope that educated or at least... decent... foreigners will enter the country and have kids soon ... lots of kids.... because their schools will shut down without them and their pediatric medical system will grind to a halt. Household formation rates are already falling, so no one is buying furniture or durable goods. Real estate values are falling....

so... you know... California.... wrong is wrong... but your glass is half full, not half empty. There will be dividends in the long run.

Whaddaya think?

Incidentally, did you know that many "American" soldiers fighting with US forces in Iraq are not US citizens? Food for thought. A few more people who love America is appreciated a little more nowadays...

Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:19 am

One thing is certain -- we spend a lot more time debating the ethics of scambaiting than the Lads do mulling over the ethics of scamming in the first place.

Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 7:42 am

I agree wholeheartedly. Let's face it guys... half of these threads get started by tourists or lurking mugus. They are designed to waste OUR time and distract us. We all agree basically... so let's go have fun! Last one in the pool is a rotten mugu!!! Laughing

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