Did baiting really put a dent in 419?

By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics and access other forums reserved for members. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today by clicking here.

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:52 am

Quote:

Or maybe even mass mailing all of the baiting sites URLs to lads. Reading them will surely consume much of lad's time.

Most lads are unaware of baiting sites and its better that way, a lot of people here straight bait, which means that they dont write witty emails to the scammer or ask for trophies, we just frustrate the hell out of them.
A good way to stop scammers for good would be to introduce fee paying email accounts across the board. Then it would be a just a simple step of getting those email addresses shut down. If it happens often enough and say even $5 an account lads who earn that much in a week if they were doing an honest job would soon realise the game is up.

Not quite a Newb Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 41

That's a pretty good point, Frank.

After the MSN/PA email project there was a signifigant decrease in lads using pay for email addy's, and switching back to the free email servers- I don't think it would completely stop it, though.

We report and get suspended fake sites domains all the time, most of which cost the lad money- this doesn't stop them from paying for another site and moving the faker, unfortunately.

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:35 am

frankireland wrote:

Most lads are unaware of baiting sites

I'm not so sure about that Frank, I've frequently had replies from lads accusing me of being "one of those 419eaters" or "a scamoramer"

I think they know, they just don't care. A couple of real victims a year is really all they need, they are quite happy to sit through bait after bait until they get the one that's real...and sadly the stats show that it WILL happen.

Does our actions make a dent? Probably, but realistically, it's a very small one.

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:01 am

TS

Quote:

Nanny, nanny, poo-poo head

I just gotta say you have a loverly way with words Smile

Baiting Guru Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3193

Can I stop a lad scamming? No.
Can I make his life a little less happy? Yes.
Can I divert his attention from a victim who will pay? Yes.
Can I make him careful enough that he will drop a real victim? Yes.
Can I de-educate him so he is less likely to fool a victim? Yes.
Can I educate potential victims so they do not fall for a scam? Yes.
Can I collect evidence and pass it on to Law Enforcement? Yes.

Some websites, such as scampatrol and fraudwatchers, apply themselves to protecting the victims. Law Enforcement on the ground (at least some of them, and increasing) apply themselves to bringing the scammer to justice and stopping them.

The interface between the scammer and the victim communities is the point where the least amount of effort causes the greatest amount of disruption. It is also the point where my personal skills may be applied to greatest efffect and where I gain greatest enjoyment. However it is not the point where either scammers can be effectively stopped or victims can be effectively supported.

The fact that the scammers do not understand us is our greatest strength. You cannot effectively fight a foe that you do not understand. We will not gain anything by discarding that advantage.

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:33 am

if you want a good example of how baiting has put the wind up the lads, email a bunch of phonelads from gmail. you wont get many replies.

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:41 am

Well it's really funny how many converts to a new religion happen during a bait.
We are saving souls, no doubt about that Smile

Baiting Guru Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 5905

Shadow wrote:

there are like 500 000 scamming lads out there by the very least estimation; and like maybe 5 000 active baiters max (likely much less than that).

It is impossible to have any kind of reliable figures for the number of scammers or baiters. Some people out there can bait for years totally unaware that there are scambaiting communities. Sometimes newcomers to this site come on saying things like "I've been doing this kind of thing for years didn't realise others were doing it too. These people obviously do not show up on the figures. Also 419 Eater is not the only scambaiting community in cyber space there is also The Scambaiter dot com.

Quote:

And the last question. Wouldn't you guys be very upset if all of your lads suddenly get arrested and none of them are out there anymore to have fun with? Very Happy

Interesting theoretical question Smile

but as Brian Wizard once pointed out on a radio interview with the BBC 419 is an industry in Nigeria and as such if today the EFCC arrested every 419 scammer out there they would all be replaced by tomorrow morning.

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jan 2007 Posts: 2922

A journey (safari) of a thousand miles begins with a single step...

From little acorns, mighty oaks...

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:40 pm

I've been reading this site for quite awhile and I've also visted several sites created for the victims of this crime. Their stories are really heartbreaking. These scammers ruin futures, cause divorces and wreak havoc in their wakes. Reading some of the stories of people whose lives have been ruined just broke my heart.

Even if you are only making a tiny dent in the big picture of 419 scammers and the like....if this site and those like it help people to stop even one of the scammers from ruining the life of a potential victim, then it is well worth it. I applaud all of you.

And if you have a little fun along the way, good for you! Your ultimate service of helping to become a speedbump in the scammers path is a noble cause. And if you don't believe me, just ask someone who is trying to recover from being scammed. ( I was almost in that group myself and still have $9,500.00 in fake MO's to prove it.) Good job...all of you.

Scamp

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:05 pm

Can we stop scammers? Definately not.
Why the heck are you spending time? Just because i'd love to make some lad feel so miserable that perhaps his emotions tell others around him that there is a darned big problem if you hit the wrong guy. It's like smoking illegal stuff ; you can't stop the real big fish, as there's too much to gain, but you can make the wannabees scared by sometimes hitting on them, at random, and making them a showcase to the rest. I mean, a lad going on one of YWs safaris might as well scare half the neighbourhood, as that lad invested quite a lot, and got zippo in return. Remember that they hang to status even more than we do, so if you hit their status, you got em. Just my opinion, get yours and get some scammers down Wink

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:12 pm

As a well known supermarket says - every little helps!! I feel like i'm doing my bit, and having great fun messing with them at the same time. I'm sure that if I am wasting at least one scammer for ten minutes a day, its not time spent on a real 'person' Laughing

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:49 pm

"We'd bait each other. It's in the blood."

I used to bait co-workers, now I found this. Now I don't wory about my career being thrown under a bus because someone didn't understand my humor.

Master Baiter Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 101

I bait because, I enjoy confusing the heck out of them and to waste their time and money. I do believe, I can put a dent in 419 Scammers because, any time wasted on their part has hopefully spoiled another scam in the meantime. I might be able to save a few from losing any money at all. That makes it worth all the time I spend on 419 Eaters and tons of emails going back and forth between me and these parasites. I have a friend who lost everything to these parasites. Home, 60 some odd acres of land, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, if I can toy with them for weeks on end, keeping them busy, I'm all for it. Yes, it will be impossible to get rid of the scammers until everyone in the world is up-to-date on these scams, there will be many who are persuaded to send them money. I wish I could alert everyone in the world. NO, DO NOT SEND THEM ANY MONEY. But, how would this be done? I think by, sites like 419 Eaters and other sites like this one, being on the Internet that, alot of people have been saved from ruin, just by reading the different ways the scammers are trying to get money from everyone. EDUCATION is the key! That in its self is very rewarding to me.

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:57 pm

Quote:

All of what Adam Zapple said

I enjoy baiting for the same reasons, also it's great to work the lads so they'll have no time or inclination to bother anyone again.

I'm sure we are doing good.

Master Baiter Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 233 Location: USA

Shadow,

If even ONE person has benefited from my baiting, then I consider it well worth it.

Are we outnumbered? Of course we are--but for people like me, and--I dare say--most of the folks here, that just makes the challenge even MORE irresistable.

If scamming stopped totally tomorrow, I'd continue enjoying the company of the folks here on the board, and possibly get in a bit more reading!

Master Baiter Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 143

@John Drake,

My thoughts exactly. If I can help prevent even one person from being scammed, then I have made a difference!

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 13

Thank you all for your most interesting answers.

First of all, I wanted to clarify that I'm not questioning your community's methods, and I understand perfectly that baiting is a free service donated to the greater benefit of human race. And yes, I totally agree that at least one person saved from scammers will be very well worth it.

The reasoning behind me starting this thread was that after the initial fascination with the concept of reverse scamming and exhausting scammers logistically, I started to realize that there's not enough baiters to really tie a noticable amount of scammers (say 10% of them). So I grew interested to research a little bit deeper into the theory of baiting and see if there are maybe ways to increase the effectiveness of baiting. Not that it was highly necessary because things are fine as it is. And I surely do not expect miraculous findings that will save the world from scam today.

But still, those of you who're also interested in discussing theoretical questions, are more than welcome to keep sharing your views of broader picture of things.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:34 am

scammers and scamming exist everywhere from being charged X amount for a mug of coffee to our Lads, everyone has been scammed at some stage in their lives, i had no idea that internet scamming was gaining in popularity, for a long time i thought it was the willy bigger mails that was getting people riled up, until i got my first 419, it was quite a tragic story being spun out in that mail, fortunately i clicked something wasn`t right, and told the Lad where to go, then more started appearing, so i went in search of a solution and was directed here, what a happy day that was, from shivs letters archives to starting my own, i know i`m going to laugh when i click on this site, it`s not only the laughing that keeps me going, it`s the fact that i`m messing with some potentially dangreous criminals who`d slit your throat as soon as look at you, that gives me that extra buzz, wasting their time and resources is an excellent motivator, i`d really love to know what happens the Lads when it turns out that their mark is a figment of their imagination, and after spending lots of money on doing our bidding Twisted Evil

for some reason i don`t think they get demoted to the windows 95 pentium one pc in the corner with a dunce cap on their heads, i`d say it`s rather brutal "justice" they get, and rightly so, just recently an 82 year old woman in my town got a lotto scam by snail mail, it was identical to one i recieved as an e-mail (loteria Primitiva if anyone else saw it) thankfully she was not fooled, but she was very scared as the mail was addressed directly to her, obviously Lads are getting hold of mailing lists, but i dread to think what would have happened her had she fallen for it.
so in summing up, personally my contribution is messing with the minds, and hopefully the status of these pr1cks, and as has already been stated, if we can rope a lad in, we can stop him from finding a real victim and turn him into the victim instead.

Hello I'm New here! Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 3

I read through this quickly, so I may have missed a few things.

Shadow, have you checked out the work of Scam Patroller on his traveling lads? Those mugus didn't have the ability to bait real victims, I know that several lads from just after /. on have taken some mean acidless trips. The bank kills also keep real victims from getting burned. Add to that the multi-baiters that take on several lads at once.

I think that your estimates are a bit off, and the number of burned lads is higher than you think. Plus the embarassment factor when his friends are looking over his should when he gets slapped about can not help the ego in the least. I also think the number active baiters are far higher than you think, a radio station in Illinois baited a love bait for a long time. Calling at odd Nigerian hours, and just leading him around by the nose. Heck, it could still be going on, but it was a while ago I heard about it.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:31 am

Baiters are just a small force. If there are 1/2 million scammers and we can assume that 10 % of potential victims will respond. We are approx 5,000 baiters and if every baiter takes two mugus, we are saving 10,000 potential victims. That is a great number of potential vicitims that wont fall prey to scammers. The longer we keep the mugu busy, the less time he will have to scam other people.

So baiting is not about getting a trophy like some baiters like to do here.
Its about wasting the time of the mugu.

419Eater Admin Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Posts: 7469

Yes, we are far, far outnumbered, and in reality we are only having a tiny effect on the scammers, but I still think it is a very worthy cause. Unfortunately we have a few ex-members who themselves used to be baiters that get some perverse pleasure in emailing every now and then to tell me baiting is a complete waste of time. These are the same people who gather in little (tiny!) packs and spend their days bitching to each other, and trolling here for no apparent reason or point Confused

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:56 am

TSNerd wrote:

Interesting thread.

Indeed.

Shadow wrote:

.....For example, If all lads had to spend 30 mins a day reading this board ....... Or maybe even mass mailing all of the baiting sites URLs to lads. Reading them will surely consume much of lad's time.

Experience gained over time on this board indicate the lad factor (scammers reading this board) usually is not an issue. It's often obvious (to moderators and admins) within a few posts if a new member is a lad or not. Furthermore, the lads find the concept of baiting rather odd. They can't fathom why we'll spend our time enagaging in email exchanges, when for us, there is no material reward. The lads will (generally) not spend their online time unproductively, perusing baiting sites. For them, it's the lure of filthy lucre. It can hurt them a lot when their bank accounts are reported and the powers that be take action. Laughing

[waves]Hi Shiver[/waves]

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:51 am

This is indeed an interesting discussion, but I think some are concentrating too much on the actual scammers, these people are everywhere and there are far too many of them for baiters to make any real difference. But where baiters & people like baiters make a difference is informing & educating others, using funny stories, serious stories & downright bizarre stories, I've lost count of the amount of people I've entertained telling people about YeahWhatevers safaris & numerous other funny baits. These people then in turn tell others - some become interested some don't.
I can't speak for other places, but since Shivers recent media exposure our national TV has been running advertisements about 419 scams, advance fee fraud and internet lottery wins - aimed particularly at older people. Radio shows have covered it & people are now becoming much more aware.
This unfortunately has a side affect, as advance fee becomes less profitable they move their scamming talents into other areas such as credit card fraud (skimming cards, ATM skimming etc) - one plus of this is that authorities tend to act on this more than someone fleeced by an online scam.

Its a huge vicious circle in my opinion - but have many said, one person saved and resulting cascading affect prevented is ample reward.

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:23 am

I agree this is a pretty interesting topic..And as for the original question..

Quote:

Did baiting really put a dent in 419?

Prsonally I reckon it should read DOES and not Did..

Having said that I would categorically say a profound YES..Statistical and number crunching aside, which can never be properly substantiated in anyway and judging by the countless straight baiters out there doing superb jobs..Scammers are kept away from vics on a daily basis..This is a behind the scenes scenario that nobody could ever calculate..

What can be calculated, granted somewhat sketchily, is that this fact is an undeniable fact that is an ongoing daily occurance which cannot be disputed..

Ergo..and it may be on a small scale compared to immense outnumbering by scamers to baiters..But it is having an effect..

e.g
Phone Lad dessimation
Fake site dessimation
Multiple month baits with Lads left in Limbo

I'm only scratching the surface here with baiting success over these parasites with my little post.. Very Happy

Did baiting really put a dent in 419?	View next topic View previous topic