Morality

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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:30 pm

I am a baiter of my own free will and choice and it is my intention to bait seriously and hard to create real damage, mainly of a psychological nature, actual loss and hindrance where possible, but where do you draw the line, and where do you show compassion, if at all ?

This is a question I must answer for myself, but it is an intersting moral dilemma that all baiters may have to face at some time.

My main Mugu - I know as Mr Tooty Frooty is an amiable fool. I took him way of script ages ago and neither of us recall what his scam was. He is lovesick like a puppy and is there to do my bidding. My first mugu to be under my total control.

Recently I got a sharp change of direction and a preposterous story about a fire in which $7.500 of his cash got burned up. Clearly tring to get a cash scam back in play. Is this a sign of an uga's intervention ? Within 24 hours I got a short terse message that he was sick and going to hospital, and today this came.

Quote:

Dear sister Luddy,

How are you? I hope you are fine? Thanks are to GOD.

My big brother Tututi directs me to send you this mail. I printed you message to him and he read it and ask me to thank you and for your consign on what that happen to us. But we strongly believe in the almighty Father, he will take control. Tutu is getting ok, but his DOCTOR told us that he need rest and by his grace he will be discharge later today ok.

Tututi tell us much about you and we are very happy for that. He LOVES you and I pray we shall all met as he made us to understand. As soon as he is discharge today he will get back to you ok.
I am JANET GARET XXXXXX,I am 11 years old.

GOD blesses you.

Ms.janet garet xxxxx

If this is a scam it's way beyond my mugu's capacity to work out, and if this is true I feel some sensitivity at his situation. Of course I am a little concerned at the claimed source of this letter, as I don't think 11 year old's write in that manner.

Though I wouldn't wish to make a sick person suffer, I take the view that as long as his intent is to scam me, he is fair game, and I would only relent if he 'confesses' to me, but even then, there is no easy way out, as I am not what he thinks I am - a Russian fashion model.

I will make my own decision, but it's interesting to consider - where do you draw the line ? - is there a line to be drawn at all ? I just offer it for debate. I think I will end up damaging this mugu whichever way it turns out, and I may feel bad about it, but the die was cast when he sent his first scam mail.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:37 pm

There are a million of these morality posts in the forums.

As far as it goes for me, I have no problem getting these guys in sticky situations. Do I have a problem sending a lad to the middle of the desert without water? Nope. They go there by their own will. No one makes them. Does anyone MAKE them tattoo themselves? Nope. They do it be their own will.

So, if these people are choosing to do these things, then let them. But you set your limit, then work by that. After you see more and more of these guys, rest assured that your limit will change.

As far as a lad coming clean� that is not uncommon. But, I can assure you that he will come clean and then ask for money. I swear by that.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:41 pm

These guys are heartless thieves that will say anything to get a few bucks out of people. Do not believe a single word that he is saying. He is lying to you.

Bait this guy to death if you can. He has free-will just like anyone else. If he decides to walk into a minefield, that's his problem, not yours.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:00 pm

They will say anything to get your money, tell him you'll pay him the cash if he agrees to meet you in Somalia for it.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:02 pm

Don't ever feel sorry for these guys. They feel no similar guilt about taking innocent victims for everything they have.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:09 pm

I'm not trying to undermine the baiting cause. I think it's just that he's the first I have had under such control and I have a tiny feeling of concern at the power in my hands. Looking for reassurance from the more experienced baiters I guess.

The way it's going this mugu's brain will be a mess by the time I've finished, but he started a scam and I started a fairy story - so it can't end happily.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:11 pm

GomerPyle wrote:

... I wouldn't wish to make a sick person suffer ...

If you told him you only pay money to people who murder their own grandmother, he'd send you a pick of an old lady's corpse.

These thieves only change their stories to try to get your money from a different angle. This happens frequently to baiters simply because baiters never pay anything.

You may also have been taken over by his boss (oga). The higher up you climb in the lad hierarchy, the better the English gets.

Btw, the hospital trick is one they also use on real victims. Almost every lad has to go to the hospital at some time during a scam. The bill is usually about $200 and he wants you to pay it. Has he lost his cell phone yet? He will.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:11 pm

The boundaries I impose on myself don't have anything to do with feeling sorry for the lads. It has to do with legal boundaries and ethical considerations. For instance, I don't cash bait and I don't art bait, since I feel uncomfortable involving a real artist in the bait. Pictures, handwriting, anything the lad can supply himself is fine with me. Other baiters here feel different and that is exactly what I like about Eater. We all have our own boundatries and are welcome to have them. What you feel (un)comfortable with is a question only you can answer.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:15 pm

kleindoofy wrote:

The bill is usually about $200.

That's also the cost of having 2 T-shirts printed up. Smile

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:15 pm

What everyone else said. Lying is an integral part of what lads do. If they think a lie will work on you, no matter what it is they'll try it. They'll claim to be reformed, dying, about to be killed, anything to try to con money out of a victim. Don't believe a word they say. You'll find the longer someone's been baiting the less likely they believe the scammer's stories, and with very good reason. We KNOW the lies they'll spin from experience.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:16 pm

Theses guys ARE sick people but still should be made to suffer. I would quite happily send one to the most dangerous, war torn area on the planet if they would go. As everyone else has said they do it of their own free will, guilt is wasted on these scumbags. Twisted Evil

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:24 pm

would they feel bad about making you sell your house to get money for them? id say about 98% wouldnt bat an eyelid at taking you for every cent youre worth.
its important to remember that your dealing with professional liars when baiting, they wont get payed by being truthful. do what youre comfortible though. Smile

also, have a look at the "how low will lads go?" link in my sig. its worth a read.

Baiting Guru Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 5905

There are a lot of people suffering in African countries but the African people who need aid cannot afford to go to Internet Cafes. If you want to help the truly needy in Africa give your money to one of the many fine legitimate charities that work in this area.

419 scammers as already pointed out will tell any lie they think they need to tell you to get money. Just think if you sent money to a scammer where it could end up? Human trafficking, drug trafficking (etc)

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:12 pm

Okies - I got the message and will do what's necessary.

He's a scammer and I'm a baiter. Put a fox and a chicken in a pen together and there will only ever be one result. He's not spat out his scam yet, so I'll jump in first with my script that leads to a wedding in Ghana.

Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:04 pm

Quote:

If decides to walk into a minefield, that's his problem, not yours.

That gives me a great idea for a safari Twisted Evil

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:03 am

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am a baiter of my own free will and choice and it is my intention to bait seriously and hard to create real damage, mainly of a psychological nature, actual loss and hindrance where possible, but where do you draw the line, and where do you show compassion, if at all ?

That's how I bait too. If it's compassion you want to show, try some certain Mods. Laughing

That's a joke, by the way. Otherwise, go after the scammers, all guns blazing. Zero compassion is my Mantra.
(runs away, and very fast, in fear of impending repurcussions for comments meant in a simply humerous way).

419Eater is my life Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 476

I give them the mercy and compassion that they would show me.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:16 am

Joe, You better run fast>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wink

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:28 am

As far as running, I can't, with the fake hips, so , I guess i'm screwed. Getting out of bed is a pain in the ass most days. Goodnight!

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:33 am

A lad's default setting is "Liar". It's what they do for a living and they know exactly which buttons to press. If you are baiting as a naive Russian babe he will play the sympathy card and give you The Hospital Lie. If you bait as a slightly confused elderly man he will give you The 2 Day Deadline Lie. Assume everything he tells you is a lie and you won't be bothered by any nagging doubts about 'morality' because scammers certainly don't.

Tell your lad that you have to go into hospital for a few weeks and cease all contact and see how long he sticks around to see how the love of his life is doing.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:44 am

All of the responses I read were good, and the only thing I can add is suggesting that you (re)read the Ethics of Scambaiting article.

http://www.419eater.com/html/ethics.htm

419Eater is my life Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 356

I'm a very new baiter and haven't hooked anyone yet, but I'd stop short of having them send me a physical item of actual monetary value. Don't get me wrong - I thought it was awesome when Shiver scored a carving of his own head - but it seems a little far into illegal territory for my personal comfort.

I wouldn't have a safe way for them to send me things to begin with, though, so it's strictly hypothetical anyway.

Concerning cruelty, though, I expect to have no hang-ups. Smile

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:50 am

I got his request in shortly after - $700. This is one dumb and incompetent scammer.

Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:50 am

I'm going to break the mould slightly here...

There was one occasion, years ago, I dropped a bait because of a feeling of guilt. I got a photo trophy from a scammer and the 'model' in the photo was no older than 14 and had a look of genuine fear in his eyes. I'm fairly certain that the person in the photo was not the scammer but it was possible, it made me feel deeply uncomfortable. As a result I no longer go for photo trophies.

...I certainly don't feel the slightest bit of pity for the scammers but I do feel sorry for any children they may involve (even if they do know what's going on)

419Eater Admin Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 7469

Also remember that scammers lie for a living. Whilst you may spend a few hours a week telling porkies to these people, they make their entire living from it 24/7/365. Many do it so much that they sometimes believe the crap they spout themselves!